How confident are you in Kyle Turris

[SensNation613]

Am I the only one sees Zack Smith as a potential 3rd line C? I think he's already reached that level playing with guys like Greening and Neil, I could see him being a 30pt guy who's good on draws and plays a tough game. He's also a huge troll and having that element on your team is real good if you ask me. Signing Legwand was smart since we don't know if Zib can play 2nd line minutes but I'd have more than enough confidence in a guy like Smith for a 3rd line role if we didn't sign Leggy and we knew Zib could play top 6.

 

[SlapJack]

Worried more about Zibanejad to be honest. I think Turris is mature enough to handle the role, I'm not sure he'll be significantly better than he was this season, though. 60 points is reasonable.

I'm mostly worried about whether he can replace Spezz on the PP. It was anemic without Spezza last season.

I don't think it was great with Spezza either. One potential positive is that I've always thought Ottawa needed a guy that drove the net on the PP because there was never anyone around to pick up Karlsson's rebounds. From what I've seen of Chiasson, he looks like that type of player.

And that's the funny thing about power plays - you can take the 5 most skilled guys you can find, but it doesn't always work. It's finding that right combination of talents to put out there at once to get that solid unit. It could be something like Stone-Turris-Chiasson with Karlsson-Zibanejad/Hoffman at the points that really clicks. Would have to suffer from a few shorties with that combination though

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I don't think it was great with Spezza either. One potential positive is that I've always thought Ottawa needed a guy that drove the net on the PP because there was never anyone around to pick up Karlsson's rebounds. From what I've seen of Chiasson, he looks like that type of player.

And that's the funny thing about power plays - you can take the 5 most skilled guys you can find, but it doesn't always work. It's finding that right combination of talents to put out there at once to get that solid unit. It could be something like Stone-Turris-Chiasson with Karlsson-Zibanejad/Hoffman at the points that really clicks. Would have to suffer from a few shorties with that combination though

YES! Thank you! God, I thought I was of the few handful that saw this.

I honestly thought our PP was dead. Either with Spezza or without. The few times Spezza didn't play we still generated few chances that just went wide.

Our biggest need was a guy who could and WOULD find his way to the front of the net. For years we've used Michalek and Neil but those guys are either not good at it(michalek) or not skilled enough to do something about it when the puck gets beside him(Neil)

This off-season we brought in 2 very good PP guys who LOVE to drive the net and are very effective at it.

Having guys like Turris/Ryan/Karlsson/MacArthur passing it around and Legwand/Chiasson/Stone infront(or downlow) and Zibanejad/Karlsson with shots... we could have a lethal powerplay next year with multiple looks. Especially if we get one more top end forward or defender.

Legwand, Ryan, Zibanejad and Turris could draw the defenders to the boards(cause they have very good shots from there) and it could open up Karlsson for his beautiful canon. Or Karlsson does it to feed Zibanejad and Turris.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I don't think it was great with Spezza either. One potential positive is that I've always thought Ottawa needed a guy that drove the net on the PP because there was never anyone around to pick up Karlsson's rebounds. From what I've seen of Chiasson, he looks like that type of player.

And that's the funny thing about power plays - you can take the 5 most skilled guys you can find, but it doesn't always work. It's finding that right combination of talents to put out there at once to get that solid unit. It could be something like Stone-Turris-Chiasson with Karlsson-Zibanejad/Hoffman at the points that really clicks. Would have to suffer from a few shorties with that combination though

Agreed.

Seems like powerplays are the hardest thing to master in the NHL. Part of it is the focus on PK units and the amount of focus and practice they get from coaches. Another is hockey rules setup - stop giving the shorthanded team the ability to ice the puck and you'd see a massive change in the effectiveness in powerplays. The big thing, if familiarity. The units that excel are the ones that are together for a few seasons....being able to know where all your mates are without looking around on the ice and doing the PP so often it becomes second nature. Saving that half second here and there creates a lot of prime opportunities.

 

[Alfie#11]

Am I the only one sees Zack Smith as a potential 3rd line C? I think he's already reached that level playing with guys like Greening and Neil, I could see him being a 30pt guy who's good on draws and plays a tough game. He's also a huge troll and having that element on your team is real good if you ask me. Signing Legwand was smart since we don't know if Zib can play 2nd line minutes but I'd have more than enough confidence in a guy like Smith for a 3rd line role if we didn't sign Leggy and we knew Zib could play top 6.

Smith is capable of being a 3rd line centre and is certainly paid like one. If he is just a 4th liner, then he should be dumped.

Smith is inconsistent offensively and takes too many penalties, those are his issues to me. In general though, he is what you can expect from a 3rd line centre.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Smith is capable of being a 3rd line centre and is certainly paid like one. If he is just a 4th liner, then he should be dumped.

