Holland's Replacement

[The Zetterberg Era]

Alright we see this has gone up again, so I am curious beyond just the #fireHolland posts and things of that nature what is the plan of those of you that want this?

Who are you going to get? Do you honestly believe Tampa or Dallas or any other team is going to grant us permission to talk to their GMs? You think Yzerman is going to trade MSL and then just walk out the door, does that strike you as the loyal Yzerman we all know? I was actually surprised to see Nill at the game tonight given he left for a job under Jimmy Lites, but he isn't coming back either.

The Babcock extension crowd at least had names and ideas why Lavy or Blashill might provide a new voice or systematic approach.

What is your plan, drum out Holland for what exactly, Ron Hextall?

We expect some substantial roster turnover even with Holland in charge this off-season, what are you expecting the new guy to do? More often than not they move a bulk of your prospects they didn't draft or roster players that can create a major change i.e. most of the guys people try protecting around here. Just curious what the expectation of the new guy would be, what you would say when he started moving some of the younger players and maybe a few of the older guys that we like as they are the only ones with value?

I mean if there is this much outrage over Jarnkrok and like others I don't like dealing him for that even if we were worried about his defection. But why believe a new voice from outside of the system is going to ride in like a white night and protect only the things you care about? The odds of a Tatar or somebody like that being dealt increase exponentially in my opinion.

My guess is Holland still has a couple years left even without the playoffs before his job is truly at stake, but I have to admit I am curious who you guys/gals all have lined up to take over? It's also basically necessary that he has a working relationship with Holland anyway as I cannot see him leaving the organization entirely even if we take his GM powers he will move into a Devellano role. But what is the progression, what are our options? I honestly want to know these answers from those of you that feel this way.

His last several years have been very disappointing, but just looking for something a little different than fire him or a list of his failures, what are your actual plans?

Mods didn't know what prefix to put around this, it isn't speculation because that implies that it is a little more realistic than it is. The most realistic option is Holland decides at some point this off-season that he is moving farther upstairs after next year the last year in his current contract. However, I feel like we should be having at least a more tangible conversation if we are going to have it, we know the off-season two years ago was a disaster along with the Quincey trade, we are worried about Weiss, and certainly none of us like how Jarnkrok unfolded for whatever reason, but seriously what is the plan then, doesn't it concern you at all to drum out a HHOF builder for a complete unknown?

Click to read more...

 

[The Zermanator]

I wonder if Lidstrom would have any interest? He may not want to leave Sweden, though. He's got many of those personal qualities that Yzerman has that have made him a competent GM. He's patient, measured and controlled. He's got long ties to this organization and I think he's be good at playing a long game as GM. I doubt he'd sell the farm prospects-wise.

I'd love for him to have an opportunity as GM, I'm just not sure he'd want it. Maybe in a few years when his sons are grown up, Holland will step down and Lidstrom will step in?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Lidstrom would/should have stayed stateside if he wanted to do that, did find his comments about running the Swedish National team interesting, that maybe somewhere down the road he is thinking about something like this but more likely in the SHL. Sounds like he is waiting for his kids to get older before doing anything substantial until then he will be an understudy of Hakan Andersson. Not a bad thing, but I don't see him as anywhere near prepared. Certainly I would be open to him being Assistant GM or whatever Yzerman's title was initially leading into that before taking over, but Holland would be around for several years still under this scenario, likely another five year deal.

 

[Amrcn Ftbll]

Yeah, I don't particularly see lidstrom wanting to do that. To have to uproot his family all over again after they had settled back in sweden doesn't seem ideal.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

From outside the org...how do posters feel about Burke?

I'd love to have Yzerman back, don't know details, but have a feeling he will be back with the Detroit org. at some point.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

From outside the org...how do posters feel about Burke?

I'd love to have Yzerman back, don't know details, but have a feeling he will be back with the Detroit org. at some point.

I honestly don't think we would get permission to talk to either guy, you have to ask that, they are under contract. Most lateral moves are blocked on principle, they need to represent at least a title bump. Vinik has no real reason to release Yzerman to us, sure he would be someone everyone would throw out, but do we know we can do that and we sure as hell cannot reach out to Yzerman and Tampa behind Holland's back. You have to fire him and hope you can talk to some of these guys. I mean could you lure Poile with a huge contract or would the Wings now really run by Chris Ilitch show the money to some other established GM, maybe, but chances we are even granted the right to talk are slight, ruling out how the key GMs themselves might feel. I have always hoped Yzerman would one day return, he hasn't sold his house, he has kept his ties, but does he leave, also would Stevie himself be outraged at the idea of firing Holland?

 

[Vatican Roulette]

I honestly don't think we would get permission to talk to either guy, you have to ask that, they are under contract.

I thought Burke was president, acting GM. I mean, probably still have to get permission, but would you be against it?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I thought Burke was president, acting GM. I mean, probably still have to get permission, but would you be against it?

