How can teams prevent situations like Marner & Laine?

[DRW204]

paying young players good money for their prime/peak years?

the question should be how do we prevent teams from the contracts like Lucic, Eriksson, Ladd, etc.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Draft bad players

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Can't spell dumbass without Dubas, he really made his own bed here...and ****ed every other GM along the way. It seems like he learned from his mistake based on the way he's handling Marner but time will tell. Hopefully contracts like Werenski's will help return to the norm.

No it doesn’t. He’s been offering Marner some insane contracts that significantly exceed his market value.

 

[bobholly39]

Well that proves my point further then. Maybe they could have got marner for less than 10.5x8.

I'm just saying that with the power of hindsight the ultra aggressive deals of 2018 would already be looking OK one year later.

Yep. But that goes both ways.

Laine a year ago coming off a 44G season was probably worth a higher $$ value than he is now after a very worrying year.

 

[jetsforever]

Not have good players

 

[bobholly39]

paying young players good money for their prime/peak years?

the question should be how do we prevent teams from the contracts like Lucic, Eriksson, Ladd, etc.

I think the biggest problem here is that we don't yet know what the prime/peak will look like.

Example - I don't think Tampa has any problem whatsoever paying fair market value to Point for 8 years. But are they paying for a 92 point player? Or a 66 point player? Somewhere in between? A player who will get even better and reach 100+? There's at least 5M$ in AAV in difference in salaries between those 4 players I listed.

Laine - a year ago scored 44 and sky seemed like the limit. Today? Well - still crazy potential, but last year was super worrisome. Is he going to be streaky and inconsistent like that moving forward? That's worth a lot less than a guy who seemed primed to score 50+ throughout his prime and win many rockets (Ovi-lite almost).

When Tavares was a UFA - or even when Stamkos, Karlsson or Doughty were due - at least with those guys you had already seen a solid 5-7+ years of prime and you knew exactly what to expect in terms of consistency. Sure there's a bit of a risk - maybe the last 1-3 years of a 7-8 year contract the player might decline and not be worth full value, but at least you know you'll get value for your $$ for most of your contract.

So much risk for young guys. There isn't exactly an easy fix either. Bridge contracts help with it - but I understand why the RFAs rather avoid those and go straight to making top $$ instead.

 

[J T Money]

No taxes

 

[Kelly]

Trade them away like the Canadiens

 

[Sugi21]

Trade them away like the Canadiens

Still have to sign them first!

 

[Legion34]

Can't spell dumbass without Dubas, he really made his own bed here...and ****ed every other GM along the way. It seems like he learned from his mistake based on the way he's handling Marner but time will tell. Hopefully contracts like Werenski's will help return to the norm.

Hahahahaha you are so mad your team is brutal. It’s very transparent

 

[CupInSIX]

For Marner: tell your local media to not hype up a prospect like they're a generational talent every day on radio, or constantly talk about their potential AAVs. This constant barrage of 'he's going to be worth $$$$$$$$$$$ in a few years' gets around to friends, family, teammates, agents.

I don't know what Laine is asking for but if it's over 9m, sit him down and shake him repeatedly.

 

[SlapshotTheMovie]

Get better GM's that can manage the cap better.

 

[Bandit]

Human greed is universal. Good luck getting a hockey team to solve that problem.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Own livelihood > team success all day everyday...get that money.

What will help set up your family and future generation better? a worthless cup and a ring worth ~25k or an extra million every year for your contract term? Maybe a pay cut would work if players got a bonus for each playoff round they reach that not count against the cap.

People want to believe that a cup and team success via taking a discount happens but that’s secondary to a stable future and long term priorities

For Marner: tell your local media to not hype up a prospect like they're a generational talent every day on radio, or constantly talk about their potential AAVs. This constant barrage of 'he's going to be worth $$$$$$$$$$$ in a few years' gets around to friends, family, teammates, agents.

I don't know what Laine is asking for but if it's over 9m, sit him down and shake him repeatedly.

Or deny him universal access to fortnite, one of the two

 

[YakDavid]

Signing Tavares and Matthews to big contract then telling Marner he needs to take less is part of the problem.

 

[Aladyyn]

Was the Toronto situation avoidable if they had dealt with Matthews differently?

I'll have to let a Leaf fan chime in as I'm not as well-versed in how that went down.

At the time it seemed expensive and it would cause problems down the road but IIRC it wasn't necessarily considered far above market value.

The Matthews contract broke the market. Getting that kind of money with that little term just straight up didn't happen before Matthews. As far as I'm concerned, Dubas made his own bed.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Don't add good players to your team and jettison them for scraps if someone ends up demanding too much money

 

[Fixxer]

Marner's issue apparently was getting Tavares and paying big money. Not that Tavares is not worth the money, but having 2 1st overall star player costs a lot! As for Laine, his value is possibly hard to tell with being inconsistent and injured.

 

[Ceremony]

By paying your best players appropriately

Not sure where the confusion is

 

[Mikeshane]

Not much.

I'm surprised it took as long as it did for these young skilled guys to realize how much power they have in negotiations if they're willing to hold out.

 

[Iggys Dome]

Only time a young star should take a discount is if other players on the team take discounts as well, Player A taking a 2M discount doesn't make much of a difference if the team is already overpaying Player B by 1.5M. This is where organizational leadership starting at the top (Owner, GM, POHO etc.) matters, they have to get players to buy into the long term success of the team and commit to the teams payroll structure. This is paramount in all sports IMO (unless you're the Yankees or some other equivalent).

IMO that's where TML is f***ed but honestly I can't blame Dubas that much. However the Matthews contract was awful, he should have at least got him for 8 years if he's paying him 11.5M.

 

[Martin Skoula]

With a bit of hindsight I wonder if Dubas could have signed all three with ultra aggressive offers at the time.

Matthews 11.5x8
Marner 10.5x8
Nylander 7x8

At what point was this at all possible? It would have to be before start of camp last year and that amount of money was not even close to available.

You sign those contracts with Marleau and Zaitsev still on your cap for years and teams know you have to dump them. How do you think that's gonna go?

 

[TOGuy14]

I understand that they want more money in their contracts, but team success should be more important IMO.

Wondering why you think Marner and Laine are a "situation" but not Rantanen, Tkachuk, McAvoy, Provorov, Boesser etc?

 

[BruinsBtn]

It starts with drafting for character.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Don't.

Pay your young superstars what they earned. Save money by not giving plugs $3-4M to do what a replacement level player does.

I agree giving plugs who are replacement level millions of dollars is bad, but who are some of these players?