How are you feeling about Tavares these days?

[Zybalto]

One guy consumes $7 mil cap while the other consumes $11 mil.

Players $4 mil difference in cap consumption should not be graded as equals when the points are similar.

Bang for your Cap $ buck is the easy answer to your question.

Part of the reason the cap system is so toxic really and why Nylander is headed to be yet another "overpaid" whipping boy. He'll never live up to the contract if they way the other guys are treated is any indication of the future.

I can only look at how the players actually play and the obsession with the cap has poisoned peoples minds....just adding another tribal element to feed the increasingly negative culture around almost everything really.

In terms of actual performance, Nylander can legitimately be argued to have been the 4th best option out of the big 4 the last 2 playoffs. His "big series" against the Habs is becoming more and more a distant memory on a team that featured Campbell, Hyman, Thornton, Mikheyev, Simmonds, Galchenyuk, etc. in prominent roles. If he was already making 11.5m, what would be the vibe around here concerning him? I think I know.

 

[AustonMarner]

I live in Alberta. And set it up however you want bro. Tavares will 100% be a Leaf next season at any point you want to put it down for. You're delusional and I'll gladly take your money any method you choose.

Firstly , not sure why you think you can tell me what to do? I don't know you or owe you $hit

delusional... here comes the name calling again lol

There's nothing that I've said that is delusional

I'm saying that a mutual contract termination after final signing bonus would be beneficial for both Tavares and the Leafs... it's pretty clear based on his demotion and public criticism by management that Tavares has fallen out if favour with the team...

**I challenge you or anyone to find above statement delusional in anyway**

If anything you're the one who can't wrap his mind around this idea... probably just stuck in your old timey ways of thinking, so it's not your fault I guess

Definitely still wouldn't mind betting you if we can figure out a way... I assumed you we from GTA

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Lmfao @Larcos_Unal to be honest, I read your posts and you have some of the worst takes on this site lol... you too @Racer88

I'm not here to educate you my son but I will anyway...

Mutual Terminations And Their Value To Players

Over the last three seasons in particular, we've seen a number of so-called "mutual terminations". In fact, we've seen more …

www.prohockeyrumors.com

*There's many examples if these transactions every season including this one

Look up $hit for yourself next time before you reply to me so you don't seem so out of touch

That is rich coming from the guy whose grand idea is to have the team's Captain agree to terminate his contract while he has a NMC and a young family in the city.

She posts an article from 2017 that ranges from years 2014-2017 to prove that terminations happen all the time. This time period coincides with the start of the current CBA btw.

That's mongoloid levels of idiocy my man, good luck with all that

 

[Evilhomer]

Those is rich coming from the guy who's grand idea is to have the team's Captain agree to terminate his contract while he has a NMC and a young family in the city.

That's mongoloid levels of idiocy my man, good luck with all that

Unless I'm mistaken, his parents live here and his wife's parents live here. With three young kids and all of their family in the area, the guy isn't moving. In fact, it would be shocking if he doesn't resign here when his contract ends.

 

[TMLife17]

Firstly , not sure why you think you can tell me what to do? I don't know you or owe you $hit

delusional... here comes the name calling again lol

There's nothing that I've said that is delusional

I'm saying that a mutual contract termination after final signing bonus would be beneficial for both Tavares and the Leafs... it's pretty clear based on his demotion and public criticism by management that Tavares has fallen out if favour with the team...

**I challenge you or anyone to find above statement delusional in anyway**

If anything you're the one who can't wrap his mind around this idea... probably just stuck in your old timey ways of thinking, so it's not your fault I guess

Definitely still wouldn't mind betting you if we can figure out a way... I assumed you we from GTA

Here comes the name calling again? You called me a clown like the first response you gave me. Don't play victim.

You can't mutually terminate a contract for no reason in the NHL. Name me one example. That's the delusional part because you don't understand how a contract works or the rules of the league.

Put up your money or make an account bet with me. I'll bet you anything you want. If it's your word on here I guarantee I wont get the money though. DM me and we'll find an app that will let us do it.

 

[Machinae]

Tavares is fantastic and gives his all every game.. If the other 3 had even one iota of his drive and hard work on the boards, they'd be blowing through teams in the playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Part of the reason the cap system is so toxic really and why Nylander is headed to be yet another "overpaid" whipping boy. He'll never live up to the contract if they way the other guys are treated is any indication of the future.

