Hornqvist hit on McAvoy | No supplemental discipline

[BruinLVGA]

You are debating what YOU think should be done and what IS allowed under NHL rules. As I stated earlier in this thread, unless the NHL changes the rules, this is legal whether fans like it or not.

One question: do you like someone being hit in the head, and at full force at that?

 

[ottawah]

My pov is that your analogy is simplistic. These players are professional and their reaction are at the same level to the speed and game they are in. A half second for These players is ALOT of time! You need to be in control of your body. The same is said with your hockey stick. Hit to the head is legal or not? That is the question.

Not blaming Hornqvist... he was doing hos job to hit hard a good player. But, Macavoy was in a vulnerable position and the hit was directly to the head. Is it or not legal. Is it what NHL wants or not.

For me it is a reviewable hit and needed consequences.

So do you feel that if a player passes the puck when an opposing player is 1 foot away at full speed delivering a check, then that a penalty for hitting a player without the puck?

The league has set a standard for the amount of time a player can react, its 1/2 second. So yes, in this case it is relevant.

 

[BruinLVGA]

a lot of nhl fans would love it if scoring was down 50% and useless goons were prevalent in the game again. it's sad.

not only was it a hit to the head (which is illegal), it was also charging as you mentioned.

Exactly.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Yes, but you always have to follow the same logic as hitting a guy without the puck. Its about how much time you have between when it would be a good hit and when it would be bad, and the NHL allows players to perform a hit 1/2 second after a player stops possession of the puck, that is their general standard. It was in the last half second that Macavoy bent over a lot of made head contact inevitable. By the time he did that it was too late for Hornqvist to stop.

Hockey is a very fast sport, and the slo mo reply does not do it justice. At full speed the faster hockey players are moving at ~30 miles an hour. At that speed they are moving at 21.6 feet per half second. That is roughly the distance between the red and blue line.

Now Hornqvist was not moving at that speed, but pretty fast. He likely had to make the decision when he was 15 feet away whether to check or not and at that point he is committed. When I look at the video, when he was at the point he had to commit, Macavoys head was not in a dangerous position for where Hornqvist checked him. Hornqvist gets there .5 seconds earlier, this is not even a thread.

Just take out a watch, and see how fast a half second goes by. That is why we see hits without the puck, and hits like this. The game is just so fast the players have a fraction of a second to make a commitment. Broken down in 15 frames shown one at a time it looks brutal, but in fact it is not.

I understand that he did commit to the hit. That goes without saying because he can't just stop on a dime. But he didn't let up even a tiny bit, he came in instead like a freight train. It is obvious that the guy wasn't concerned if he was going to hit another player straight in the forehead like he did. It's not a good look on Hornqvist. At all.

The NHL needs to get its shit together and simply deem any hit from the neck up and from the knees down illegal. These are probably the highest risk areas for ending a player's career and as such, they need to be off limits.

 

[DearDiary]

One question: do you like someone being hit in the head, and at full force at that?

What should Hornqvist have done? A clean hit was impossible with McAvoys positioning and he didn't have enough time to stop or even react (NHL uses 0.65 sec reaction speed to judge).

 

[GloryDaze4877]

The simultaneous "we're really tough and we beat everyone up" act combined with the "if a player puts himself in a dangerous position you have to not hit" act is a real non-starter. Jack Edwards walking on the edge of a knife trying to both assert the physical macho dominance of his team while still whining about his team getting hit.

There's a line Cherry used to say along the lines of "you're not allowed to hit our stars, and you have to let us do whatever we want" which certainly plays well within a fanbase but it doesn't win an argument. Chara's big right hook blindsiding Kessel in the scrum is a more dangerous action than Hornqvist's hit.

1) Jack Edwards is an idiot.

2) Chara’s “Punch” to Kessel was not big, wasn’t a hook, and wasn’t blindsiding . Talk about exaggeration. It was a love tap and not nearly as dangerous as the Hornqvist hit.



That being said, if I was Thrill I would have been a little ticked too. He wasn’t really doing anything. Chara was just probably fired up from the hit on McAvoy. You could see Phil was like, “WTF DUDE!”.