Smith is inconsistent offensively and takes too many penalties, those are his issues to me. In general though, he is what you can expect from a 3rd line centre.

Why should he be dumped? He's a great 4th line center and can sub up when need be. A team needs those kinds of players, especially the Sens who are a tad soft down the middle.

Is it because of money? The average salary in the NHL is 2.4 million, its not like SMith is getting way overpaid. Quality 4th line guys earn decent money nowadays.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

And Smith has shown offensive upside

I'd love to see him play with players that can play instead of Neil

 

[Alfie#11]

Why should he be dumped? He's a great 4th line center and can sub up when need be. A team needs those kinds of players, especially the Sens who are a tad soft down the middle.

Is it because of money? The average salary in the NHL is 2.4 million, its not like SMith is getting way overpaid. Quality 4th line guys earn decent money nowadays.

Yes, because of money. On a team with a budget this tight, the depth players should be as close to league minimum as possible to use the limited money on the middle and upper parts of the roster.

On a team with an average budget we may be able to afford a close to average salary on a 4th liner but Ottawa doesn't have an average budget, we are near the bottom.

This has precedence. In the days when the team was competitive despite being very poor, players making too much relative to their role were dumped to use the money elsewhere. Dackell, MacEachern and Bonk were all basically gifted to other teams.

I like Smith and would be happy with him as a 3rd liner. If he's a 4th liner though, time to jettison him.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

So because our depth is good we should get rid of it

That is what you are saying

 

[OD99]

Yes, because of money. On a team with a budget this tight, the depth players should be as close to league minimum as possible to use the limited money on the middle and upper parts of the roster.

On a team with an average budget we may be able to afford a close to average salary on a 4th liner but Ottawa doesn't have an average budget, we are near the bottom.
.

I understand what you are saying and there is merit to this but I don't think Smith is the guy we should be dumping - he can be effective (although the fancy stats might not say that) as he does have some intangibles that the team requires.

It is going to be interesting to see what the team looks like and who gets what ice time...there are way too many players (both forwards and D) than required so some pieces have to be moved one way or another.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Yes, because of money. On a team with a budget this tight, the depth players should be as close to league minimum as possible to use the limited money on the middle and upper parts of the roster.

On a team with an average budget we may be able to afford a close to average salary on a 4th liner but Ottawa doesn't have an average budget, we are near the bottom.

This has precedence. In the days when the team was competitive despite being very poor, players making too much relative to their role were dumped to use the money elsewhere. Dackell, MacEachern and Bonk were all basically gifted to other teams.

I like Smith and would be happy with him as a 3rd liner. If he's a 4th liner though, time to jettison him.

I think Smith is a top-end 4th line C, and from what I understand, you do too. So why get rid of that? If we are all about a balanced attack since we have no 100-point guys up front, we shouldn't be purging our very effective 4C. Sure he can be an average-mediocre 3C, but with the addition of Legwand, Smith should be permanently in the 4C role, because he will excel at it. DEPTH IS GOOD.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I think Smith is a top-end 4th line C, and from what I understand, you do too. So why get rid of that? If we are all about a balanced attack since we have no 100-point guys up front, we shouldn't be purging our very effective 4C. Sure he can be an average-mediocre 3C, but with the addition of Legwand, Smith should be permanently in the 4C role, because he will excel at it. DEPTH IS GOOD.

Especially down the middle. He's one of the more physical forwards on the team, I think he's a great fit on the team. Not sure why anyone wants to get rid of him. Even for a buget team.

 

[Alfie#11]

I think Smith is a top-end 4th line C, and from what I understand, you do too. So why get rid of that? If we are all about a balanced attack since we have no 100-point guys up front, we shouldn't be purging our very effective 4C. Sure he can be an average-mediocre 3C, but with the addition of Legwand, Smith should be permanently in the 4C role, because he will excel at it. DEPTH IS GOOD.

4th line centres play 5-8 minutes a game and make minimal impact. You don't win many games because your 4th line outplayed the other teams 4th line. If Smith doesn't get top 9 ice time, he won't score and his offensive talent is wasted.

Spend the money on the top 9 forwards and top 4 defence. Assemble a collection of kids, bubble players, reclamation projects etc to round out the roster. If you want an example - Andre Benoit. He was a cheap AHL tweener that offered a couple of good years to the Sens and the Avs lately. This is the type of player that effectively rounded out the rosters of the early Sens playoff teams that were very, very budget.

Yes depth is good but top players matter more. If you are a team with resources you can afford veteran depth to go with top talent. This team lacks resources and top talent. Spend the money on the top of the roster on hard to acquire top end pieces. Fill out the roster with cheaper guys. Don't squander what little money is available making the best fourth line in hockey.

Put it this way - you are far morely likely to find a league minimum player that will give you Zack Smith play then you are to find a $3 million guy who will give you Jason Spezza play.