I can only look at how the players actually play and the obsession with the cap has poisoned peoples minds....just adding another tribal element to feed the increasingly negative culture around almost everything really.

In terms of actual performance, Nylander can legitimately be argued to have been the 4th best option out of the big 4 the last 2 playoffs. His "big series" against the Habs is becoming more and more a distant memory on a team that featured Campbell, Hyman, Thornton, Mikheyev, Simmonds, Galchenyuk, etc. in prominent roles. If he was already making 11.5m, what would be the vibe around here concerning him? I think I know.

LOL. We are 1-7 in playoff series with this core, you expect people to be happy with that kind of performance or what?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Here comes the name calling again? You called me a clown like the first response you gave me. Don't play victim.

You can't mutually terminate a contract for no reason in the NHL. Name me one example. That's the delusional part because you don't understand how a contract works or the rules of the league.

Put up your money or make an account bet with me. I'll bet you anything you want. If it's your word on here I guarantee I wont get the money though. DM me and we'll find an app that will let us do it.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/red-wings-filip-zadina-agree-to-terminate-contract#:~:text=The%20Detroit%20Red%20Wings%20placed,annual%20value%20of%20%241.825%20million.

Sorry for intervening, but Zadina and the Wings mutually terminated his contract so Zadina could go play for San Jose rather than be demoted to the AHL (he still would have been making an NHL salary).

Zadina ended up signing a "show me" deal with the Sharks for less than he was earning with the Wings.

I don't think that's much different than what is being suggested with the Tavares contract here.

 

[hotpaws]

Tavares is fantastic and gives his all every game.. If the other 3 had even one iota of his drive and hard work on the boards, they'd be blowing through teams in the playoffs.

it would be nice if JT actually had a good playoffs , 15 yrs in the league and only one good playoff series and none with us

also , skating like every stride is a struggle doesn't mean he's working harder than everyone , it just means he skates like crap

 

[Nylander88]

Feeling like I wish this was his last year on his current contract. Nowhere near worth 11 million. A "good pro" as Babcock would say...but he doesn't drag a team into the battle, and the team doesn't go as he goes. Matthews should be the captain. Tavares best chance to be effective for us in the playoffs is to be the 3C and get easier competition.

 

[mjd1001]

Here comes the name calling again? You called me a clown like the first response you gave me. Don't play victim.

You can't mutually terminate a contract for no reason in the NHL. Name me one example. That's the delusional part because you don't understand how a contract works or the rules of the league.

Put up your money or make an account bet with me. I'll bet you anything you want. If it's your word on here I guarantee I wont get the money though. DM me and we'll find an app that will let us do it.

I'm going to agree with you on the contract part. Fans who don't like the deal and what you are getting for it are going to 'wish away' the contract by saying how it should be terminated, or someone else should trade for him (if his contract is THAT bad, why would someone else want it, not to mention what are the odds of him WANTING to leave the home town Leafs and at least playoff appearance guarantees for another team willing to take on his deal?)

With that said, hes old(er) but hes not a total dinosaur out there. He's 33, not 38. His scoring is down this year but he's still likely to put up 25 for you and he's coming off of 36 last year. When I watch him, my personal 'eye test' tells me he puts in as much effort and floats less than a lot of other players on the team. And in the last 2 years in the playoffs, he has only scored 2 less goals than Matthews, the same as Nylander, and more than Marner (meaning his production at least doesn't drop off once the playoffs hit, he is consistent).

So what do I mean by all that? You aren't getting $11m of performance out of him, but you aren't getting DRASTICALLY less. If you could wave a magic wand and make the last 2 years of his contract disappear, yeah, it would be great, but you almost ALWAYS have that issue with the last couple years of a contact for a star player you sign in their middle-to-late 20's. You are likely to have that issue with Nylander, Matthews, and Marner the last couple years of their deals. The fact that you are getting 25-30 goals out of JT AND he's not disappearing in the playoffs is actually pretty good for the last 2 years of his deal compared to what happens to other stars at the end of their deals.

What will he give you next year? 30+ goals? Probably not, but not out of the question. Some place between 20-25 goals, 60+ points and showing up in the playoffs? I'd bet on that. THAT is not as easy to replace as many here want to think. You don't just easily go out and find a 25 year old free agent that will give you that for half the price.

