How concerned are you that if the Lightning win the Cup that Yzerman will leave for Detroit?

Discussion in 'Tampa Bay Lightning' started by JamieG19, May 18, 2018.

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  1. DFC

    DFC Registered User

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    Do GMs often leave cup winning teams because they're gung-ho to rebuild somewhere else?

    I think Yzerman enjoys winning cups too much to go back to rebuilding, wherever it is.

    Someday Vinik will fire him. That's when he might go home, if the circumstances are right. But I don't see why he'd leave at the height of the success he's worked hard to attain, just to go try to do it all over again.
     
  2. BoltsOfAnarchy

    BoltsOfAnarchy Registered User

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    Basically folks, the OP just wants to hear you all say “yeah I could see him leaving for DET” lol. He thinks that that way. It’s what he wants...Other wings fans think it too clearly, they’re just trying to live out a dream that probably won’t come true. (No offense)

    Just humor him so he’ll quit asking and trying to prove his narrative.
     
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  3. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Still Drej

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    It happens fairly often in junior/minor leagues. I don't think it should, so there's accountability, but if the team is never going to make money, there's little risk to get the guy you want (usually a former NHL player as coach/GM)

    This speculation is fan/media fueled.

    Looking at their current structure, picking the GM would likely be Jim Devellano (and maybe Ken Holland). They aren't shy about hiring retired players. They employ Kris Draper, Jiri Fischer, Shawn Horcoff, and Dan Cleary in their management. Mark Howe is their head scout. Draper in Detroit media is considered the understudy.

    Mark Hunter, Paul Fenton, Julien BriseBois, etc. same crew mentioned for every GM opening right now as outside hire potential.

    It'll depend on how much they want to tear down by bringing in someone from the outside, but the meme is that they've done pretty well. This lean period was inevitable, and they haven't bottomed out.

    I sort of think it'll come from within. If the logic is to look at how SFY turned out after being tutored by Holland, then Draper should work out similarly. SFY may also not want to be the one to take an old friend/teammate's de jure GM job from him.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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  4. Werewolf

    Werewolf Registered User

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    I'm half as worried as you should like and more than half as worried as you should be.
     
  5. Rschmitz

    Rschmitz Yzermaned

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    or

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  6. JamieG19

    JamieG19 Registered User

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    Google Yzerman's house in Michigan. Doesn't exactly look like that....Michigan is a great place to live if you're rich like him.

    Thanks for the thoughtful response, but I think you're down playing 2 factors.

    1. Yzerman is now a proven GM. Draper isn't. Just because Yzerman was a former player who spent a couple of years learning, doesn't mean Draper will be the same.

    2. The name. Again, Yzerman is a legend. Appointing Yzerman as GM will give the Red Wings instant credibility back to the waning fan base. The Illitch's know this.

    This isn't some unfounded speculation. The Wings are going to go hard after Yzerman and Lightning fans who don't expect it are going to be in for a shock.

    And remember, money always talks. Just imagine. Tampa wins the Stanley Cup this June. All of the praise Yzerman is going to get about what a genius he is, the hard decisions, the trades, the managing the cap, not being afraid of Russians or under-sized forwards -- and then you have the Illitch's looking to make a splash as the Red Wings who were once their bread and butter now losing their place in the community with a fan base growing disgruntled.

    If you don't see this as real possibility, I'm afraid you are not very aware.

    Will he go or not? Well, I think that depends on just how much more $$$ the Red Wings offer and what length Vinik will go to keep him. But if you don't think the push is going to happen, I think you'll be in for a surprise.
     
  7. Hoek

    Hoek 001

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    If you don't think Vinik will go further than the Ilitchs, I'm afraid you are not very aware.
     
  8. The Macho Man

    The Macho Man Unexpected GF% of 100%

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    Mods - Can we lock this up? It's baseless speculation and one guy banging the same drum over and over again.
     
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  9. FinnLightning26

    FinnLightning26 Angery TB fan

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    I don't doubt that Yzerman returns to Detroit at some point but I don't see him as a guy who just leaves. Eventually it will be time for change but that time isn't even on the horizon.
     
  10. Rschmitz

    Rschmitz Yzermaned

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    Unless Yzerman is going to live like a recluse, what the area offers is what matters. Florida is known for it's amenities and weather, that's why we have a disproportionate about of rich old folk
     
  11. JamieG19

    JamieG19 Registered User

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    What is with the desire on HF to censor what people are interested in? If you aren't interested in topic, simply don't keep clicking on that thread. There's literally thousands of other threads to find something you are interested in. Or better yet, start your own thread on a topic that you are interested.

    And when the time comes that this topic is all in the news I think you're going to feel foolish.

    This is what is being said in Detroit:

    "It’s time to wipe the slate clean. Bring the Captain home. Hire Steve Yzerman to rebuild the Wings as they head into a new arena and a new era. He was born to do this job. It’s much like John Elway with the Denver Broncos. He was a champion as a player and now he is a champion as an executive. I believe that’s Steve Yzerman’s destiny with the Red Wings."

