How can teams prevent situations like Marner & Laine?

[steveayres35]

I understand that they want more money in their contracts, but team success should be more important IMO.

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[Zeke and luther]

By overpaying them

 

[93LEAFS]

Bring back the reserve clause..... Teams first.

Realistically, no, team success matters to players, but signing for cheaper for a GM to potentially waste the money they saved on an overpaid vet doesn't guarantee the player team success. The money is guaranteed (outside of CBA changing, and they know about escrow). Team success isn't. So, unless a player really wants to be somewhere, it makes no sense to take a discount, especially earlier in their career.

 

[ottawa]

Own livelihood > team success all day everyday...get that money.

What will help set up your family and future generation better? a worthless cup and a ring worth ~25k or an extra million every year for your contract term?

 

[TootooTrain]

Young players with elite ceilings want elite money. There's nobody else to blame but reality. It is what it is.

 

[Khelandros]

Stop hiring idiots like Dubas to be GM's?

 

[NyQuil]

Was the Toronto situation avoidable if they had dealt with Matthews differently?

I'll have to let a Leaf fan chime in as I'm not as well-versed in how that went down.

At the time it seemed expensive and it would cause problems down the road but IIRC it wasn't necessarily considered far above market value.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Gamble on players earlier by locking them up before they really explode and break out production wise.

 

[ottawa]

Stop hiring idiots like Dubas to be GM's?

Can't spell dumbass without Dubas, he really made his own bed here...and f***ed every other GM along the way. It seems like he learned from his mistake based on the way he's handling Marner but time will tell. Hopefully contracts like Werenski's will help return to the norm.

 

[bobholly39]

Own livelihood > team success all day everyday...get that money.

What will help set up your future generations better? a worthless cup and a cup ring worth ~25k or an extra million every year for your contract term? Maybe a pay cut would work if players got a bonus for each playoff round they reach that not count against the cap.

Exactly. Guys like Tavares or Karlsson or other high end UFAs who have already made their millions might be more likely to take a bit less to "win" or even simply to play in a city/climate they prefer.

I dont blame young guys for looking for max $$.

 

[El Travo]

Don't spend 11M a year on an outsider, then follow that up with overpaying your other players?

 

[ottawa]

Exactly. Guys like Tavares or Karlsson or other high end UFAs who have already made their millions might be more likely to take a bit less to "win" or even simply to play in a city/climate they prefer.

I dont blame young guys for looking for max $$.

Forwards' primes are earlier than what it used to be, they enter their prime and hit their peak usually before the age of 27 so it makes sense for them to get paid during their first contract following the ELC.

 

[Khelandros]

Can't spell dumbass without Dubas, he really made his own bed here...and ****ed every other GM along the way. It seems like he learned from his mistake based on the way he's handling Marner but time will tell. Hopefully contracts like Werenski's will help return to the norm.

I don't get this whole "how he's handling Marner" thing. He went out and traded for a LTIR contract to go along with his own LTIR contract. Once the season starts and both those players are placed, Leaves gain $10MM in space, that is when he will sign Marner to his $10MM AAV contract. He's going to give Marner exactly what Marner wants, because they are boys.

 

[beowulf]

Own livelihood > team success all day everyday...get that money.

What will help set up your family and future generation better? a worthless cup and a ring worth ~25k or an extra million every year for your contract term? Maybe a pay cut would work if players got a bonus for each playoff round they reach that not count against the cap.

Well technically they do, though it is from the league and I assume does not count against the cap

The each is each team so it ends up being very little. So if you could raise that, and it likely would have to be significantly, it might cause players to be willing to take a little less come time to re-up their contracts.

• President's Trophy: $575,000.
• 1st round: $287,500 each.
• 2nd round: $575,000 each.
• 3rd round: $1.45 mil each.
• Cup final: $2.6 mil.
• Cup winner: $4.325 mil.

 

[ottawa]

Well technically they do, though it is from the league and I assume does not count against the cap

The each is each team so it ends up being very little. So if you could raise that, and it likely would have to be significantly, it might cause players to be willing to take a little less come time to re-up their contracts.

• President's Trophy: $575,000.
• 1st round: $287,500 each.
• 2nd round: $575,000 each.
• 3rd round: $1.45 mil each.
• Cup final: $2.6 mil.
• Cup winner: $4.325 mil.

