Pre-Game Talk: Hot Rails to Hell - Oilers v Devils - Thurs @ 5:30

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

How many Hughes dives will turn into Oilers penalties...

Over under is 3

 

[bone]

How many Hughes dives will turn into Oilers penalties...

With him it may not even be dives, he just amongst the strangest edge control I've seen. He can explosive but every once in a while his feet defy gravity and end up above his head.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

 

[Sra1974]

Season May hang in the balance the next 36 hours. They need to show some fortitude and discipline here and get back on the right track. Losing both in the fashion they lost the last two would be a pretty strong indication this team is cooked.

Can not believe this team is in this situation and it’s Dec 21.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Should of just went and signed rattie would have out produced brown easily.

 

[BlackDogg]

With him it may not even be dives, he just amongst the strangest edge control I've seen. He can explosive but every once in a while his feet defy gravity and end up above his head.




View attachment 787886

All the Hughes are master divers. Something they take pride in. They will be inventing Hughes diving now jokes for years to come from these guys.

 

[Heavy Dee]

You're like doubling down with these comments even after all we've seen. jebus. Its like it July 1 all over and the same people saying this is a great acquisition.

There was no reason to believe Connor Brown was a topsix player here or anywhere in 2023. Myth from the start.

Holland signed him because he was a minimum salary forward and that's all he could afford because of his own stupidity.

He doesn't give a flying f*** about the bonus for next year because he has known for a year now he won't be back.

 

[MessierII]

Season May hang in the balance the next 36 hours. They need to show some fortitude and discipline here and get back on the right track. Losing both in the fashion they lost the last two would be a pretty strong indication this team is cooked.

Can not believe this team is in this situation and it’s Dec 21.

On the bright side this is a much better situation than they were in a month ago. Generally by the end of December we’re in a pretty shite situation every year and it works out. That’s my glass half full take.

 

[elmeroil]

With him it may not even be dives, he just amongst the strangest edge control I've seen. He can explosive but every once in a while his feet defy gravity and end up above his head.




View attachment 787886

That second one, wow!

 

[elmeroil]

"Willingness and desire to go to the net." This is spot on!!!! Great example is Gagner.

Gagner plays every game for the chance to tuck his kids in every night. Wish McLeod and company had the same type of motivation but they seem content skating around the outside and doing nothing

 

[Drivesaitl]

Holland signed him because he was a minimum salary forward and that's all he could afford because of his own stupidity.

He doesn't give a flying f*** about the bonus for next year because he has known for a year now he won't be back.

You were in favor of the acquisition when it was made. You felt the player would be of some value. I didn't.

 

[CycloneSweep]

You were in favor of the acquisition when it was made. You felt the player would be of some value. I didn't.

You were on it from the start.
I liked the idea until the details of the bonus came out lol.
The idea of bringing Brown in on a cheap deal with potential bonuses was good. But Holland managed to turn a good idea into an awful idea in seconds with the bonus structure.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm not telling half the story. When I say Brown's and Hyman's careers prior to signing in Edmonton are very similar that includes the injuries. Hyman was coming off multiple knee injuries as well in which he missed significant time over 2 different seasons. there were very real questions about his knees long term before signing in Edmonton, and I remember a lot of people around here saying it was a bad signing due to those injury factors.

All the same question marks were surrounding Hyman that were surrounding Brown, Hyman has worked out, Brown has not.

Yes Brown has flopped, and flopped hard, but not every signing can be Zach Hyman. Holland has taken some risks no doubt, some have worked some have failed spectacularly, but I'm not going to be flinging myself off a ledge every time a singing or trade doesn't work out.

I like the fact that the GM is at least trying to improve the team, instead going back to the Captain Dither days of a Steve Tambellini.

I do agree, that he has not handled the situation well when he had an "out" essentially fall in his lap, like 5 Mins 4 Ftg pointed out in another post, and Holland could've essentially wiped the slate clean, and did not. To me that's the frustrating aspect of this situation, not the signing itself.

Equivocating is lazy. Comparisons are. They are meaningless and have less predictive validity than might be thought. Hyman is Hyman, Brown is Brown.

Hyman was in ascendency coming here, Brown was not. People need to look a bit closer at the stats. Hyman had two 21 goal seasons in a row followed by another 15 in an injury shortened season. Hyman actually had an impressive 36 goals in his last 95 games in Toronto. This is nothing at all like Brown who had 10 goals last season in Ottawa and zero in 4 games his last season in Washington.

Hyman also only missed half of season of hockey, he didn't miss a complete season which is also a critical difference.

People make these comparisons seemingly for effect, and its the same bogus comparisons that were made July 1st when we obtained player. Why would anybody still be stating it today?

