ANd even if they are in a lesser role, I'd rather have a cheap ELC working his way up the roster with upside than an aging FA vet who is more likely to decline than anything.
For Hagg that'll be 15-16 at the earliest.
I can't wait til it's time for Morin and Hagg to compete for roster spots.
Definitely. Imagine if this team had controlled RFA's in place of Lecavalier and Streit. Neither guy has been bad, but it can be argued that both are overpaid and have to chance to be severely overpaid in the near future during their decline.
The Flyers currently have 20 million dollars tied to 4 contracts that take players deep into their 30s...so deep into their decline years.
That's bad.
I'm including Pronger since that contract bites the team every Summer.
Sure, sometimes you have to make a big move where you part with a prospect, or high picks.
But you do not want to do that for consecutive years, or you will mortgage your future for nothing more than a chance of contending immediately at the expense of the future, when proper team building can give you that same chance but down the road without dooming the team to upheaval.
http://flyers.nhl.com/club/draftstats.htm?year=All&team=PHI
Missing a second or first rounder (or both) for 2008, 2009, and 2010, trading the first from 2008, and from 2007 had/is having a huge effect on the prospect pool and the team.
I challenge you to find a team that is still in contention after 4 straight years of that stuff. Off the top of my head I can't think of one. The value of high draft picks cannot be underestimated in the cap age. That's where you HAVE to do the bulk of your team building if you want success. The Flyers neglected that for a long-ass time and paid/are paying the price.
I mean...come on. Can you REALLY look at that strategy and declare it a success compared to more stable team-building models? Hell, it's not even something the team is capable of doing anymore because it flat out isn't sustainable. Now the team is where they're currently at, trying to recover and aim for the future...and for once in the cap era it looks like they're building responsibly and patiently, but only after their aggressive strategy went as predicted and blew up in management's collective faces.
But at the same time, what are you supposed to do when you are in the running for a Cup at the deadline. Hang on to the picks and hope you are good with what you have, then hope that those picks will develop into NHLers four years down the road? I understand what you are saying, and as I have stated, I am not now, nor have I ever been, of the opinion that you HAVE to trade draft picks to be successful or that draft picks are worthless. I'm simply saying, when your team looks close, trading draft picks (even firsts) is not a bad thing.
Obviously, I would prefer to have all our draft picks over the past few years, but at the same time, what are you going to do...trade for Pronger then NOT go for it in subsequent years? What was the point of trading for Pronger then?
What, so you think every playoff team should trade away their firsts until it causes a team collapse when that becomes unsustainable? So, do what the Flyers did...trade your picks and prospects until you're no longer a contender. That seems dumb. In fact, that's a terrible strategy.
How about this: Build responsibly so you don't have to irresponsibly trade high picks and young talent away for years in a desperate attempt to shore up holes.
That sounds smarter, doesn't it?
What, so you think every playoff team should trade away their firsts until it causes a team collapse when that becomes unsustainable? So, do what the Flyers did...trade your picks and prospects until you're no longer a contender. That seems dumb. In fact, that's a terrible strategy.
How about this: Build responsibly so you don't have to irresponsibly trade high picks and young talent away for years in a desperate attempt to shore up holes.
That sounds smarter, doesn't it?
The only home grown players to come up through the system on this team are Giroux, Read, Couturier, Gustafsson, Raffl, and Rinaldo. Thats one impact player, two third liners, 2 depth forwards, and a depth defenseman. Thats a massive problem. Look around the league at all of the consistantly good/great teams and they are all built from within.
Chicago- Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Shaw, Saad, Hjalmarsson, Leddy, Bickell, Pirri, Kruger, Bollig, and Smith.
Boston- Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, Rask, Krug, Hamilton, Marchand, and Reilly Smith.
The list goes on and on including teams like Colorado, St. Louis, LA, Anaheim, and Detroit. Every top team in the league is built from within. Even teams like the Pens that don't have a ton of home grown players still have their 3 best players and their starting goalie that are home grown.
That's how you stay cheap, and that's how you stay consistantly good. In the NHL, your contract is usually based on past performance not future projections which is why you see guys like Hartnell, Streit, Lecavalier, and Timonen getting either too much money or too many years. The Flyers need to keep guys like Morin, Haag, Cousins, Laughton, Gost, Lauridsen, McGinn, and Stolarz. If 4-5 of those guys become full time NHL players which isn't a stretch, that's 4-5 guys on cheap contracts. If they perform so well that you con't resign them, you trade them away then, not now. You'll get much more for your return after they proved themselves than you will now.
This isn't just true in the NHL, it's true across sports. Look at the Phillies, they built from within and won a World Series. They then tried to chase that success by letting go of their own and signing older "proven" players and they've been regressing ever since.
This falls squarely on the shoulders of Homer. I've supported him in the past but at this point, I can't ignore the facts anymore, he just isnt getting the job done.
The only home grown players to come up through the system on this team are Giroux, Read, Couturier, Gustafsson, Raffl, and Rinaldo. Thats one impact player, two third liners, 2 depth forwards, and a depth defenseman. Thats a massive problem. Look around the league at all of the consistantly good/great teams and they are all built from within.
Chicago- Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Shaw, Saad, Hjalmarsson, Leddy, Bickell, Pirri, Kruger, Bollig, and Smith.
Boston- Krejci, Bergeron, Lucic, Rask, Krug, Hamilton, Marchand, and Reilly Smith.
The list goes on and on including teams like Colorado, St. Louis, LA, Anaheim, and Detroit. Every top team in the league is built from within. Even teams like the Pens that don't have a ton of home grown players still have their 3 best players and their starting goalie that are home grown.
That's how you stay cheap, and that's how you stay consistantly good. In the NHL, your contract is usually based on past performance not future projections which is why you see guys like Hartnell, Streit, Lecavalier, and Timonen getting either too much money or too many years. The Flyers need to keep guys like Morin, Haag, Cousins, Laughton, Gost, Lauridsen, McGinn, and Stolarz. If 4-5 of those guys become full time NHL players which isn't a stretch, that's 4-5 guys on cheap contracts. If they perform so well that you con't resign them, you trade them away then, not now. You'll get much more for your return after they proved themselves than you will now.
This isn't just true in the NHL, it's true across sports. Look at the Phillies, they built from within and won a World Series. They then tried to chase that success by letting go of their own and signing older "proven" players and they've been regressing ever since.
This falls squarely on the shoulders of Homer. I've supported him in the past but at this point, I can't ignore the facts anymore, he just isnt getting the job done.
DFF, I don't know how to make this any simpler for you:
You are defending a strategy that has failed in spectacular fashion. Half a decade of trading away 1st and 2nd rounders or the players we took in those rounds left the team in a massive hole they're still trying to crawl out of, and with the D situation and contracts on this team they've still got a ways to go.
Even Holmgren has moved on from that strategy as much as possible.
It is no longer a theory that this strategy you're endorsing is unsustainable. It was proven as fact.
Yes, it is fine to make one or two such moves. However, that's flat out NOT what the Flyers did. They did it over and over and over again. And, it failed. These are facts.
Oh, and if Homer has only moved away from his old strategy because the team is no longer contending and plans on going back to his old ways once they can contend, he needs to be fired immediately, before we repeat the cycle of June 23, 2011.
"Hooray! I've built a nice house! It could be one of the best! Now let me spend years scooping out the foundation! Let's see what happens!"