    What makes you think that? Vinik has known Yzerman for only 8 years. The Ilittch's have a 20 year relationship. The Illitch's are getting desperate to restore the Red Wings in Detroit because interest if falling big time and they have a new arena.

    The Illitch's are business people and acting with the heart (and the hearts of their customers). Jeff Vinik is just a business man.

    Again, Michigan is a great place to live if you're a multi millionaire. Michigan offers a lot for people with $$$.

    The bank being thrown at him and a pitch from the family who once saw him as part of the family could speed that process up.

    Of course, it all hinges on the Lightning winning it all this year. If they do, Yzerman's achieved his goal of constructing a championship team.
     
  12. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Still Drej

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    oooh. you gonna get it now.
     
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  13. Stamkos Indulgence

    Stamkos Indulgence Eating crow

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    Reminds me of the Leafs fans coming in here in 2016 to let us know that Stamkos was coming home
     
  14. Master P

    Master P Registered User

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    Maybe we should make a thread on the wings board. Something along the lines of
    "How concerned are you that if the Lightning win the Cup that Yzerman will not leave for Detroit?"
     
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  15. DFC

    DFC Registered User

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    If the goal in hockey is to win Stanley Cups, do you really leave a team built to contend for years to come for a team that's going to need at least a 5 year rebuild?
     
  16. JamieG19

    JamieG19 Registered User

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    Why? :laugh:
     
  17. DFC

    DFC Registered User

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    The statement shows a big time lack of knowledge about Jeff Vinik, who turned the Lightning organization around, with Yzerman's help, on a platform of class and integrity. The man gives away fifty grand to a "community hero" at every home game.

    I think you're only seeing the Wings side of this--why Yzerman might be tempted to leave. I don't think you're considering the mountain of reasons why he'd probably rather not leave one of the best situations in the NHL, in order to take his career back 5-7 years and start over.
     
  18. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Still Drej

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    I'm seeing it like this. SFY don't play, but I can't see him job blocking Kris Draper (if indeed he is that strong of a candidate) when Yzerman already got his.

    I've been noticing lately about when there's an understudy to a winner, they tend to work out okay. Either good mentoring or real recognizing real.

    and this isn't a one man operation. JBB, Verbeek, Murray, Plandowski, etc., etc. make the dream work.
     
  19. garmonbozia

    garmonbozia Registered User

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    1st - Yzerman is under contract next year. If his team wins 5 more games this year I fully expect him to sign a lucrative extension this summer.

    2nd - Mike Ilitch is no longer involved in the team (or life, R.I.P.).

    3rd - Chris Ilitch is not Mike Ilitch. Nor is he Jeff Vinik. Vinik is a pretty awesome owner across the board. He said he wanted a world class organization and has continuously taken the right steps to deliver exactly that. Yzerman is a big part of that, and Vinik has empowered everybody in the organization (Yzerman included) toward achieving that. Chris Ilitch is said to be difficult to work for, very hands on/meddling, tight with money, impatient...basically the opposite of Vinik. I'm not sure why you think Yzerman's loyalties spread to the whole Ilitch family, I personally think his ties are now stronger to Vinik than they've ever been to Chris Ilitch. Yzerman already works for one of the best owners in the league he has no reason to give that up to start over.

    4th- Yzerman doesn't seem motivated by sentiment. His actions and words both reflect somebody passionate about the sport that is capable of calm, non-emotional objectivity when it comes to making professional decisions. I get that the "Prodigal-Son-Returns" narrative has mass appeal to Detroit fans, but, I doubt it holds the same magical sway over the man himself. He's got Scotty Bowman nearby coming to games if he needs to scratch the nostalgic itch. Not to mention his currently relevant connections to many of his former team mates.

    5th - When asked a few years ago whether Yzerman saw himself in Tampa long term he said "I hope so. That means I'm doing a good job and I'd be very happy with that. I'm worried about right now, the next few years. And if I'm the GM of the Lightning in 20 years that means I've done a good job." He's doing a great job, neither he nor the team have any reason to disrupt the good thing they have going on. It's a big reason why he's able to get the players to buy in (literally) when it comes time to extend their contracts. His integrity probably won't let money be the main reason he leaves and given a chance Vinik wouldn't let it be.


    I'm not worried about Yzerman leaving, at all. Not until the job becomes considerably less rewarding than it currently is.
    Returning to the scene of former glories makes for good story, but, I think carving out new glories holds more appeal to Steve Yzerman. If he leaves I think it'd be for a job further up the professional ladder (which he'll likely have the opportunity to do in Tampa as well), and I think he enjoys being a GM too much right now to take that next step.
     
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  20. Sila v Kucherove

    Sila v Kucherove Yzerman 3:16

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  21. DFC

    DFC Registered User

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    A little off topic, but I always get a kick out of Scotty Bowman being, technically, a Blackhawks scout, but in reality he's just a professional TB Lightning fan. If you ever listen to Scotty Bowman interviews, he winds up talking about the Lightning way more than anything else, because, if I'm not mistaken, he attends every home game. And from time to time you'll see him and Yzerman taking the game in together.