Even though I think that Hornqvist could have avoided the hit (and it was illegal), I actually liked the way McAvoy dealt with it. No whining, just came back and tried to hit him clean as much as he could the rest of the game. It was a bad look for Malkin and Hornqvist to be upset about McAvoy’s hit as it was completely legal. I have always thought Malkin was kind of a baby, and he did nothing to change my opinion there.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

So do you feel that if a player passes the puck when an opposing player is 1 foot away at full speed delivering a check, then that a penalty for hitting a player without the puck?

The league has set a standard for the amount of time a player can react, its 1/2 second. So yes, in this case it is relevant.

If your going to hit a player at full speed, them you are not using your body to seperate a player from the puck, but hitting to hurt. If an NHL player can't avoid to hit a player to the head with a half second to react, i have my thoughts on hos imtention with that hit. Crosby will score 99% of time if you let him a half second to shoot!

 

[BruinLVGA]

What should Hornqvist have done? A clean hit was impossible with McAvoys positioning and he didn't have enough time to stop or even react (NHL uses 0.65 sec reaction speed to judge).

Let up, don't hit full force. Seeing that McAvoy had just gotten the puck under control and didn't see Hornqvist coming, even a small hit would have separated him from the puck and probably gotten him to fall down.

 

[tacogeoff]

hit to the head by penguins player, nothing from players safety...at least they are being consistent.

 

[DearDiary]

Let up, don't hit full force. Seeing that McAvoy had just gotten the puck under control and didn't see Hornqvist coming, even a small hit would have separated him from the puck and probably gotten him to fall down.

The hit was all head. McAvoy would have been rushed to the hospital on a stretcher if it was full force

 

[BruinLVGA]

The simultaneous "we're really tough and we beat everyone up" act combined with the "if a player puts himself in a dangerous position you have to not hit" act is a real non-starter. Jack Edwards walking on the edge of a knife trying to both assert the physical macho dominance of his team while still whining about his team getting hit.

There's a line Cherry used to say along the lines of "you're not allowed to hit our stars, and you have to let us do whatever we want" which certainly plays well within a fanbase but it doesn't win an argument. Chara's big right hook blindsiding Kessel in the scrum is a more dangerous action than Hornqvist's hit.

Saying that a glancing blow by a fist is "more dangerous" than a couple of hundred pounds going 25mph (or something like that) hitting one right smack in between the eyes is LAUGHABLE.

 

[BruinLVGA]

1) Jack Edwards is an idiot.

2) Chara’s “Punch” to Kessel was not big, wasn’t a hook, and wasn’t blindsiding . Talk about exaggeration. It was a love tap and not nearly as dangerous as the Hornqvist hit.



That being said, if I was Thrill I would have been a little ticked too. He wasn’t really doing anything. Chara was just probably fired up from the hit on McAvoy. You could see Phil was like, “WTF DUDE!”.

Even though I think that Hornqvist could have avoided the hit (and it was illegal), I actually liked the way McAvoy dealt with it. No whining, just came back and tried to hit him clean as much as he could the rest of the game. It was a bad look for Malkin and Hornqvist to be upset about McAvoy’s hit as it was completely legal. I have always thought Malkin was kind of a baby, and he did nothing to change my opinion there.

All it took for Malkin to be stopped immediately was Acciari, who looks like a child compared to Malkin. Let that sink in...

 

[BruinLVGA]

The hit was all head. McAvoy would have been rushed to the hospital on a stretcher if it was full force

Or maybe not.

 

[northeastern]

No discipline or not I still don't like the hit, McAvoy needs to be smarter but a hit like this could hurt someone badly and the NHL just said it's okay to contact the head first in my opinion (as long as the head is down)...

Making contact with the head first regardless of the heads position needs to be addressed and prevented, both teams here understand how bad concussions can be for a player/team

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Looks like that American kid needs to keep his head up.

 

[MikeK]

Solid hockey hit

 

[BruinLVGA]

No discipline or not I still don't like the hit, McAvoy needs to be smarter but a hit like this could hurt someone badly and the NHL just said it's okay to contact the head first in my opinion (as long as the head is down)...

