Therick67
Registered User
I haven't gotten a raise in 2 years, but I'm supposed to care about any of these @#$holes? and I know, the real world and pro sports aren't the same thing.
Red Sox/MLB Hot Stove Part 2: Lockout Edition - 6 games lost, 156 to go
- Thread starter smithformeragent
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I haven't gotten a raise in 2 years, but I'm supposed to care about any of these @#$holes? and I know, the real world and pro sports aren't the same thing.
But that's just it. A regular schmuck like you or me SHOULDN'T care about this dispute because they are all just a bunch of unrelatable toolbags.
Nobody is asking you to feel pity for the players, just to understand the dynamics of the situation.
You guys clearly don’t care to learn about what’s going on with it then why comment on it and try to both-sides it? That’s all.
You guys clearly don’t care to learn about what’s going on with it then why comment on it and try to both-sides it? That’s all.
Gator Mike
Registered User
I think with any labor dispute, both sides deserve a slice of Blame Pie.
But that doesn't mean their slices are the same size.
But that doesn't mean their slices are the same size.
smithformeragent
Moderator
yeah I mean there’s a lockout, the players could technically accept every term the owners want and end it so they are partially responsible for it
But like you said those slices of blame for this aren’t the same size. You get maybe a little sliver for the players for not accepting every little thing the owners dictated and then the remaining 95% of the blame pie is on the people actually being unreasonable and doing comical stuff like slipping new shit into fine print at the last second before the deadline, after leaking false info of progress to the press to try and pressure the MLBPA into accepting their BS terms
Terrier
Registered User
McGarnagle
Yes.
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For everyone who is like "how does millionaires squabbling with billionaires affect me", high profile labor disputes that may end up in arbitration set precedent in collective bargaining agreements which may come to affect you if your job is unionized.
No one is saying that Darwinzon is going to be out on the street. I'd live very comfortably on a fifth of what he makes. It's a matter of principle that the owners are committing an unfair labor practice by surface bargaining as they generate revenue without the expenses by just delaying everything a month. The players aren't even picketing for higher salaries. Raising the CBT limit may have the knock-on effect of average salaries going up, but they're not actually crying poor. They're crying "hey why are a third of the teams in the league receiving more money in revenue sharing than they are expending in salary?"
I'm not a virulently pro-union/pro-worker person in general, but in this case looking at the plain facts and the behavior of everyone involved I don't know how anyone could possibly think there's any blame on anyone other than Manfred and the owners.
No one is saying that Darwinzon is going to be out on the street. I'd live very comfortably on a fifth of what he makes. It's a matter of principle that the owners are committing an unfair labor practice by surface bargaining as they generate revenue without the expenses by just delaying everything a month. The players aren't even picketing for higher salaries. Raising the CBT limit may have the knock-on effect of average salaries going up, but they're not actually crying poor. They're crying "hey why are a third of the teams in the league receiving more money in revenue sharing than they are expending in salary?"
I'm not a virulently pro-union/pro-worker person in general, but in this case looking at the plain facts and the behavior of everyone involved I don't know how anyone could possibly think there's any blame on anyone other than Manfred and the owners.
I still have a hard time pinning any of this on Manfred. For as much of a donkey as he is, he's taking his orders from the owners. And really, he can try to get both sides to meet and discuss but in the end he can't force an agreement.
McGarnagle
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Manfred is willing to eat half the regular season so he can get his expanded 14-team playoffs, as the playoffs provide sell-outs in gate revenue, massive broadcast contracts with Fox and TBS, and tons of ad revenue for the commercials they sell during that time.
And oh yeah, PLAYERS ARE NOT PAID SALARY FOR POSTSEASON GAMES. They get playoff shares which are distributed arbitrarily by teams. The playoff share pool last year was $90 million which sounds huge, but doing the math on it - ten teams, 25-man rosters, divide the 90m by 250 and you're at $360K per. Now the teams that go farther get more and the WC teams eliminated get less, but let's keep that average for sake of argument. If you get to the World series, say you play 4 games in the LDS, 6 in the LCS, 6 in the WS to total 16 games of high pressure postseason work. 360k/16 is 22.5K. Again, seems like a good amount of money but prorate that total to 162 and it's the equivalent of a $3.64 million salary for the whole year, which is below the average MLB salary of $4.17m (which has fallen over the last 3 years despite Harper/Tatis/Scherzer megacontracts). And that's just using averages, if you're the Yankees and lost in the WC game you probably got $500 and a bag of peanuts (though Gerrit Cole didn't even earn those peanuts). So in sum, Manfred's only negotiating point in the entire dispute is to try to maximize the revenue and profit turned by MLB owners while compelling the players to perform additional work for lesser monetary compensation.