Ideally, I'd like to see him play here next year, then LOVE to see him re-sign for another 2-3 years at a much lower rate. You still aren't going to get him for the vet minimum, but a JT still playing at a decent level, who now can be your third line guy, I think that is the most likely, and the best possible outcome.

 

[WillyC]

https://thehockeynews.com/news/red-wings-filip-zadina-agree-to-terminate-contract#:~:text=The%20Detroit%20Red%20Wings%20placed,annual%20value%20of%20%241.825%20million.

Sorry for intervening, but Zadina and the Wings mutually terminated his contract so Zadina could go play for San Jose rather than be demoted to the AHL (he still would have been making an NHL salary).

Zadina ended up signing a "show me" deal with the Sharks for less than he was earning with the Wings.

I don't think that's much different than what is being suggested with the Tavares contract here.

So now you have Captain John Tavares on the verge of demotion to the minors?

Lol

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

So now you have Captain John Tavares on the verge of demotion to the minors?

Lol

I'm sorry you have reading comprehension difficulties.

Someone suggested they pay Tavares his signing bonus and then mutually agree to a buyout so he could go play for another team. Someone else said there was no such thing as mutually agreed upon termination of contracts in the NHL. All I did was simply show that a player and team absolutely can agree to terminate a contract leaving the player as a free agent to sign wherever he wants after.

I tried to explain it as best I could, like I was talking to a small child lacking in understanding, so if you still don't get it then I'm sorry but it's clearly above your head.

 

[WillyC]

I'm sorry you have reading comprehension difficulties.

Someone suggested they pay Tavares his signing bonus and then mutually agree to a buyout so he could go play for another team. Someone else said there was no such thing as mutually agreed upon termination of contracts in the NHL. All I did was simply show that a player and team absolutely can agree to terminate a contract leaving the player as a free agent to sign wherever he wants after.

I tried to explain it as best I could, like I was talking to a small child lacking in understanding, so if you still don't get it then I'm sorry but it's clearly above your head.

Above, you said it’s not much different than the Tavares situation.

So now, you’re saying we shouldn’t threaten JT with sending him to the minors?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Above, you said it’s not much different than the Tavares situation.

So now, you’re saying we shouldn’t threaten JT with sending him to the minors?

I didn't say they should threaten sending JT to the minors.

You are putting words into my mouth. I specifically said "it isn't much DIFFERENT". Which, of course, implies there is a difference. The difference being that JT has a NMC and can't be threatened with a demotion.

I've really tried my best to explain it in the most basic of terms now so if you still don't understand then I'm sorry but I can't help you anymore.

Reading comprehension...

 

[WillyC]

I didn't say they should threaten sending JT to the minors.

You are putting words into my mouth. I specifically said "it isn't much DIFFERENT". Which, of course, implies there is a difference. The difference being that JT has a NMC and can't be threatened with a demotion.

I've really tried my best to explain it in the most basic of terms now so if you still don't understand then I'm sorry but I can't help you anymore.

Reading comprehension...

So now you’re saying both sides are just gonna agree to terminate the contract without threatening JT be sent to the minors?

Got any more examples similar to the Tavares situation?

 

[ACC1224]

So now you’re saying both sides are just gonna agree to terminate the contract without threatening JT be sent to the minors?

Got any more examples similar to the Tavares situation?

It’s a dumb premise and continually doubling down on it by a few is even dumber.
You can’t have ‘more examples’ when there aren’t any to begin with.

 

[JEI]

Falling off production wise at the expected time in his contract (although I think he's played noticeably better since Marner went out). Unfortunately, the team couldn't do more with his time here (cap crunch for a few years didn't help)..still at least one more playoff to go!

Still would re-sign him though if the money works (hope he feels the same).. really just his cap hit that's making him undesirable. With an increasing cap though I wonder what that looks like a year on the shorter term? O'Rielly just signed 4years at 4.5m (prior to the cap bump coming), that seems like a comparable at the moment off the top of my head.

 

[ToneDog]

I'm sorry you have reading comprehension difficulties.

Someone suggested they pay Tavares his signing bonus and then mutually agree to a buyout so he could go play for another team. Someone else said there was no such thing as mutually agreed upon termination of contracts in the NHL. All I did was simply show that a player and team absolutely can agree to terminate a contract leaving the player as a free agent to sign wherever he wants after.