    A little more on topic, I agree with pretty much everything here. I don't doubt that Yzerman has a soft spot for Detroit, and the Red Wings organization, but I think the OP underestimates Yzerman's competitive drive, which is still alive and well. He's put in a lot of work to bring the Lightning to this point. If we win a Cup, I don't think that's going to magically extinguish that competitive hunger and make him willing to start over, when he has a hand-built contender right here that looks like it's going to compete for the foreseeable future.
     
  22. Hoek

    Hoek 001

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    Vinik has poured a lot of money, sweat, and tears into this team, the community, and the arena. We've spent to the cap every year and I have no doubt he will throw whatever money it takes at Yzerman to keep him here. He will not simply be outbid. He's not just a businessman, he is a die-hard fan of his team and city of Tampa.
     
  23. Stammertime91

    Stammertime91 Keep on keepin' on!

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    Disregard everything Tampa fans say.

    Repeat we will be in shock if we win a cup because SY will leave.

    Show a profound lack of knowledge about our owner.

    Continue to insert the "Illitch family" so it brings credibility and worry.

    Continue to disregard what Tampa fans are saying.

    Insert the "Illitch family" again as a certified stamp of approval.

    Tell us we will be in shock one more time to drive home the point.


    Yeah, I'm so worried. Never thought about this. I'm shaking right now. Omg.
     
  24. Felonious Python

    Felonious Python Still Drej

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    Yzerman would also be setting himself up for disappointment. This isn't him getting fired and getting hired elsewhere. This is a poaching, and I'd think that the fan expectations for Steve to transform the organization just as quickly as he did TB adds a bunch of unnecessary drama.
     
  25. JamieG19

    JamieG19 Registered User

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    I've read all the same articles about Vinik that you have. He is a business man with an ego. Who says he holds people under him accountable. Will he take kindly to a bidding war? Or will he think working for him should be enough and will he feel (like some here feel), that all the other people in the organization (most of whom Yzerman brought in) like Briseboise and Murrary, etc. are enough?

    He was a fan of the Bruins. He bought the Lightning because the Bruins weren't going up for sale and they were the best business deal among the teams that were coming up for sale.

    For those of you making it sound like Yzerman has the dream job in TB where everyone loves him -- you have short memories. I could embarrass some of you if I wanted (but I won't) by directing you all to the HF archives where a few short years ago, many TB fans were calling for Yzerman's head because he wouldn't bring a washed up Vinny Lecavalier back. Remember that? :sarcasm: There's a bit more loyalty for Yzerman in Detroit.


    @garmonbozia Thank you for the best post of the thread. You made good points while staying on topic and without resorting to insults or conspiracy theories.

    While I disagree with some points, you make some good ones.

    I will say being under contract for one more year does not mean that the last year is never broken if another opportunity arises. Although you could make the case that the big push will come next year.

    Marian Illitch is still around. The same Marian Illitch who said Steve Yzerman was like a son to her. Yzerman is connected to the entire Illitch family (who were ever involved with the Red Wings). If you trace back where all the talk came from (aside from the fans) it was linked to Chris Illitch. I think you're also underestimating that the Illitch's have a brand new arena to fill and their popularity is going the other way.

    Put yourself in Chris Illitch's shoes. A blind man can see what he is aiming for. Apologies to Kris Draper, but he is not Steve Yzerman -- not with the fans. If Yzerman is brought in, the fan base won't even care if they don't win in the next 3 years, because there is faith that Yzerman knows what he is doing. Take a stroll around. Angry Wings fans tweeting that if only the Wings hadn't let Yzerman get away the Wings would have Kucherov, Kuznetsov, Namestnikov, etc, instead of Riley Sheehan, etc. Yzerman has a built in credibility that buys time. Wings fans are furious at the idea of having Holland around and his high priced contracts for mediocre vets.

    You mention Scotty Bowman, he himself was absolutely shocked that Yzerman left Detroit for the TB job because he never thought it would happen. Bowman thought Yzerman would be GM in Detroit for a reason. And btw, Vinik needed Yzerman to be given the vote of approval by Bowman so maybe too much is being made of the great Vinik/Yzerman bond. You can find quite a few articles around the time the TB GM position was up, and you'll see a bunch of articles about how it was believed Yzerman withdrew his name because he didn't feel it was the right place for him. Was it money? Negotiating?

    And again, I'm sorry, but you all underestimate the power of money. I don't think Yzerman is leaving TBL simply based on emotion. It will be money. It's always about the money. The strongest argument for Yzerman staying in TB is because of the tax situation in Florida which I believe is one of the reasons why he went to TB in the first place. But if the Illitch's make it a financially better offer for Yzerman taking into account the tax situation, he will be gone.

    Btw, here is a quote from Yzerman from April 2015...

    "Honestly I'm going to have a relationship with the (Red Wings) organization my entire life, an affinity for the team forever. "
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018

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