Do I want Burke over Holland? No, I cannot say that I do even if I haven't been totally happy with Kenny's work the last couple seasons, I don't see Brian Burke as an upgrade.

This is ultimately a part of why I started this thread, name guys you want heads up over him, see if they are even available, what is the plan?

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Do I want Burke over Holland? No, I cannot say that I do even if I haven't been totally happy with Kenny's work the last couple seasons, I don't see Brian Burke as an upgrade.

This is ultimately a part of why I started this thread, name guys you want heads up over him, see if they are even available, what is the plan?

Agreed, and I like the thread premise, just tossing a name out there.

I will say though, after the season is over this thread will have a better idea who's available. Personally, I don't think those let go will be better than Holland.

EDIT: The Wings have Holland, for better or worse, till Jarnkrok does us part.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Agreed, and I like the thread premise, just tossing a name out there.

I will say though, after the season is over this thread will have a better idea who's available. Personally, I don't think those let go will be better than Holland.

EDIT: The Wings have Holland, for better or worse, till Jarnkrok does us part.

I don't think Burke is a horrible notion, just doesn't do it for me in terms of pulling the trigger maybe others will agree with the idea of Burke over Holland. I don't think he is leaving Calgary that fast, but ultimately I do think we would need to ask permission and would be declined.

 

[PullHard]

What is Darcy Regier up to? I don't need Holland fired, I just would want more voices present in our management group. And it seems like Regier typically got good value in trades.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

What is Darcy Regier up to? I don't need Holland fired, I just would want more voices present in our management group. And it seems like Regier typically got good value in trades.

This is interesting and if I remember right he and Holland are good friends. I don't know that I believe in him more, but like you said either in a role underneath or if Holland was to move upstairs he is a name that if thrown out I don't hate.

 

[Crymson]

I wonder if Lidstrom would have any interest? He may not want to leave Sweden, though. He's got many of those personal qualities that Yzerman has that have made him a competent GM. He's patient, measured and controlled. He's got long ties to this organization and I think he's be good at playing a long game as GM. I doubt he'd sell the farm prospects-wise.

I'd love for him to have an opportunity as GM, I'm just not sure he'd want it. Maybe in a few years when his sons are grown up, Holland will step down and Lidstrom will step in?

You mean Lidstrom who has absolutely no experience in management of any kind?

 

[last_sd]

I really wanted Neal. Yzerman would've been okay as well.
I don't think we have anyone from inside of our organization anymore.
Would have to come from outside.

 

[Crymson]

From outside the org...how do posters feel about Burke?

I'd love to have Yzerman back, don't know details, but have a feeling he will be back with the Detroit org. at some point.

Burke is awful.

What is Darcy Regier up to? I don't need Holland fired, I just would want more voices present in our management group. And it seems like Regier typically got good value in trades.

Umm, what? Regier is incompetent. Sabres fans wanted him fired a good five years before he finally got the axe.

Humorously enough, Holland absolutely destroyed Regier in the single trade between the two. Holland got Hasek; Regier got a 30th-overall pick and Kozlov, whose play was then significantly on the downhill and whom Sabres fans came to hate for his laziness.

 

[Heaton]

I really wanted Neal. Yzerman would've been okay as well.
I don't think we have anyone from inside of our organization anymore.
Would have to come from outside.

If Holland were to be replaced, I wouldn't even think Nill or Yzerman would have done anything drastically different than Holland. It's much easier for a GM to go to a new team and make sweeping changes, not so much with the team you've been around. Look at Craig MacTavish in Edmonton, he's not going to do anything different, it'll be the same old stuff. I agree an outsider would be necessary, but Holland isn't going anywhere for a long time.

 

[SantosHalper]

I said it before, and i say again.

Red Wings 2015->

President: Ken Holland
vp: Mike Babcock(also ncaa-team head coach) or Brendan Shanahan(if Babs goes)
gm: Steve Yzerman
asst. gm: Ryan Martin
dir. of pro scouting: Mark Howe
dir. of european scouting: Hakan Andersson
dir. of amateur scouting: ?
dir. of player development: Jiri Fischer
senior advisor: Kris Draper

head coach: Jeff Blashill
asst. coach: Tom Renney/Andy Murray/"experienced coach"
asst. coach: Chris Chelios/"experienced player"
goalie coach: Jim Bedard/Chris Osgood/?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Umm, what? Regier is incompetent. Sabres fans wanted him fired a good five years before he finally got the axe.

Humorously enough, Holland absolutely destroyed Regier in the single trade between the two. Holland got Hasek; Regier got a 30th-overall pick and Kozlov, whose play was then significantly on the downhill and whom Sabres fans came to hate for his laziness.

Think that is more the idea of working in tandem, which is a realistic scenario. Regier was kind of up against it in that scenario Kozlov was fine, he was in a no win situation, he played well both there and Atlanta really. Most of what happened to Darcy was as a result of working under some of the worst conditions in the NHL and still coming out pretty good. By the time he left I agree he needed to get out, but that is a name I trust in terms of Holland and him collaborating.