This was the formula for those early Sens teams that people like to reference as a successful team on a budget.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

4th line centres play 5-8 minutes a game and make minimal impact. You don't win many games because your 4th line outplayed the other teams 4th line. If Smith doesn't get top 9 ice time, he won't score and his offensive talent is wasted.

Spend the money on the top 9 forwards and top 4 defence. Assemble a collection of kids, bubble players, reclamation projects etc to round out the roster. If you want an example - Andre Benoit. He was a cheap AHL tweener that offered a couple of good years to the Sens and the Avs lately. This is the type of player that effectively rounded out the rosters of the early Sens playoff teams that were very, very budget.

Yes depth is good but top players matter more. If you are a team with resources you can afford veteran depth to go with top talent. This team lacks resources and top talent. Spend the money on the top of the roster on hard to acquire top end pieces. Fill out the roster with cheaper guys. Don't squander what little money is available making the best fourth line in hockey.

Put it this way - you are far morely likely to find a league minimum player that will give you Zack Smith play then you are to find a $3 million guy who will give you Jason Spezza play.

This was the formula for those early Sens teams that people like to reference as a successful team on a budget.

Who says? And you're missing the point entirely. The Senators don't have the extra 10-12 million it takes to take an ok top 6 and make it a great top 6. (Blame the Greening contract, Phillips contract, whatever. Right now it's moot). However, we can make sure that our team is able to roll 4 decent lines at all times by spending an extra one million on a player like Smith instead of a scrub (he is making 1.7 million this season for crying out loud). One million dollars won't improve the top 6 by any stretch. But having a decent 4th line play 10-12 minutes a game reduces strain on the top 6, and reduces defensive liabilities. None of the 3 minutes o ice time for Kassian garbage. The extra one million is therefore better spent on the 4th line as that million dollars improves the 4th line tremendously vs an extra million to the top 6.

Plus, Smith is full of intangibles like heart, trolling, physicality, flashes of unexpected offense coming from your 4th line, something other teams may not be prepared for. Just has to stop the dummy penalties.

Edit - what you're proposing is load up 2 lines and fill the rest with scrubs. You won't be able to afford to load up a top 9 with our budget. That screams disaster in this league. Shut down the 2 top lines, and we're done for.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Just get Smith away from Neil. Neil is stuck in old-school 4th line thinking that isn't really effective in today's game.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Neil will be fine, Mac just shouldn't be over playing him.

He's fantastic with his role when he's playing manageable minutes.

I agree with Smith, i would like to see him playing in a increased offensive role next year even if it means playing the wing here or there to play with better players.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Neil is 35 which means that we should expect him to get progressively worse: time takes it's toll

He should be the extra forward, end of story

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Neil is 35 which means that we should expect him to get progressively worse: time takes it's toll

He should be the extra forward, end of story

Still very effective at his role even at his age.

 

[pm88]

Still very effective at his role even at his age.

he plays like an idiot most of the time now. offensive game almost non-existent..i wish they got rid of him after this season to be honest.

sounds harsh but the game is a business too. we've got rid of far far more valuable guys before him

 

[Karlsson2Turris*]

Still very effective at his role even at his age.

He is, but he should only play against scrub teams like Toronto. At this stage of his career, he brings down any line he is on. One of the main reasons why GSN was such a fail was that Greening was bad, but also every time Smith got the puck to Neil the play died. He cannot play regularly anymore for us, not a knock on him just age has caught up to him now.

 

[Six Assets]

Neil takes too many dumb/useless penalties, other than that he is ok. You can't expect to much from him, and his leadership is also a plus.

 

[Indrew]

Still very effective at his role even at his age.

Taking dumb penalties and acting like a tough guy with five minutes to go in an out-of-reach game? I bet he could do that until he is 50.

 

[jbeck5]

Taking dumb penalties and acting like a tough guy with five minutes to go in an out-of-reach game? I bet he could do that until he is 50.

This. He kills every play when it touches his stick.

He can't skate.

He's too slow to make big hits anymore.

He takes dumb penalties all the time.

He seems to only do his enforcing at the end of a blowout game we're losing by attacking their soft euros.

 

[pm88]

This. He kills every play when it touches his stick.

He can't skate.

He's too slow to make big hits anymore.

He takes dumb penalties all the time.

He seems to only do his enforcing at the end of a blowout game we're losing by attacking their soft euros.

its embarrassing. They should have sent him packing or traded him away or something. Should have got rid of that bum Phillips too. Yeah I understand they love playing for Ottawa blah blah but they don't exactly do anything productive for our team anymore.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Neil takes too many dumb/useless penalties, other than that he is ok. You can't expect to much from him, and his leadership is also a plus.

Exactly why you keep him around as the extra forward

There's value to having a great extra forward