Pre-Game Talk: Hot Rails to Hell - Oilers v Devils - Thurs @ 5:30

[Stoneman89]

Neither is a legitimate option. heh. You know, jk aside I never even understood the Yamamoto pick and said so many times. The team could have just gone with say Sam Gagner the whole time and drafted somebody else instead of Yama. Gagner is, and always was a better player and infinitely more talented, and was so available. The team ends up going with Sam Gagner 3X anyway. Its kinda funny. Sam should be getting more occasional looks with Drai as well. Sam can make some plays and score some goals.

I agree with Sam playing with Drai. Someone needs to pull the big man out of his slumber.

View attachment 787931

At lunch and the photo above the bar kinda looks like Drai... sensing that's a good omen.

So he's going to show up to the game inebriated?

 

[Drivesaitl]

I agree with Sam playing with Drai. Someone needs to pull the big man out of his slumber.

Again he's the only player that even scored last game. If Drai was sleeping a lot of the players were comatose last game. Nor was Drai making bad passes giving NYI odd man rushes like Nuge, McD, and Brown did.

In fairness Drai had had Foegele and Janmark for a handful of games. Having Nuge is at least now an option for cycle. Gagner would be another option as a third. Gagner can't really be a 2nd at his age and pace. But he can add to a line.

 

[Stoneman89]

Again he's the only player that even scored last game. If Drai was sleeping a lot of the players were comatose last game. Nor was Drai making bad passes giving NYI odd man rushes like Nuge, McD, and Brown did.

In fairness Drai had had Foegele and Janmark for a handful of games. Having Nuge is at least now an option for cycle. Gagner would be another option as a third. Gagner can't really be a 2nd at his age and pace. But he can add to a line.

I'm sorry, just because a guy scored on a shot (which Sorokin should have had, IMO), does not equate to a good game. Drai made his share of ill advised passes, and his play in the defensive zone where he loses his man is not helping. Not sure if coincidence, but when Nuge was put with him last game, RNH probably had his worst game of the season.

Again, not putting down Drai just because, but he has this December slump every single year, and this is no different. Blaming everyone else he plays with is not an excuse. His job is to drive lines, not sink with everyone else. He's not even producing when he plays with McDavid at this point for the most part. Yes, many other guys are sucking right now too, but they aren't getting 8 million bucks a year, full PP time, and the expectations are entirely different He'll get out of it, like he always does, and then be a driving force the rest of the way. Love the guy, but he's struggling right now, not sure how that can be argued.

Again, not picking on him, I've had criticism for lots of guys this year, but it is what it is, and he shouldn't be immune to it. I know you'll defend him to the death, but I'm just pointing out what I see and my opinion.

Maybe Sammy will be the potion to pull him out of it this year, just like Yamo did for Drai and RNH in his first year here.

 

[bone]

Brown just struck me as opportunistic. he's still that way. Opponents make a brutal play and somehow puck is on Browns stick. I view that as happenstance. Getting lucky. Sure Brown pursues pucks but his finish doesn't impress me. He isn't the volume chance player Hyman is either. Fact of the matter is Hyman was scoring more goals than brown before coming here and was ramping up, whereas Brown had markedly went down in goal scoring in Ottawa his last season. Also striking was the long stretches without a goal like his last 14 games in Ottawa. Brown had gone 18 games without notching a goal PRIOR to his severe injury. Again how was this going to be a worthy topsix fit here. Never believed that.

In anycase the "energy player" thing can get old. Foegele was stated to be that, Janmark stated to be that. A lot of players have a motor and not that hard to find. Brown had never really established as a consistent goal scorer.

This org never seems to find the players that would actually complement and finish our topsix. Toffoli was available multiple times, Hoffman available multiple times. One wouldn't have to hope those players would score, they would pot goals in droves. Either would notch 30 goals here in our topsix.

While I somewhat agree, going out and finding Hyman and Kane was exactly this. Guys that perfectly complemented and help fill out our top six. Let's not forget the season before they both joined the team our top six regularly featured three of Kubalik, Kassian, Chiasson, Neal and Yamamoto at any given moment.

The issue has been finding that sixth piece, but I'd also suggest most teams have a hard time finding that 6th piece that can be a consistent every day top 6 player.

 

[brentashton]

Again he's the only player that even scored last game. If Drai was sleeping a lot of the players were comatose last game. Nor was Drai making bad passes giving NYI odd man rushes like Nuge, McD, and Brown did.

In fairness Drai had had Foegele and Janmark for a handful of games. Having Nuge is at least now an option for cycle. Gagner would be another option as a third. Gagner can't really be a 2nd at his age and pace. But he can add to a line.