Others can point out Yzerman's contract will be up if he doesn't want to extend after next season, with Holland moving upstairs. But that doesn't change the fire Holland right now crowd. So you then have to be okay with Holland working next year then moving upstairs. I don't know that Yzerman is going to come running back, we all hope he will, but only time will tell there. I am not sure it is even in this next window of 2015.

 

[PullHard]

Umm, what? Regier is incompetent. Sabres fans wanted him fired a good five years before he finally got the axe.

Humorously enough, Holland absolutely destroyed Regier in the single trade between the two. Holland got Hasek; Regier got a 30th-overall pick and Kozlov, whose play was then significantly on the downhill and whom Sabres fans came to hate for his laziness.

Which is why I said I don't need Holland gone, just adding him to our group would likely strengthen it as Regier seemed to be making pretty strong moves even towards the end of his tenure in Buffalo.

I don't fault him for not giving Briere, Drury, and Campbell the moon as they aren't really very special players and quickly showed that on their new teams by retiring due to declined play or being bought out or moved for next to nothing within a few seasons.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Red Wings 2015->

President: Ken Holland
vp: Mike Babcock(also ncaa-team head coach) or Brendan Shanahan(if Babs goes)
gm: Steve Yzerman
asst. gm: Ryan Martin
dir. of pro scouting: Mark Howe
dir. of european scouting: Hakan Andersson
dir. of amateur scouting: ?
dir. of player development: Jiri Fischer
senior advisor: Kris Draper

head coach: Jeff Blashill
asst. coach: Tom Renney/Andy Murray/"experienced coach"
asst. coach: Chris Chelios/"experienced player"
goalie coach: Jim Bedard/Chris Osgood/?

I don't think he is going to wear both those hats. Honestly I think Babcock is gaining more and more power lately anyway and for me it points to an extension. He prioritized some of the prospects and young guys speaking candidly about it entering this deadline and even last off-season, that points towards keeping him happy and keeping him longer in my opinion. Also a lot of the moves we have been hating on have a very Babcock feel in terms of the players brought in and who was ushered out of the organization.

Don't think he can be both the U of M coach and VP of hockey operations or however they want to end that VP title.

 

[The Zermanator]

You mean Lidstrom who has absolutely no experience in management of any kind?

Yzerman only worked for Team Canada and Detroit for a few years before becoming a GM. It's not inconceivable that Lidstrom could do some work for the Swedish national team for a few years then come back to Detroit once his sons are grown up.

Holland is here for the foreseeable future so we're not talking about someone who would step in tomorrow.

 

[stu the grim reaper]

Holland will gm the wings until mike ilitch passes, then the ilitch family will part-out the ilitch empire to raise cash to strong arm development deals in resurgent detroit michigan, the red wings will fall from grace and yzerman will return as GM to restore the franchise to luster, as everyone in tampa bay seems to know in the back of their mind...

 

[probertrules24]

Holland will gm the wings until mike ilitch passes, then the ilitch family will part-out the ilitch empire to raise cash to strong arm development deals in resurgent detroit michigan, the red wings will fall from grace and yzerman will return as GM to restore the franchise to luster, as everyone in tampa bay seems to know in the back of their mind...

Somebody forgot to tell them that.

Damian Cristodero ‏@LightningTimes ·4 hrs
And finally in today's Times: Lightning working on Yzerman contract extension http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hock...nsion-in-works-for-lightnings-yzerman/2169017 … via @TB_Times

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Holland will gm the wings until mike ilitch passes, then the ilitch family will part-out the ilitch empire to raise cash to strong arm development deals in resurgent detroit michigan, the red wings will fall from grace and yzerman will return as GM to restore the franchise to luster, as everyone in tampa bay seems to know in the back of their mind...

Chris Ilitch has really been in charge of both the Wings and Tigers for a little bit now. They even went so far last year as to make him our governor officially in terms of the NHL if I remember right.

I think the Tigers could be cut back a decent chunk, the Wings make money and will make even more with the new barn, also Chris Ilitch is big into hockey, it might be the sport that wins out in terms of his interests if he leans one way or the other. Have also heard in the past Chris Ilitch is a huge Holland fan and really friend given they are much closer in age. I don't think the switch from Mike to Chris hurts Holland at all, it might hurt the ability to lure Yzerman back who views Mike and Marian like his second set of parents.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Somebody forgot to tell them that.

Damian Cristodero ‏@LightningTimes ·4 hrs
And finally in today's Times: Lightning working on Yzerman contract extension http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hock...nsion-in-works-for-lightnings-yzerman/2169017 … via @TB_Times

Cannot imagine he would chase MSL if there was this plan for 2015. Also, Nill taking the job in Dallas hinted towards a Holland extension, like he was told you will have to keep waiting even longer and finally left.