Red Sox/MLB Hot Stove Part 2: Lockout Edition - 6 games lost, 156 to go

[CDJ]

The minds are made up and it’s divided into two sections:

those who are actually- you know- reading what’s happening in reality with these negotiations and people who- you know- aren’t…..

 

[Johnnyduke]

The minds are made up and it’s divided into two sections:

those who are actually- you know- reading what’s happening in reality with these negotiations and people who- you know- aren’t…..

The difference here is you seem to care how the players make out in this deal. I simply don't. If they "beat" the owners, nice work by the union. Now let me get back to licking them boots!

 

[CDJ]

The difference here is you seem to care how the players make out in this deal. I simply don't. If they "beat" the owners, nice work by the union. Now let me get back to licking them boots!

ok so then- for the 4th time- why comment on something you clearly don’t care enough about to read up on??

That is my entire point. You guys do not know what you’re talking about in regards to this negotiation. This is not a personal attack or a flame, you simply dont care enough about it to weed it into it. You said it yourself, you don’t care! And that’s fine, just don’t act surprised when you make claims that aren’t rooted in reality about the negotiation and receive pushback on them

I’ve yet to get a single example of the players acting unreasonable here from the “both sides” gang. Again, they’re the ones willing to make concessions. They’re the ones that aren’t slipping BS into fine print right at the deadline. Not a single credible person from what I’ve seen has taken the owners side in the entire industry

 

[Johnnyduke]

ok so then- for the 4th time- why comment on something you clearly don’t care enough about to read up on??

I don't know what you're talking about. I HAVE been following the details. I simply don't care who wins the battle. For the millionth time (or billionth) I am not "rooting" for the owners to break the union.

 

[Lobster57]

Drop dead. Neither side has ever had clean hands when negotiating a new CBA.

lol, compelling argument.

 

[EvilDead]

ok so then- for the 4th time- why comment on something you clearly don’t care enough about to read up on??

That is my entire point. You guys do not know what you’re talking about in regards to this negotiation. This is not a personal attack or a flame, you simply dont care enough about it to weed it into it. You said it yourself, you don’t care! And that’s fine, just don’t act surprised when you make claims that aren’t rooted in reality about the negotiation and receive pushback on them

I’ve yet to get a single example of the players acting unreasonable here from the “both sides” gang. Again, they’re the ones willing to make concessions. They’re the ones that aren’t slipping BS into fine print right at the deadline. Not a single credible person from what I’ve seen has taken the owners side in the entire industry

One of big unreasonable ask I see the players having is the idea of them not transferring total control over rule changes to MLB in order to implement pace of play rules faster and expecting those things needing to be collectively bargained for. The continuation of the current approach makes the implementation of things such as the pitch clock or adjustments to the rules regarding the shift nigh impossible without the players kicking and screaming like histrionic toddlers in a Macy's. No other sports leagues in the world give that kind of power to a player's union where every single rule change, no matter how minor, has to be collectively bargained. Why the MLBPA thinks they are entitled to influence the pace at which adjustments to the rules can be made is beyond me. Another problem I have with the MLBPA with is their safeguarding of the players from the Astros who were heavily involved and coordinated the sign stealing cheating scandal, because it is the sign stealing epidemic that makes the wait time between pitches unbelievably long. Lastly, none of the financials that the union wants to see changed will ever trickle down to guys currently in the minors, who are most at risk. Those are the guys I actually feel for because they are drawing the shortest straw of all and win nothing from this and yet we are supposed to believe the Union are automatically the good guys in this? This is, to use pro wrestling terminology, a heel program here. And while I dislike MLB's owners for wanting to use analytics to water down negotiations in arbitration and further devalue player worth, I ultimately am in the corner of the owners because of the fact that they need to have the ability to improve the on the field product which the Union isn't letting them have. Whether they do it or not once they get that power is a totally different question, but they need to have the power over setting rules first.

 

[BMC]

lol classy, classy.


Provide examples from this negotiation please of the players trying to “nuke” everything. Was it when they were trying to make concessions while the owners weren’t or was it when they were trying to be reasonable and negotiate in good faith while the owners delayed and delayed and then tried to slip obviously unacceptable things in through the fine print at the negotiation deadline? While the owners tried to pressure them through the media with deliberate false info? Which part of that screamed “the players are nuking things” to you?


Again, you and others are just saying things. You’re not actually paying attention to what’s happening.

newsflash for you and some others- you are allowed to research a topic before commenting on it, just a heads up.


I guess I’ll go drop dead now

Another one for the ignore list.

 

[CDJ]

They’re more than willing to concede on pace of play stuff and that’s not even a real issue. They’re willing to concede on CBT. They’re willing to make concessions. I don’t understand this idea that they are rigid.

for the record the NBAPA is by far the most powerful. They make more money, they basically control their destination (ex: see what Zion is doing), they control pretty much everything.

The MLBPA has actually taken an L on the last couple. That’s not disputable, a graph has been posted in here proving that.

 

[CDJ]

Another one for the ignore list.

So I take it ya got nothing? No examples?

And why bother ignoring? if you have your way I’ll drop dead soon.

super strange for you to take it there btw. Kinda reprehensible tbh. I’d rather it not be deleted if I’m being honest.

 

[EvilDead]

They’re more than willing to concede on pace of play stuff and that’s not even a real issue. They’re willing to concede on CBT. They’re willing to make concessions. I don’t understand this idea that they are rigid.

for the record the NBAPA is by far the most powerful

The NBA Player's Association isn't more powerful than the MLBPA, but they are close. The only reason they seem more powerful is because of the top stars having more power to influence where they move compared to any other league. Take that aspect out of it, as well as the fact that there is less players thus a higher average salary per player, most players don't have the kind of control over their destiny in the NBA outside of the top percentile. I would in fact argue that the lower half of NBA players have less power than the lower half of MLB.

Furthermore, you say that the MLBPA is willing to concede on pace of play but the players themselves don't seem to be backing up that sentiment with their words in interviews. Not when guys like David Price and co say shit like "I'll take as long as I want to on the mound. No one is going to tell me when to throw the ball." Meanwhile you look at other pro baseball leagues overseas like the CPBL and they just implemented a 20 second pitch clock without the players hemming and hawing over it.

 

[CDJ]

The NBA Player's Association isn't more powerful than the MLBPA, but they are close. The only reason they seem more powerful is because of the top stars having more power to influence where they move compared to any other league. Take that aspect out of it, as well as the fact that there is less players thus a higher average salary per player, most players don't have the kind of control over their destiny in the NBA outside of the top percentile. I would in fact argue that the lower half of NBA players have less power than the lower half of MLB.

Furthermore, you say that the MLBPA is willing to concede on pace of play but the players themselves don't seem to be backing up that sentiment with their words in interviews. Not when guys like David Price and co say shit like "I'll take as long as I want to on the mound. No one is going to tell me when to throw the ball." Meanwhile you look at other pro baseball leagues overseas like the CPBL and they just implemented a 20 second pitch clock without the players hemming and hawing over it.

Agree to disagree on the players association, the players making the most money are generally the most powerful and that’s the NBA. It’s not just high end guys either, scrubs get paid.



The league didn’t even bring pace of play to the negotiating table in these talks, it’s completely an irrelevant issue when it comes to these CBA talks. It’s a misdirection, you can’t use it to “both sides” this.

MLB, MLBPA have not negotiated pace of play in CBA talks - Sports Illustrated

 

[McGarnagle]

Nathan Eovaldi and Rafael Devers combined make the same amount of money as Al Horford.

The NBAPA is way, way more powerful. They pretty much run the league.