Gags playing with Leon still feels like a consolation prize for 29. And I like Sam but at this point of his career, expecting him to be a top 6 player alongside one of the world’s best?? It feels like a case of Bob Barker saying “Leon, you didn’t win the showcase of prizes but here’s a blender/toaster for participating today”.

LD just continues to get less than optimal winger linemates .

 

[Drivesaitl]

Gags playing with Leon still feels like a consolation prize for 29. And I like Sam but at this point of his career, expecting him to be a top 6 player alongside one of the world’s best?? It feels like a case of Bob Barker saying “Leon, you didn’t win the showcase of prizes but here’s a blender/toaster for participating today”.

LD just continues to get less than optimal winger linemates .

Its the whole history here. Its lol to me that Connor McDavid recruits Connor Brown to be here, waves pom poms for it to happen, and then Drai gets shouldered with him because after half a dozen games of doing flat out nothing McD figures he's not helpful after all, give me Nuge and Hyman!

lol

I'm sorry, just because a guy scored on a shot (which Sorokin should have had, IMO), does not equate to a good game. Drai made his share of ill advised passes, and his play in the defensive zone where he loses his man is not helping. Not sure if coincidence, but when Nuge was put with him last game, RNH probably had his worst game of the season.

Again, not putting down Drai just because, but he has this December slump every single year, and this is no different. Blaming everyone else he plays with is not an excuse. His job is to drive lines, not sink with everyone else. He's not even producing when he plays with McDavid at this point for the most part. Yes, many other guys are sucking right now too, but they aren't getting 8 million bucks a year, full PP time, and the expectations are entirely different He'll get out of it, like he always does, and then be a driving force the rest of the way. Love the guy, but he's struggling right now, not sure how that can be argued.

Again, not picking on him, I've had criticism for lots of guys this year, but it is what it is, and he shouldn't be immune to it. I know you'll defend him to the death, but I'm just pointing out what I see and my opinion.

Maybe Sammy will be the potion to pull him out of it this year, just like Yamo did for Drai and RNH in his first year here.

Always falls on Drai eh. He's the third highest paid player on the team. He's the only one that has brought it every season for the last 8yrs other than McD. Every other player has had down seasons. But Drai better never have that.....

Reality is a time is fast approaching where Drai won't have the extra gear to draw on. Lot of mileage on the odometer. No two forwards have been more used and abused by teams in toi than McD and Drai. McD is superhuman and can handle that. Drai never complains but he can't handle it.

 

[bone]

Gags playing with Leon still feels like a consolation prize for 29. And I like Sam but at this point of his career, expecting him to be a top 6 player alongside one of the world’s best?? It feels like a case of Bob Barker saying “Leon, you didn’t win the showcase of prizes but here’s a blender/toaster for participating today”.

LD just continues to get less than optimal winger linemates .

Expecting him to play top 6 for 30+ games this year isn't a good plan. Playing him top 6 for a stretch of 3-5 games when he's playing his best isn't a bad option.

Frankly at this point Brown has been given too many minutes up there, they should be rotating guys like Gagner, Foegele, eventually Holloway, Ryan and maybe even Hamblin and Janmark (when playing former teams of his) into that position for a game or two at a time to see what sticks, possibly even including Lavoie in that rotation at some point if they can cover the cap gymnastics to do so.

 

[Shanahanigans]

Again he's the only player that even scored last game. If Drai was sleeping a lot of the players were comatose last game. Nor was Drai making bad passes giving NYI odd man rushes like Nuge, McD, and Brown did.

In fairness Drai had had Foegele and Janmark for a handful of games. Having Nuge is at least now an option for cycle. Gagner would be another option as a third. Gagner can't really be a 2nd at his age and pace. But he can add to a line.

I'm critical of Drai as well but he's been stapled to Brown, who by all statistical measures has been the WORST forward in the league this year. Kane is a good sniper and hitter but not great at transition or board play. In fact, Kane and Brown might be the two worst forward on the team at getting the puck out on the defensive blue line. So, playing on a line with those 2 most of the season, Drai has to be the defensive guy, the guy who gets the puck out, the neutral zone transition guy, and the offensive zone distributor. It's too much to ask of one player. With all due respect to Foegele and Janmark, they are 3rd/4th liners respectively. We should try Holloway in the top 6 once he's back.

