Confirmed with Link: Holland to Arizona for conditional pick

[Stephen]

So basically Burknis traded a second for nothing. Thanks again for the help guys

Well technically they traded a second rounder for 200 plus games of NHL service.

 

[Northern Dancer]

nothing, i suppose
just curious more that Lou didn't push for a guaranteed pick.

You don't think he did?

 

[Damisoph]

Both better than Smith by any metric you want to use

I'm not going to say Smith is great shakes but Holland and Griffith were useless. Seems like Smith can actually win faceoffs but not sure what metric covers that.

 

[Menzinger]

I'm not going to say Smith is great shakes but Holland and Griffith were useless. Seems like Smith can actually win faceoffs but not sure what metric covers that.

They weren't useless. Holland has been on pace for a couple 30ish point seasons. Griffith was also coming out of the NHL looking to be an NHL scorer too and has been getting icetime with he Panthers.

Steckle sometimes had a face off win % of over 60% some nights with the Leafs, didn't start him from being a plug.

 

[Mess]

The best thing about the Holland trade is that it clears a contract spot and with that Leafs will likely sign Ramo to an NHL deal soon.

So one could view this as Leafs swapped Holland for Ramo their future backup goalie.

 

[Damisoph]

They weren't useless. Holland has been on pace for a couple 30ish point seasons. Griffith was also coming out of the NHL looking to be an NHL scorer too and has been getting icetime with he Panthers.

Steckle sometimes had a face off win % of over 60% some nights with the Leafs, didn't start him from being a plug.

Greg McKegg was getting ice time with the Panthers too but I digress. I won't get too bent out of shape over bottom 3 guys, but godspeed to you.

 

[Prominence]

wow colborne had more value than holland. Hopefully he gets resigned or traded. Got to stack dem 2018 picks.

 

[hockeyes]

A few things to take away from this:

1 What a disaster of a return this is considering what Nonis paid for him. And even more of a reason to hate Carlyle for routinely only giving him 5-8min a night of icetime turning the conditional pick from a 3rd to a 2nd .

2) with Babcock seemingly having no interest in him at all seems like there may be a mild disconnect between him and management. Especially when you consider management also later went out of there way to grab Griffith - yet another player Babcock had no interest in. I don't think it's anything to worry about but it's certainly noticeable

This is the biggest take away to me, Babcock either likes guys or he doesn't, management seems totally unaware of who Mike will like and it hasn't factored into the decisions yet. If Babcock doesn't like a guy, they need to pull back and let it go.

 

[sxvnert]

Hallelujah!

 

[Xscout*]

I'm not going to say Smith is great shakes but Holland and Griffith were useless. Seems like Smith can actually win faceoffs but not sure what metric covers that.

Faceoff %



Sorry couldn't resist

 

[Big Easy]

Today we have to say goodbye to one of the Leafs Top 1000 players of all time. I bid you Adieu Peter.

 

[nuck]

if that's the condition - I truly don't get why we extended him, right? if it was a guaranteed pick, it makes sense to give him a contract (we got something). but we basically have the free contract now, which we would have had if we didn't give him a QA.

He had a shot at being a bigger player on this club. He has certainly shown better skills in the past. Swept away by a tide of rookies. Except for Ben Smith, he seemed like the only Leaf forward that didn't really belong in a lineup. I would be happy with almost any Marlie forward replacing him, even Michalek in case he could re-establish a trade value.

 

[Nalens Oga]

This is the biggest take away to me, Babcock either likes guys or he doesn't, management seems totally unaware of who Mike will like and it hasn't factored into the decisions yet. If Babcock doesn't like a guy, they need to pull back and let it go.

I'm not a big fan of this, it never ends well. I wanna trust the GM's personnel choices not the coaches especially when it's a guy with questionable personnel decisions like Babcock, the coach just needs to play the guys. Let the GM GM and let the coach coach.

It's a bit like in that Moneyball film where Pitt keeps acquiring guys and the coach doesn't utilize them the way Pitt wants (so then Pitt trades away the guys the coach has a hard-on for but that won't happen in hockey lol).

 

[Daisy Jane]

You don't think he did?

as in get it i mean.

 

[Daisy Jane]

They weren't useless. Holland has been on pace for a couple 30ish point seasons. Griffith was also coming out of the NHL looking to be an NHL scorer too and has been getting icetime with he Panthers.

Steckle sometimes had a face off win % of over 60% some nights with the Leafs, didn't start him from being a plug.

yah. but has Griffith been doing anything? no.
you keep seeing there's a disconnect - but i truly don't see it.

