How can teams prevent situations like Marner & Laine?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by steveayres35, Sep 10, 2019 at 10:44 AM.

  1. steveayres35

    steveayres35 Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    26
    Gender:
    Male
    I understand that they want more money in their contracts, but team success should be more important IMO.
     
  2. Zeke and luther

    Zeke and luther Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    23
  3. 93LEAFS

    93LEAFS Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    25,054
    Likes Received:
    8,578
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Toronto
    Bring back the reserve clause..... Teams first.

    Realistically, no, team success matters to players, but signing for cheaper for a GM to potentially waste the money they saved on an overpaid vet doesn't guarantee the player team success. The money is guaranteed (outside of CBA changing, and they know about escrow). Team success isn't. So, unless a player really wants to be somewhere, it makes no sense to take a discount, especially earlier in their career.
     
    Chainshot, Spock, Vegeta and 2 others like this.
  4. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    29,518
    Likes Received:
    4,016
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orleans/Toronto
    Own livelihood > team success all day everyday...get that money.

    What will help set up your family and future generation better? a worthless cup and a ring worth ~25k or an extra million every year for your contract term?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 10:55 AM
    Oneiro, Rec T, Juippi and 19 others like this.
  5. TootooTrain

    TootooTrain Southern Hospitality

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    35,207
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Young players with elite ceilings want elite money. There's nobody else to blame but reality. It is what it is.
     
    dss97, Mach8, JasonRoseEh and 5 others like this.
  6. Khelandros

    Khelandros Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    760
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Gender:
    Male
    Stop hiring idiots like Dubas to be GM's?
     
  7. NyQuil

    NyQuil F.Y.R.O.U.S.

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    Messages:
    66,102
    Likes Received:
    11,651
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    Was the Toronto situation avoidable if they had dealt with Matthews differently?

    I'll have to let a Leaf fan chime in as I'm not as well-versed in how that went down.

    At the time it seemed expensive and it would cause problems down the road but IIRC it wasn't necessarily considered far above market value.
     
    Oddbob likes this.
  8. Filthy Dangles

    Filthy Dangles Playing puck on a pond somewhere

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    16,236
    Likes Received:
    15,889
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Location:
    Ittoqqortoormiit
    Gamble on players earlier by locking them up before they really explode and break out production wise.
     
  9. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    29,518
    Likes Received:
    4,016
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orleans/Toronto
    Can't spell dumbass without Dubas, he really made his own bed here...and ****ed every other GM along the way. It seems like he learned from his mistake based on the way he's handling Marner but time will tell. Hopefully contracts like Werenski's will help return to the norm.
     
  10. bobholly39

    bobholly39 Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    10,595
    Likes Received:
    3,275
    Trophy Points:
    156

    Exactly. Guys like Tavares or Karlsson or other high end UFAs who have already made their millions might be more likely to take a bit less to "win" or even simply to play in a city/climate they prefer.

    I dont blame young guys for looking for max $$.
     
  11. El Travo

    El Travo Why are we still here? Just to suffer?

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    5,260
    Likes Received:
    3,452
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Gender:
    Male
    Don't spend 11M a year on an outsider, then follow that up with overpaying your other players?
     
  12. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    29,518
    Likes Received:
    4,016
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orleans/Toronto
    Forwards' primes are earlier than what it used to be, they enter their prime and hit their peak usually before the age of 27 so it makes sense for them to get paid during their first contract following the ELC.
     
    Mach8 likes this.
  13. Khelandros

    Khelandros Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    760
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't get this whole "how he's handling Marner" thing. He went out and traded for a LTIR contract to go along with his own LTIR contract. Once the season starts and both those players are placed, Leaves gain $10MM in space, that is when he will sign Marner to his $10MM AAV contract. He's going to give Marner exactly what Marner wants, because they are boys.
     
    Fixxer likes this.
  14. beowulf

    beowulf Not a nice guy.

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    50,399
    Likes Received:
    1,793
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Ottawa

    Well technically they do, though it is from the league and I assume does not count against the cap

    The each is each team so it ends up being very little. So if you could raise that, and it likely would have to be significantly, it might cause players to be willing to take a little less come time to re-up their contracts.
    • President's Trophy: $575,000.
    • 1st round: $287,500 each.
    • 2nd round: $575,000 each.
    • 3rd round: $1.45 mil each.
    • Cup final: $2.6 mil.
    • Cup winner: $4.325 mil.
     