 

[bone]

I'm critical of Drai as well but he's been stapled to Brown, who by all offensive statistical measures has been the WORST Oilers forward in team history. Kane is a good sniper and hitter but not great at transition or board play. In fact, Kane and Brown might be the two worst forward on the team at getting the puck out on the defensive blue line. So, playing on a line with those 2 most of the season, Drai has to be the defensive guy, the guy who gets the puck out, the neutral zone transition guy, and the offensive zone distributor. It's too much to ask of one player. With all due respect to Foegele and Janmark, they are 3rd/4th liners respectively. We should try Holloway in the top 6 once he's back.

Corrected

 

[GrumpyKoala]

While I somewhat agree, going out and finding Hyman and Kane was exactly this. Guys that perfectly complemented and help fill out our top six. Let's not forget the season before they both joined the team our top six regularly featured three of Kubalik, Kassian, Chiasson, Neal and Yamamoto at any given moment.

The issue has been finding that sixth piece, but I'd also suggest most teams have a hard time finding that 6th piece that can be a consistent every day top 6 player.

yeah, I know a couple of team where finding the 3rd piece is an issue, not finding a perfect 6th piece is kind of normal\extra luxury

 

[Drivesaitl]

While I somewhat agree, going out and finding Hyman and Kane was exactly this. Guys that perfectly complemented and help fill out our top six. Let's not forget the season before they both joined the team our top six regularly featured three of Kubalik, Kassian, Chiasson, Neal and Yamamoto at any given moment.

The issue has been finding that sixth piece, but I'd also suggest most teams have a hard time finding that 6th piece that can be a consistent every day top 6 player.

Kane was an allstar player. An elite talent. Thats not an equivalent whatsoever. I loved it when we obtained Kane.

Kubalik? Do you mean Kahun?

Kahun scored 9goals/48GP his season here despite getting scrathed from lineup quite a lot and it being a Covid shortened season Connor Brown his last full season in Ottawa only hit 10 goals. At best Connor Brown was just going to be another nothing fill.

I'm critical of Drai as well but he's been stapled to Brown, who by all statistical measures has been the WORST forward in the league this year. Kane is a good sniper and hitter but not great at transition or board play. In fact, Kane and Brown might be the two worst forward on the team at getting the puck out on the defensive blue line. So, playing on a line with those 2 most of the season, Drai has to be the defensive guy, the guy who gets the puck out, the neutral zone transition guy, and the offensive zone distributor. It's too much to ask of one player. With all due respect to Foegele and Janmark, they are 3rd/4th liners respectively. We should try Holloway in the top 6 once he's back.

Kane isn't a good cycle player and not a great passer. I'd only put a Gagner in there because Gagner can play give and go. You need somebody on the line that can do that. Brown can't do anything.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'm sorry, just because a guy scored on a shot (which Sorokin should have had, IMO), does not equate to a good game. Drai made his share of ill advised passes, and his play in the defensive zone where he loses his man is not helping. Not sure if coincidence, but when Nuge was put with him last game, RNH probably had his worst game of the season.

Again, not putting down Drai just because, but he has this December slump every single year, and this is no different. Blaming everyone else he plays with is not an excuse. His job is to drive lines, not sink with everyone else. He's not even producing when he plays with McDavid at this point for the most part. Yes, many other guys are sucking right now too, but they aren't getting 8 million bucks a year, full PP time, and the expectations are entirely different He'll get out of it, like he always does, and then be a driving force the rest of the way. Love the guy, but he's struggling right now, not sure how that can be argued.

Again, not picking on him, I've had criticism for lots of guys this year, but it is what it is, and he shouldn't be immune to it. I know you'll defend him to the death, but I'm just pointing out what I see and my opinion.

Maybe Sammy will be the potion to pull him out of it this year, just like Yamo did for Drai and RNH in his first year here.

The middle lines have been incredible non productive. It's a bad sign when the team has to dismantle one of the top outscoring lines in the league to cajole some balanced scoring. A factor is possibly Kane being banged up but the Drai in the McDrai super elites needs to elevate his play driving to help get this team out of the ditch. His jump was better last game and got a break on the Sorokin goal which I thought might be blood in the water to adrenaline his game. This team badly needs line 2 to help support scoring. It falls to the second elite to drive.

Third line skates fast and look like they should help with scoring support. But lack the hands and the centreman is prone to pirouetting out of high danger areas to live in perimeter areas. Looking forward to Holloway getting back and see if he can drive some hard area play and effort.

 

[helloconga]

kind of a must win at this point. game will count. boys will do it big, turnaround starts tonight. 6-2 oil.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Expecting him to play top 6 for 30+ games this year isn't a good plan. Playing him top 6 for a stretch of 3-5 games when he's playing his best isn't a bad option.