Making contact with the head first regardless of the heads position needs to be addressed and prevented, both teams here understand how bad concussions can be for a player/team

It's about time that the league completely outlaws these (and in my opinion, also any hit to the knees too. It's another career-ending spot), at least those where the head is the principal point of impact (= it absorbs the brunt of the impact).

 

[Killion]

Enough already.... You know who you are & you know what your doing.... Start being civil NOW.

 

[Edmonton East]

Great hit!

 

[radapex]

But how about the principal point of impact? He caught nothing but head.
By the way, it doesn't matter what part of the body one hits with, it's the part of the body that gets hit that matters, rules-wise.

I think the key to this is the next part of the rule:

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted. In determining whether contact with an opponent's head was avoidable, the circumstances of the hit including the following shall be considered:

(i) Whether the player attempted to hit squarely through the opponent’s body and the head was not "picked" as a result of poor timing, poor angle of approach, or unnecessary extension of the body upward or outward.

(ii) Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable.

(iii) Whether the opponent materially changed the position of his body or head immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit in a way that significantly contributed to the head contact.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/rules/2017-2018-NHL-rulebook.pdf

So by the rulebook, the hit wouldn't be deemed illegal because

(a) the hit was lined up completely body on body; and,
(b) the head was the principal point of contact because McAvoy was leaning forward

So the hit only actually fails on 1 of their 3 pieces of criteria -- McAvoy didn't change the position of his body or head.

 

[BruinLVGA]

I think the key to this is the next part of the rule:



http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/rules/2017-2018-NHL-rulebook.pdf

So by the rulebook, the hit wouldn't be deemed illegal because

(a) the hit was lined up completely body on body; and,
(b) the head was the principal point of contact because McAvoy was leaning forward

So the hit only actually fails on 1 of their 3 pieces of criteria -- McAvoy didn't change the position of his body or head.

Yes, this was posted earlier. I think that "i" might apply, not "ii" nor "iii". Still, I think that the league is leaving a loophole open for disaster. Head hits where the head absorbs the brunt of the impact need to be expunged completely, no ifs or buts.

 

[Helistin]

no ifs or buts.

There are plenty of if and buts here. If playing with your head down would grant a cloak of 'not allowed to be hit' it would basically remove hitting from the game completely since everyone start doing it if it would make you untouchable. Second , it would reward being bad in your profession of hockey.
Maybe players who don't know how protect themselves and play safely for their own sake could be sent to summer course organized by the NHL or NHLPA where they could learn it.

 

[RomanEmpire]

But Forsberg got 3 games. DoPS is a jooooooke

 

[BruinLVGA]

There are plenty of if and buts here. If playing with your head down would grant a cloak of 'not allowed to be hit' it would basically remove hitting from the game completely since everyone start doing it if it would make you untouchable. Second , it would reward being bad in your profession of hockey.
Maybe players who don't know how protect themselves and play safely for their own sake could be sent to summer course organized by the NHL or NHLPA where they could learn it.

I know that there are plenty of ifs or buts, but they should not be there. That's what I am saying.

And no, forbidding hits to the head where the head sustains the brunt of the impact does not equal granting a "cloak" to someone skating with the head down.
To stop a player going forward with the puck there's plenty of options (that also include plenty of physicality, like hits not involving the head or other physical play like taking the body for example) that don't necessarily involve turning the brain of a player into scrambled eggs.
You make it sound like the only way to stop a player is to deliver a brutal hit. I am sure that you are aware that the kind of hits you are advocating are not such a common thing and players somehow still get stopped all the time.

About the bolded... I think that's a little attempt at a dig at McAvoy? No comment...

 

[chizzler]

I know that there are plenty of ifs or buts, but they should not be there. That's what I am saying.

And no, forbidding hits to the head where the head sustains the brunt of the impact does not equal granting a "cloak" to someone skating with the head down.
To stop a player going forward with the puck there's plenty of options (that also include plenty of physicality, like hits not involving the head or other physical play like taking the body for example) that don't necessarily involve turning the brain of a player into scrambled eggs.
You make it sound like the only way to stop a player is to deliver a brutal hit. I am sure that you are aware that the kind of hits you are advocating are not such a common thing and players somehow still get stopped all the time.

About the bolded... I think that's a little attempt at a dig at McAvoy? No comment...

This what you get for pleading your case here.