Holland on Babcock

[The Zetterberg Era]

He is a one string band. He can only play the "Babcock ruined my career" note. Nearly a decade what was an entirely forgettable, barely NHL level career.

Over half of NHL players have careers of 100 games or less.

Again, I find Commodore completely unhinged on Babcock.

But second line players don't score as much as people think, your average NHL player doesn't play as many games as people think... So on and so forth. Mike Commodore played just shy of 500 games in the NHL, over if you include playoffs, so while there was nothing exceptional about his career, it is actually a decent chunk of games in the bigger picture. Really it's 4 or 5 times the length of your average playing career when you include all the guys into that picture.

 

[Shaman464]

Over half of NHL players have careers of 100 games or less.

Again, I find Commodore completely unhinged on Babcock.

But second line players don't score as much as people think, your average NHL player doesn't play as many games as people think... So on and so forth. Mike Commodore played just shy of 500 games in the NHL, over if you include playoffs, so while there was nothing exceptional about his career, it is actually a decent chunk of games in the bigger picture. Really it's 4 or 5 times the length of your average playing career when you include all the guys into that picture.

He wasn't second line. He played almost exclusively as a bottom pairing guy, usually "tough" guy, but mostly taking dumb penalties. And he did play a ton of games, but so did Brett Lebda, so did many borderline NHL defenders.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

I get Babcock was a dick but this is going way overboard. People acting like he’s a murderer or something lol.

The worst person Franzen has ever known

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He wasn't second line. He played almost exclusively as a bottom pairing guy, usually "tough" guy, but mostly taking dumb penalties. And he did play a ton of games, but so did Brett Lebda, so did many borderline NHL defenders.

Yeah I know Mike Commodore was a D-man. The point was a lot of generalized statements are wrong. Most people don't understand how many points your average second or third liner scores. He only has x, he isn't that. Used to be an annoying debate with Nyquist and Tatar at times, go look up the actual scoring metrics before the generalized statement. When you want to talk about guys barely being NHL players to you like Lebda and Commodore, go look up the average games played in this league. You might still want to make the point but somebody playing four to five times as many games makes your point ridiculous in my opinion. You can carry on having it, we all have our opinions... But borderline NHL players don't play 500 games.

You can feel them undeserving, just statistically nothing backs you up and logically no hockey personnel in the game would validate that opinion which matters to me when I look at it.

 

[ricky0034]

Yeah I know Mike Commodore was a D-man. The point was a lot of generalized statements are wrong. Most people don't understand how many points your average second or third liner scores. He only has x, he isn't that. Used to be an annoying debate with Nyquist and Tatar at times, go look up the actual scoring metrics before the generalized statement. When you want to talk about guys barely being NHL players to you like Lebda and Commodore, go look up the average games played in this league. You might still want to make the point but somebody playing four to five times as many games makes your point ridiculous in my opinion. You can carry on having it, we all have our opinions... But borderline NHL players don't play 500 games.

You can feel them undeserving, just statistically nothing backs you up and logically no hockey personnel in the game would validate that opinion which matters to me when I look at it.

i'm not really familiar enough with Commodore's career to have much of an opinion on him personally but statistics like that tend to break down on an individual level when coaches irrationally decide they like a guy or whatever

Brian Lashoff has 127 NHL games and I wouldn't even call him a borderline NHLer

Tanner Glass has 527 games,Colton Orr has 477....you saying those guys were something more than borderline NHLers?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

i'm not really familiar enough with Commodore's career to have much of an opinion on him personally but statistics like that tend to break down on an individual level when coaches irrationally decide they like a guy or whatever

Brian Lashoff has 127 NHL games and I wouldn't even call him a borderline NHLer

Tanner Glass has 527 games,Colton Orr has 477....you saying those guys were something more than borderline NHLers?

Yes, they played in the NHL for a long time.

Lashoff has your average NHL career. He wasn't a great player, he is more of your case. But guys that are playing that many games had NHL careers, they weren't maybe in the league they were at the very least in and out for 10 years. This isn't a couple years or whatever else. Talk about that they didn't do this well or that well.