Frankly at this point Brown has been given too many minutes up there, they should be rotating guys like Gagner, Foegele, eventually Holloway, Ryan and maybe even Hamblin and Janmark (when playing former teams of his) into that position for a game or two at a time to see what sticks, possibly even including Lavoie in that rotation at some point if they can cover the cap gymnastics to do so.

Yep. Thats always how I figure it should be. Players being rotated in to play with Drai. Its one of the reasons I wasn't opposed to Bjugstad retained as he's somebody that can occasionally play with talent as well. Foegele on the surface looks like that at times but he's very un predictable wherea Bjugstad can be part of an effective cycle. So if we had Bjug I would be interchangeable moving him or Holloway or Gagner on 2nd line with either Drai and Kane or Drai and Nuge.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The middle lines have been incredible non productive. It's a bad sign when the team has to dismantle one of the top outscoring lines in the league to cajole some balanced scoring. A factor is possibly Kane being banged up but the Drai in the McDrai super elites needs to elevate his play driving to help get this team out of the ditch. His jump was better last game and got a break on the Sorokin goal which I thought might be blood in the water to adrenaline his game. This team badly needs line 2 to help support scoring. It falls to the second elite to drive.

Third line skates fast and look like they should help with scoring support. But lack the hands and the centreman is prone to pirouetting out of high danger areas to live in perimeter areas. Looking forward to Holloway getting back and see if he can drive some hard area play and effort.

Drai would have the same pts McD has if he had an elite 5man unit to play with all season. On the overall this has been one of the more disappointing seasons from McD as well. Sure he superheated for awhile. He's slowed down too, and was again pointless last game. I say this often by McD had Nuge, Hyman, Booch and Ekholm as a 5 man unit which is essentially is our PP, only without Drai. ANYBODY should be able to produce with that 5 man unit. Its the most loaded 5 man unit in the league. Booch bringing so much to it, and on his path to being an allstar player. Boochs contribution alone this season can't be understated. When he's not scoring or pounding pucks for rebounds he's making sharp slap passes like magic.

Of McD or Drai, Leon is the one that at this stage needs more help because he's declining. But on this team McD gets all the help, almost always.

Nor was the McD line outscoring. They are just treading evens. Their GA is also high

 

[McShogun99]

Gags playing with Leon still feels like a consolation prize for 29. And I like Sam but at this point of his career, expecting him to be a top 6 player alongside one of the world’s best?? It feels like a case of Bob Barker saying “Leon, you didn’t win the showcase of prizes but here’s a blender/toaster for participating today”.

LD just continues to get less than optimal winger linemates .

Hyman always works better with Mcdavid and Nuge works with everyone. They should keep Mcdavid-Hyman and RNH-Draisaitl with the other wingers being whoever is playing good.

 

[elmeroil]

They have to find a way to win this no? How does a team win 8 straight then go streaking in the wrong direction? Yes I know the answer......Oilers Oylering

 

[Juxta Position]

Brown just struck me as opportunistic. he's still that way. Opponents make a brutal play and somehow puck is on Browns stick. I view that as happenstance. Getting lucky. Sure Brown pursues pucks but his finish doesn't impress me. He isn't the volume chance player Hyman is either. Fact of the matter is Hyman was scoring more goals than brown before coming here and was ramping up, whereas Brown had markedly went down in goal scoring in Ottawa his last season. Also striking was the long stretches without a goal like his last 14 games in Ottawa. Brown had gone 18 games without notching a goal PRIOR to his severe injury. Again how was this going to be a worthy topsix fit here. Never believed that.

In anycase the "energy player" thing can get old. Foegele was stated to be that, Janmark stated to be that. A lot of players have a motor and not that hard to find. Brown had never really established as a consistent goal scorer.

This org never seems to find the players that would actually complement and finish our topsix. Toffoli was available multiple times, Hoffman available multiple times. One wouldn't have to hope those players would score, they would pot goals in droves. Either would notch 30 goals here in our topsix.

But how much do Toffoli and Hoffman cost?

Brown had put up a career average of 40 p/82 games in his career up until he signed in Edmonton. and it's not like he was 37 years old, he's 29, stands to reason he might have a couple years left of effective play.

and to say the 18 games before his injury without scoring is a large enough sample size to say his career is cooked now, is kinda ridiculous. 18 games for a middle 6 player is a fairly common slump sample size, not necessarily a new normal.

to be clear, I'm not defending the player, he's been atrocious, all I'm saying is when the team is in the cap hell they are in, I don't begrudge a GM for trying to get creative and betting on player to outperform his contract on a short term deal. every single team that wins championships in the NHL have contracts like that on their roster, and when you gamble sometimes you lose.