  15. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    29,518
    Likes Received:
    4,016
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orleans/Toronto
    That's really not much tbh, you're getting just shy of 400k for winning it all. I was thinking each player gets their own built in bonus, a player like Marner will have a bigger role in a cup win than a guy like Petan, so he should get more.
     
  16. Treebeard

    Treebeard Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    499
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Location:
    Northeast US
    When you go to work, do you think "I would definitely take a paycut if that helped the company" ?

    Who are you to call Dubas an idiot? That's like seeing a doctor make a decision and then calling them an idiot because you read woo-woo health blogs all day. Your knowledge of the hockey world is a tiny sliver of the reality.

    Always funny seeing amatuers judging professionals, especially when it's this poorly done. Disagreeing is one thing, calling someone an idiot...you better back it up.

    The issue is that players are too smart for that. Look at all the underpaid players out there now that signed career contracts. Just a year ago, many called Eichel and Draisaitl anchor contracts, but now most teams would gladly pay them more for less term, especially with the money coming into the league in the next few seasons.

    Such a shallow post, not worth debating.
     
  17. beowulf

    beowulf Not a nice guy.

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    50,399
    Likes Received:
    1,793
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Location:
    Ottawa
    I agree. It would make the regular season have a little more value as losing out early, i.e. being all but mathematically out of the playoffs before the season is half over, hard to swallow. The issues I see coming up is what happens if you sign a contract for 5 years and two years in management decides to rebuild? Or what if you get traded from a team with deep playoff aspiration close to the trade deadline to a team that is out? Players would not be happy!
     
  18. ottawa

    ottawa Avatar of the Year*

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    29,518
    Likes Received:
    4,016
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orleans/Toronto
    I mean, **** happens...the playoffs is a bonus, not everyone gets it. It's gravy on your reg. season contract.
     
  19. Frank Drebin

    Frank Drebin Habs Sponsor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    23,195
    Likes Received:
    5,521
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Location:
    Edmonton
    With a bit of hindsight I wonder if Dubas could have signed all three with ultra aggressive offers at the time.

    Matthews 11.5x8
    Marner 10.5x8
    Nylander 7x8
     
    Stamkos4life likes this.
  20. Jerzey Devil

    Jerzey Devil Taylor, Egg, and Cheese

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    3,558
    Likes Received:
    938
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    From Westfield, NJ
    Team success is important to players during their junior or college years. Once they start making real money you can’t really believe anyone when they say they care about the team. Well everyone except Patrik Elias that is.
     
    njd118 likes this.
  21. bobholly39

    bobholly39 Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    10,595
    Likes Received:
    3,275
    Trophy Points:
    156
    When?

    A year ago Nylander had had back to back 61 point seasons, and Marner had 61 & 69 point seasons - and a lot of people had both players very close. In fact - a lot of Leaf fans seemed to say Nylander > Marner.

    Marner wasn't worth 10.5 back then, especially not if Nylander is only worth 7
     
    Nizdizzle and stopclickbait like this.
  22. Frank Drebin

    Frank Drebin Habs Sponsor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    23,195
    Likes Received:
    5,521
    Trophy Points:
    232
    Location:
    Edmonton
    Well that proves my point further then. Maybe they could have got marner for less than 10.5x8.

    I'm just saying that with the power of hindsight the ultra aggressive deals of 2018 would already be looking OK one year later.
     
  23. ACC1224

    ACC1224 Keeping it real, someone has to.

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    50,686
    Likes Received:
    6,142
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Players feel that they are a vital component of the Team success and should be compensated for it.
    No reason to think Team success isn't more important to them.
     
  24. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 Go Knights Go

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    42,052
    Likes Received:
    19,476
    Trophy Points:
    141
    How can teams prevent that? Start by not being cheap and expecting your players to take less money for the sake of the team? Or in Marner's case, don't pay Matthews $11.5 million when you're not willing to pay Marner over $10 million.
     
  25. Machinehead

    Machinehead ★★★YNWA★★★

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    97,042
    Likes Received:
    26,316
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Occupation:
    Professor
    Location:
    NYC
    Don't.

    Pay your young superstars what they earned. Save money by not giving plugs $3-4M to do what a replacement level player does.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"