He's just a total slimeball.
And oh yeah, PLAYERS ARE NOT PAID SALARY FOR POSTSEASON GAMES. They get playoff shares which are distributed arbitrarily by teams. The playoff share pool last year was $90 million which sounds huge, but doing the math on it - ten teams, 25-man rosters, divide the 90m by 250 and you're at $360K per. Now the teams that go farther get more and the WC teams eliminated get less, but let's keep that average for sake of argument. If you get to the World series, say you play 4 games in the LDS, 6 in the LCS, 6 in the WS to total 16 games of high pressure postseason work. 360k/16 is 22.5K. Again, seems like a good amount of money but prorate that total to 162 and it's the equivalent of a $3.64 million salary for the whole year, which is below the average MLB salary of $4.17m (which has fallen over the last 3 years despite Harper/Tatis/Scherzer megacontracts). And that's just using averages, if you're the Yankees and lost in the WC game you probably got $500 and a bag of peanuts (though Gerrit Cole didn't even earn those peanuts). So in sum, Manfred's only negotiating point in the entire dispute is to try to maximize the revenue and profit turned by MLB owners while compelling the players to perform additional work for lesser monetary compensation.
He's just a total slimeball.
I'm all for the fight. Have at it and go at the owners. If the players end up winning, good for them. I personally don't care what the final outcome is though.
You're saying Manfred but those reasons are why the owners are doing this. That's all I am saying. He's doing what the owners want because he ultimately works for them. In my eyes a commissioner should be tied to both sides. Let the players have a 50% say in who the commissioner is and half the commissioner's salary can come from the MLBPA. Then maybe you'd have a commissioner who could actually get something done here.
McGarnagle
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That's fair, I don't think everyone needs to be compelled to care for things outside of their own lives.
From my perspective, just as a fan of the game, the package the players are offering makes a much better product than what Manfred is pushing. IMO, higher CBT allows for better teams, especially in big markets. Competitive balance is fine and all in theory but in practice we all want to see the Yankees/Sox/Dodgers/Cubs/ load up and have epic playoff clashes like 2003 and 2004. Sorry to Minnesota fans, but that's how it is. Also, expanded playoffs in the way the owners are proposing makes the regular season practically meaningless and removes all drama from an August Sox/Yanks weekend series at Fenway. As a pure entertainment product, I'll take the players' proposal any day, even without taking any notion of worker/employer exploitation into account.
Smitty93
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Complete non-sequitur, but I just saw this and it made me miss the days when the Rays were bad.
JRull86
Registered User
McGarnagle
Yes.
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Johny Henry is worth 8.45x Mike Trout's net worth
Mike Trout is richer than any of us here could dream to be. John Henry is 8 Mike Trouts rich. Eight. Mike. Trouts. And he's shutting down the league to make it slightly more profitable for owners.
Wheeeee! Big whoop.
Unfortunately the owners are a necessary evil that you can't get rid of. If they don't fund the teams, you don't have a league. Also, there is no more spoiled union than the one in MLB. They make tennis brats look humble.
smithformeragent
Moderator
The term “impossible dream” came up in class a few weeks back. I mentioned the ‘67 Sox and explained that a time existed that the 1st place team in the American League faced the 1st place team in the National League in the World Series. No playoffs.
Moving to 3 divisions per league with one Wild Card was more than enough in terms of expanded playoffs.
I have a feeling that Covid is going to become a convenient excuse for many of these leagues pushing through radical changes on the field/ice/court and off of it.
Moving to 3 divisions per league with one Wild Card was more than enough in terms of expanded playoffs.
I have a feeling that Covid is going to become a convenient excuse for many of these leagues pushing through radical changes on the field/ice/court and off of it.
So Henry should be punished for trying to improve the equity of the league so that the small market teams can compete so they can pay for these players?
Unless you just want a three team league already losing investment from fans across the board, I don't know what to tell you.
more people make Darwinzon money than Trout money fella! And you’re still even wrong with trout money being only slightly less than what mlb owners
again, you’re just commenting on an issue you haven’t researched and you justify it with nonsense. It’s fine, just spare us. “You need owners too” yeah no shit, nobody is arguing that. That does not mean they can rob the labor of a fair deal for the value they provide.
No I was merely pointing out how off base the claim you made was that players only make slightly less than the owners. Don’t try to make the point anything other than what it was.
And for the last time, JUST BECAUSE THE PLAYERS MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU DOESNT MEAN THEY SHOULD SIGN AN UNFAIR LABOR DEAL. Here to help.
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