 

[Drivesaitl]

But how much do Toffoli and Hoffman cost?

Brown had put up a career average of 40 p/82 games in his career up until he signed in Edmonton. and it's not like he was 37 years old, he's 29, stands to reason he might have a couple years left of effective play.

and to say the 18 games before his injury without scoring is a large enough sample size to say his career is cooked now, is kinda ridiculous. 18 games for a middle 6 player is a fairly common slump sample size, not necessarily a new normal.

to be clear, I'm not defending the player, he's been atrocious, all I'm saying is when the team is in the cap hell they are in, I don't begrudge a GM for trying to get creative and betting on player to outperform his contract on a short term deal. every single team that wins championships in the NHL have contracts like that on their roster, and when you gamble sometimes you lose.

Again Brown, a vet, only scored 10 goals all season his last year in Ottawa. If that was Yama, or Pulju, or Kahun or whoever that would be considered chicken shit. But for some reason its Connor Brown so somehow people though it was OK. Its as if there was a thouhgt of a Connor Brown that was much different than the player we would be getting, and people completely ignoring the whole lost season and that the player had not been scoring much for multiple years..

Its as if people don't even consider that missing an entire season is potentially career destroying to an ordinary player. The combo of the 10 goal season and the complete missed season was trouble. So that the likelihood is we would get a player that is nothing like the guy that had managed to score 20 formerly. That version was gone.

 

[brentashton]

Expecting him to play top 6 for 30+ games this year isn't a good plan. Playing him top 6 for a stretch of 3-5 games when he's playing his best isn't a bad option.

Frankly at this point Brown has been given too many minutes up there, they should be rotating guys like Gagner, Foegele, eventually Holloway, Ryan and maybe even Hamblin and Janmark (when playing former teams of his) into that position for a game or two at a time to see what sticks, possibly even including Lavoie in that rotation at some point if they can cover the cap gymnastics to do so.

I don’t disagree that spotting him in is the best use in that top 6 line area. I guess I am more lamenting the fact that he gets the ”seconds” and they just cant find a suitable winger at that, just one even, for him.

Again it points to the piss poor lack of forward depth here.

Someone remind me, did they try using Lavoie as a winger when he was up (easier to migrate from C to wing than the other way around)?

 

[TB12]

Over under is 3

HAMMER the over.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Drai would have the same pts McD has if he had an elite 5man unit to play with all season. On the overall this has been one of the more disappointing seasons from McD as well. Sure he superheated for awhile. He's slowed down too, and was again pointless last game. I say this often by McD had Nuge, Hyman, Booch and Ekholm as a 5 man unit which is essentially is our PP, only without Drai. ANYBODY should be able to produce with that 5 man unit. Its the most loaded 5 man unit in the league. Booch bringing so much to it, and on his path to being an allstar player. Boochs contribution alone this season can't be understated. When he's not scoring or pounding pucks for rebounds he's making sharp slap passes like magic.

Of McD or Drai, Leon is the one that at this stage needs more help because he's declining. But on this team McD gets all the help, almost always.

Nor was the McD line outscoring. They are just treading evens. Their GA is also high

This team would be underwater if line 1 wasn't super nova. They've smartly gone back to it apparently for yet another must win night. Calling this a disappointing season for McDavid washes over a significant injury which this elite athlete played through and came back before schedule to help cajole a corpse team. If/when he isn't going this team is likely to lose. That's a very hard reality of the state of this team's production. Of course McDavid has slowed down, he was between a 2 and 3 point per game production during the extended winning streak. Not sustainable for any mortal. haha.

Unfortunately Draisaitl's EV production has sagged this year. It's incredulous that he has only 5 EV goals. He needs to create more shot opportunities for himself and be more selfish as a perennial 50 goal scorer. His game is different as a centre, more methodical and heavy, and pace of play slower being the puck carrier. It's damn hard to carry a line as we've seen historically when this team has traditionally stacked its top line with its two elites.

Personally I don't worry about Draisaitl's game declining. He's in peak performance years and conditioning and I think his game will age well with its versatility of centre/wing. Hard reality of apex competition is driving offence and lines is hard. Unfortunately this team's depth is stretched and line 1 and 4 are going. Thankfully the pro players don't think like fans and view success through a team lens. A hard patch right now for the second elite who carries the weight of driving the support line. Hopefully it breaks for him soon. This team badly needs it.