 

[russ99]

Oilers shooting and save % are both in the toilet

Frankly this is a massive cop out. The analytics community keeps pummeling us with PDO and how it will somehow magically regress back, but I see a team who seems to be allergic to work, being happy with high shot totals over successful events, passing the buck to the next teammate and unwilling to make the tough individual plays in the tough areas to be successful in both our zone and the opposition zone.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You were on it from the start.
I liked the idea until the details of the bonus came out lol.
The idea of bringing Brown in on a cheap deal with potential bonuses was good. But Holland managed to turn a good idea into an awful idea in seconds with the bonus structure.

It was always a bad deal because the player wasn't going to be that much. When I'd first heard the team talking about him as a topsix player my first impression was this was bogus, that he was not that, and that his value was drastically overstated here coming off injury and multiple seasons off his peak as a player.

But yeah, any bonus structure had to have actual performance clauses. That they made it completely without I called a "participation ribbon" contract at the time. This smelled from the start.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This I totally agree with. it was evident that Brown was not remotely up to speed after missing a full season, and he had the opportunity to essentially get a redo with the signing by assigning him to Bako, now they are on the hook for that money.

like I stated before it was a gamble, everyone knew how much of gamble it was, and although I like the idea that he was looking to improve the team in what are essentially creative ways when there was almost zero room under the cap, the gamble very obviously has not paid off.

Holland did have the opportunity to fix that mistake, and didn't. that's what people should be upset about.

Lol. A few of us were shouted out of the thread for suggestion this was a poor acquisition. Vast majority of the board were not only in favor of the deal they thought it was "great". lol the thread is still there for all to see. Whole lot of rewriting going on. People were talking about the deal as if we just obtained another Hyman. Thats exactly what people, and you, stated.

 

[CycloneSweep]

It was always a bad deal because the player wasn't going to be that much. When I'd first heard the team talking about him as a topsix player my first impression was this was bogus, that he was not that, and that his value was drastically overstated here coming off injury and multiple seasons off his peak as a player.

But yeah, any bonus structure had to have actual performance clauses. That they made it completely without I called a "participation ribbon" contract at the time. This smelled from the start.

I mean if it was like 1.5 mill bonus after 30 games played and then 2mill bonus if he say hit 40 points it would have been good. Cause right now Brown would have earned zero bonus and it was all we could afford this year and we would just send him down and chock it up as an attempt but a fail.
But that didn't happen. I had an extremely strong feeling that it was either going to be instant chemistry and a great deal or he would be 4th liner bad. And...he is worse than that, which is the only real surprise to me. I figured he would at least maybe be usable defensively but he isn't even that.

Again, the IDEA of Brown was great in theory, the contract execution, the teams use of him and his actual play is anything but.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Frankly this is a massive cop out. The analytics community keeps pummeling us with PDO and how it will somehow magically regress back, but I see a team who seems to be allergic to work, being happy with high shot totals over successful events, passing the buck to the next teammate and unwilling to make the tough individual plays in the tough areas to be successful in both our zone and the opposition zone.

I think the work is there generally but scoring confidence impacts all teams and its hitting the Oilers hard this year at EV. Its exactly that players start to doubt, they start stabbing, jamming pucks at net, stuffing pads instead of making better plays in tight. Not just the Oilers. Happens to all teams and even good teams. LA fired 44 shots last night and only got one goal, and only got it on a complete Jultz miscue that gave Lizotte an empty net while shorthanded. They couldn't buy a goal. its the plight of the Oilers some nights.

I mean if it was like 1.5 mill bonus after 30 games played and then 2mill bonus if he say hit 40 points it would have been good. Cause right now Brown would have earned zero bonus and it was all we could afford this year and we would just send him down and chock it up as an attempt but a fail.
But that didn't happen. I had an extremely strong feeling that it was either going to be instant chemistry and a great deal or he would be 4th liner bad. And...he is worse than that, which is the only real surprise to me. I figured he would at least maybe be usable defensively but he isn't even that.

Again, the IDEA of Brown was great in theory, the contract execution, the teams use of him and his actual play is anything but.

Obviously we disagree on this. I was fine with having Connor Brown on other clubs, believe me.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Can not believe this team is in this situation and it’s Dec 21.

The season was about to die in November but the winning streak bought us another month of meaningful hockey.

 

[94 Oil Drops]

I think the work is there generally but scoring confidence impacts all teams and its hitting the Oilers hard this year at EV. Its exactly that players start to doubt, they start stabbing, jamming pucks at net, stuffing pads instead of making better plays in tight. Not just the Oilers. Happens to all teams and even good teams. LA fired 44 shots last night and only got one goal, and only got it on a complete Jultz miscue that gave Lizotte an empty net while shorthanded. They couldn't buy a goal. its the plight of the Oilers some nights.