 

[i1]

Nonis was so bad Nylander is now his only acquired player on the roster; Burke still has seven

 

[Menzinger]

yah. but has Griffith been doing anything? no.
you keep seeing there's a disconnect - but i truly don't see it.

Then why pick up a guy like Griffith without him even getting half a shot in the lineup?

I don't think the group is dysfunctional but I see enough smoke to see there are likely some differences of opinion on multiple players. For example, I can't imagine the Leafs stats guys liking Smith one bit.

With so many people in the management group, disagreements over personnel is sort of to be expected, no?

 

[GoodNewfieBoy]

Well technically they traded a second rounder for 200 plus games of NHL service.

I know but it's 200 meaningless games. I'd rather have taken a chance on the second , as I'm sure you would have

 

[LondonKendrick]

I thought it was a clever trade by Nonis until they played him so much that it kicked in the clause that cost a 2nd round pick.

I always rooted for Holland because he seemed like a great guy, can see him in broadcast one day, nothing really came of his time here, oh well, happy trails Pete

 

[Daisy Jane]

Nonis was so bad Nylander is now his only acquired player on the roster; Burke still has seven

that gets an astrisk because Shanahan was here. lol I swear to all that's chocolate, if Shanahan wasn't here, we're not drafting Nylander (OR Ehlers).

Then why pick up a guy like Griffith without him even getting half a shot in the lineup?

I don't think the group is dysfunctional but I see enough smoke to see there are likely some differences of opinion on multiple players. For example, I can't imagine the Leafs stats guys liking Smith one bit.

With so many people in the management group, disagreements over personnel is sort of to be expected, no?

He had a shot. 3 games. he was okay. nothing special, and that's my point. It's one thing if it was like we got someone you know. maybe they thought something - they saw him practice and in game and went "meh - we've got better in the Marlies" not everything has to be so nefarious etc. sort of like "hey - this is on sale, let's try it." you buy it and then you get a refund.

i also don't think EVERYTHING is running through the stats. (just like i don't think everything is run through "eye test") they could NOT like him, but again it's not like Smith is HURTING the team. And it's not like he's staying here forever.

there's a difference between saying there's disagreements over personnel (however there'll be a consensus) - vs. saying there is a disconnect. it sometimes sounds like you (and others but i mean i'm talking to you) are making like there is a divide. Nor do i think the people they try out is "better' than who is here.. a majority of whom we don't like is gone anyway. It just feels everytime people lament over Corrado or Grrifith (and now Holland) i have to double check and make sure we're not talking about some better version i forgot.

 

[Drakkor]

Then why pick up a guy like Griffith without him even getting half a shot in the lineup?

I don't think the group is dysfunctional but I see enough smoke to see there are likely some differences of opinion on multiple players. For example, I can't imagine the Leafs stats guys liking Smith one bit.

With so many people in the management group, disagreements over personnel is sort of to be expected, no?

When does it become the players responsibility to earn the spot.

 

[Buds17]

I thought it was a clever trade by Nonis until they played him so much that it kicked in the clause that cost a 2nd round pick.

I always rooted for Holland because he seemed like a great guy, can see him in broadcast one day, nothing really came of his time here, oh well, happy trails Pete

Seemed like a decent idea to acquire a 15th overall pick and certainly the centre injuries necessitated something being done, but he wasn't the greatest fit once the team got healthy again, and the price paid was far too much for that.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I thought it was a clever trade by Nonis until they played him so much that it kicked in the clause that cost a 2nd round pick.

I always rooted for Holland because he seemed like a great guy, can see him in broadcast one day, nothing really came of his time here, oh well, happy trails Pete

It was his own fault he was in that situation in the first place. Waiving Colborne in favour of Orr and McLaren is still a monumentally stupid move, also I didn't agree with replacing Grabovski with Bolland but that's another issue which honestly doesn't matter anymore.

Clever would be the last word I'd use to describe that trade. I'd say calling it a "desperation trade" is a better way to describe it. And Carlyle didn't help matters playing him sub-10 minutes a game and eventually making that 3rd a 2nd. Yeah, great work Randy.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Finally



Probably like conditional 7th improving to 5th on 20 goals or something that won't happen, but still

I can live with that I guess. He's RFA at the end so there's a decent chance they qualify and resign him.

Not surprised. I believe I said the return will be around a 6/7th rounder.

 

[tokyoite]

trade hunwick