That's really not much tbh, you're getting just shy of 400k for winning it all. I was thinking each player gets their own built in bonus, a player like Marner will have a bigger role in a cup win than a guy like Petan, so he should get more.

 

[Merrrlin]

I understand that they want more money in their contracts, but team success should be more important IMO.

When you go to work, do you think "I would definitely take a paycut if that helped the company" ?

Stop hiring idiots like Dubas to be GM's?

Who are you to call Dubas an idiot? That's like seeing a doctor make a decision and then calling them an idiot because you read woo-woo health blogs all day. Your knowledge of the hockey world is a tiny sliver of the reality.

Always funny seeing amatuers judging professionals, especially when it's this poorly done. Disagreeing is one thing, calling someone an idiot...you better back it up.

Gamble on players earlier by locking them up before they really explode and break out production wise.

The issue is that players are too smart for that. Look at all the underpaid players out there now that signed career contracts. Just a year ago, many called Eichel and Draisaitl anchor contracts, but now most teams would gladly pay them more for less term, especially with the money coming into the league in the next few seasons.

Don't spend 11M a year on an outsider, then follow that up with overpaying your other players?

Such a shallow post, not worth debating.

 

[beowulf]

That's really not much tbh, you're getting just shy of 400k for winning it all. I was thinking each player gets their own built in bonus, a player like Marner will have a bigger role in a cup win than a guy like Petan, so he should get more.

I agree. It would make the regular season have a little more value as losing out early, i.e. being all but mathematically out of the playoffs before the season is half over, hard to swallow. The issues I see coming up is what happens if you sign a contract for 5 years and two years in management decides to rebuild? Or what if you get traded from a team with deep playoff aspiration close to the trade deadline to a team that is out? Players would not be happy!

 

[ottawa]

I agree. It would make the regular season have a little more value as losing out early, i.e. being all but mathematically out of the playoffs before the season is half over, hard to swallow. The issues I see coming up is what happens if you sign a contract for 5 years and two years in management decides to rebuild? Or what if you get traded from a team with deep playoff aspiration close to the trade deadline to a team that is out? Players would not be happy!

I mean, shit happens...the playoffs is a bonus, not everyone gets it. It's gravy on your reg. season contract.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Was the Toronto situation avoidable if they had dealt with Matthews differently?

I'll have to let a Leaf fan chime in as I'm not as well-versed in how that went down.

At the time it seemed expensive and it would cause problems down the road but IIRC it wasn't necessarily considered far above market value.

With a bit of hindsight I wonder if Dubas could have signed all three with ultra aggressive offers at the time.

Matthews 11.5x8
Marner 10.5x8
Nylander 7x8

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Team success is important to players during their junior or college years. Once they start making real money you can’t really believe anyone when they say they care about the team. Well everyone except Patrik Elias that is.

 

[bobholly39]

With a bit of hindsight I wonder if Dubas could have signed all three with ultra aggressive offers at the time.

Matthews 11.5x8
Marner 10.5x8
Nylander 7x8

When?

A year ago Nylander had had back to back 61 point seasons, and Marner had 61 & 69 point seasons - and a lot of people had both players very close. In fact - a lot of Leaf fans seemed to say Nylander > Marner.

Marner wasn't worth 10.5 back then, especially not if Nylander is only worth 7

 

[Frank Drebin]

When?

A year ago Nylander had had back to back 61 point seasons, and Marner had 61 & 69 point seasons - and a lot of people had both players very close. In fact - a lot of Leaf fans seemed to say Nylander > Marner.

Marner wasn't worth 10.5 back then, especially not if Nylander is only worth 7

Well that proves my point further then. Maybe they could have got marner for less than 10.5x8.

I'm just saying that with the power of hindsight the ultra aggressive deals of 2018 would already be looking OK one year later.

 

[ACC1224]

I understand that they want more money in their contracts, but team success should be more important IMO.

Players feel that they are a vital component of the Team success and should be compensated for it.
No reason to think Team success isn't more important to them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How can teams prevent that? Start by not being cheap and expecting your players to take less money for the sake of the team? Or in Marner's case, don't pay Matthews $11.5 million when you're not willing to pay Marner over $10 million.

 

[Machinehead]

Don't.

Pay your young superstars what they earned. Save money by not giving plugs $3-4M to do what a replacement level player does.