I tried to explain it as best I could, like I was talking to a small child lacking in understanding, so if you still don't get it then I'm sorry but it's clearly above your head.

What happens with his $11m cap hit? I recall Minny buying out Suter and Parise and they carried dead space for 2? years. I believe the rule is 2/3 cap hit over two years. So $3.685m dead cap space for two years. Not happening. What makes more sense is another team buying him out. Most likely also not happening.

Again, best way to dump Tavares is to a team wanting his cap hit to reach the cap floor and wanting Tavares for $910K in real dollars. I thought Chicago could be one of those teams. Not sure what other teams are candidates.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

So now you’re saying both sides are just gonna agree to terminate the contract without threatening JT be sent to the minors?

Got any more examples similar to the Tavares situation?

I didn't say that either.

Are you really that desperate for a "gotcha"? The original premise was that you can't mutually terminate a contract in the NHL and an example was asked for. I provided an example of a mutually agreed upon termination of a contract. I said nothing about Tavares being demoted.

If you, or anyone agreeing with you, is reading too much into anything I have written that's on you.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

What happens with his $11m cap hit? I recall Minny buying out Suter and Parise and they carried dead space for 2? years. I believe the rule is 2/3 cap hit over two years. So $3.685m dead cap space for two years. Not happening. What makes more sense is another team buying him out. Most likely also not happening.

Again, best way to dump Tavares is to a team wanting his cap hit to reach the cap floor and wanting Tavares for $910K in real dollars. I thought Chicago could be one of those teams. Not sure what other teams are candidates.

I said buyout by accident the first sentence, that was a typo, the whole premise is actually based on a mutually exclusive termination of his contract which would result in his cap hit being eliminated.

After his signing bonus is paid July 1st Tavares is only owed $775k. So the premise someone suggested was a mutually exclusive buyout. In which case Tavares receives his almost $11M in signing bonus and then forfeits the $775k in order to sign with another team.

It wasn't my idea, and clearly has zero percent chance of ever happening, but it is feasible even if some people don't like the idea.

Some people just like to be argumentative I guess.

 

[ACC1224]

The only way Tavares isn’t on the books next year is if he sustains a career ending injury. That’s it, there are no other legitimate scenarios.

 

[WillyC]

I didn't say that either.

Are you really that desperate for a "gotcha"? The original premise was that you can't mutually terminate a contract in the NHL and an example was asked for. I provided an example of a mutually agreed upon termination of a contract. I said nothing about Tavares being demoted.

If you, or anyone agreeing with you, is reading too much into anything I have written that's on you.

So your example is “not much different” and also not similar?

got it

 

[ToneDog]

I said buyout by accident the first sentence, that was a typo, the whole premise is actually based on a mutually exclusive termination of his contract which would result in his cap hit being eliminated.

After his signing bonus is paid July 1st Tavares is only owed $775k. So the premise someone suggested was a mutually exclusive buyout. In which case Tavares receives his almost $11M in signing bonus and then forfeits the $775k in order to sign with another team.

It wasn't my idea, and clearly has zero percent chance of ever happening, but it is feasible even if some people don't like the idea.

Some people just like to be argumentative I guess.

The NHL has Standard Player Contracts which provide, at paragraph 12, that the team may terminate a player's contract if the player shall: (a) fail, refuse, or neglect to obey the Club's rules governing training and conduct of Players, if such failure, refusal or neglect should constitute a material breach.

The only way Tavares isn’t on the books next year is if he sustains a career ending injury. That’s it, there are no other legitimate scenarios.

Absolutely not true but the most likely scenario.

 

[ACC1224]

The NHL has Standard Player Contracts which provide, at paragraph 12, that the team may terminate a player's contract if the player shall: (a) fail, refuse, or neglect to obey the Club's rules governing training and conduct of Players, if such failure, refusal or neglect should constitute a material breach.

There isn’t a clause for ‘if everyone feels like it’?

The NHL has Standard Player Contracts which provide, at paragraph 12, that the team may terminate a player's contract if the player shall: (a) fail, refuse, or neglect to obey the Club's rules governing training and conduct of Players, if such failure, refusal or neglect should constitute a material breach.


Absolutely not true but the most likely scenario.

How is it not true? What is a legitimate scenario the team could employ?