Obviously we disagree on this. I was fine with having Connor Brown on other clubs, believe me.

I'm just going to bug you a bit by saying that I bet you wish we had Yamamoto right now instead of Brown.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm just going to bug you a bit by saying that I bet you wish we had Yamamoto right now instead of Brown.

Neither is a legitimate option. heh. You know, jk aside I never even understood the Yamamoto pick and said so many times. The team could have just gone with say Sam Gagner the whole time and drafted somebody else instead of Yama. Gagner is, and always was a better player and infinitely more talented, and was so available. The team ends up going with Sam Gagner 3X anyway. Its kinda funny. Sam should be getting more occasional looks with Drai as well. Sam can make some plays and score some goals.

 

[Heavy Dee]

You were in favor of the acquisition when it was made. You felt the player would be of some value. I didn't.

Yep. I was wrong. As was Ken Holland.

 

[Juxta Position]

Equivocating is lazy. Comparisons are. They are meaningless and have less predictive validity than might be thought. Hyman is Hyman, Brown is Brown.

Hyman was in ascendency coming here, Brown was not. People need to look a bit closer at the stats. Hyman had two 21 goal seasons in a row followed by another 15 in an injury shortened season. Hyman actually had an impressive 36 goals in his last 95 games in Toronto. This is nothing at all like Brown who had 10 goals last season in Ottawa and zero in 4 games his last season in Washington.

Hyman also only missed half of season of hockey, he didn't miss a complete season which is also a critical difference.

People make these comparisons seemingly for effect, and its the same bogus comparisons that were made July 1st when we obtained player. Why would anybody still be stating it today?

Lazy or not, equivocations are ALWAYS used when talking about professional athletes. it's the vey basis of professional sports economic systems.

Yes Brown is Brown and Hyman is Hyman, but to say that stylistic comparisons of how they play, which was very similar, shouldn't come in to play makes no sense at all.

If you are looking for an Evander Kane type power forward to try and compliment your team, are you going to sign Sam Gagner to fill that role because "equivocating is lazy" ?

Brown had built a strong reputation in Ottawa as an effective energy player who can penalty kill and chip in with solid middle 6 scoring numbers, sounds pretty comparable to Hyman, who, granted, had slightly better offensive numbers, but that is also why Hyman got paid more money.

The fact is they wanted someone who could PK, play with pace and energy like Hyman, chip in some offense and play with the best player in the world (and Brown had done that in junior), and it has failed monumentally. But I won't begrudge Holland for trying when his options were severely limited.

 

[ElysiumAB]

At lunch and the photo above the bar kinda looks like Drai... sensing that's a good omen.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Lazy or not, equivocations are ALWAYS used when talking about professional athletes. it's the vey basis of professional sports economic systems.

Yes Brown is Brown and Hyman is Hyman, but to say that stylistic comparisons of how they play, which was very similar, shouldn't come in to play makes no sense at all.

If you are looking for an Evander Kane type power forward to try and compliment your team, are you going to sign Sam Gagner to fill that role because "equivocating is lazy" ?

Brown had built a strong reputation in Ottawa as an effective energy player who can penalty kill and chip in with solid middle 6 scoring numbers, sounds pretty comparable to Hyman, who, granted, had slightly better offensive numbers, but that is also why Hyman got paid more money.

The fact is they wanted someone who could PK, play with pace and energy like Hyman, chip in some offense and play with the best player in the world (and Brown had done that in junior), and it has failed monumentally. But I won't begrudge Holland for trying when his options were severely limited.

Brown just struck me as opportunistic. he's still that way. Opponents make a brutal play and somehow puck is on Browns stick. I view that as happenstance. Getting lucky. Sure Brown pursues pucks but his finish doesn't impress me. He isn't the volume chance player Hyman is either. Fact of the matter is Hyman was scoring more goals than brown before coming here and was ramping up, whereas Brown had markedly went down in goal scoring in Ottawa his last season. Also striking was the long stretches without a goal like his last 14 games in Ottawa. Brown had gone 18 games without notching a goal PRIOR to his severe injury. Again how was this going to be a worthy topsix fit here. Never believed that.

In anycase the "energy player" thing can get old. Foegele was stated to be that, Janmark stated to be that. A lot of players have a motor and not that hard to find. Brown had never really established as a consistent goal scorer.

This org never seems to find the players that would actually complement and finish our topsix. Toffoli was available multiple times, Hoffman available multiple times. One wouldn't have to hope those players would score, they would pot goals in droves. Either would notch 30 goals here in our topsix.