In the case of Mike Commodore, he is an NCAA champ, Stanley Cup winner and World Championship Gold Player. He made over 20 million dollars playing hockey professionally and played over a decade. In what scenario is this really borderline? I am not saying the guy is a hall of famer or some great player, but to pretend he could barely hack it is to me dishonest. I have made this point with Ericsson as well. Not liking a guy or not being super happy with his play, doesn't disqualify what they accomplished to get to the highest level and upper 1% of hockey players to walk the planet. I hate the hyperbole of it. Mike Commodore was a #4 for points in time in the league, he was a reliable bottom pairing d-man for parts of time in the league.

Tanner Glass and Colton Orr might get a lot of laughs, but they routinely got coaches, management and teammates to defend their presence for years. It could be semantics in terms of how people want to view it but yeah I think playing 400+ games in the NHL means you were more than borderline, you clearly made rosters and played a while.

 

[TheClap]

He wasn't second line. He played almost exclusively as a bottom pairing guy, usually "tough" guy, but mostly taking dumb penalties. And he did play a ton of games, but so did Brett Lebda, so did many borderline NHL defenders.

In his prime, Mike Commodore was a good 2nd pairing defensemen on a Cup winning team, and a solid top pairing 20+ minutes a night defensemen for a Columbus Blue Jackets team that made their first franchise trip to the playoffs.

At the end of the day, Mike Commodore has his name etched into the Stanley Cup as many times as Mike Babcock, and was just as important of a piece in victory as Babcock was on that loaded Red Wings roster.

You've got former players defending Commodore and confirming his criticisms. Nobody is rushing to the defense of Mike Babcock as a person.

 

[Richard Gibson]

Darren McCarty: Mike Babcock cost Detroit Red Wings the Stanley Cup in 2009 DMac speaks up

 

[MBH]

“That’s the key. In spite of him, right? In spite of him. And I learned that more getting into ’09 because we won in ’08 in spite of him and lost in ’09 because of him. That’s exactly the thing because he misused (Pavel) Datsyuk, (Henrik) Zetterberg and just because he’s stubborn and that was his way.”

 

[MBH]

What he thinks happened when he was bought out in Columbus is even crazier.



He seriously thinks Columbus paid $4.56 million to buy him out because the coach was jealous of him. Not because of his performance.

https://detroitsportsnation.com/his...-babcock/mwhitaker/general/11/23/2019/213236/

You're cutting corners a but. He's saying that's why he and Arniel didn't see eye to eye.
Commo is probably an egotistical jerk in his own right.

Me? I'm thankful when we have guys who lay it all out there.
Doesn't mean they're right. There are at least two sides to every story.
In the NHL, we usually get ZERO sides to these stories. We get bullshit from myth-making beat writers who are usually too scared to tread into controversy.

So I'll take a Mike Commodore any day of the week.
I wish there were more. Not tooooo many more. But a few more.

 

[MBH]

i'm not really familiar enough with Commodore's career to have much of an opinion on him personally but statistics like that tend to break down on an individual level when coaches irrationally decide they like a guy or whatever

Brian Lashoff has 127 NHL games and I wouldn't even call him a borderline NHLer

Tanner Glass has 527 games,Colton Orr has 477....you saying those guys were something more than borderline NHLers?

Commodore wasn't an all star... but he did sign a 5-year, 18M deal in Columbus.

And his first year in Columbus - for Hitchcock
5-19-24 +11 100 PIM 22:54 a night. 200 hits. 162 blocks. That's not Brett Lebda.
and then the wheels fell off on Hitchcock.
He definitely regressed from there.

 

[Dotter]

People here would be ecstatic if Brian Lashoff had a similar NHL career as Mike Commodore had.

And I'm not even a Commodore fan.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

You're cutting corners a but. He's saying that's why he and Arniel didn't see eye to eye.
Commo is probably an egotistical jerk in his own right.

Me? I'm thankful when we have guys who lay it all out there.
Doesn't mean they're right. There are at least two sides to every story.
In the NHL, we usually get ZERO sides to these stories. We get bull**** from myth-making beat writers who are usually too scared to tread into controversy.

So I'll take a Mike Commodore any day of the week.
I wish there were more. Not tooooo many more. But a few more.

I'm not cutting corners. All I did was quote Commodore on what he said about it. Which is that he was thrown off the team because the coach was jealous of Commie being young and single and having money.

 

[MBH]

I'm not cutting corners. All I did was quote Commodore on what he said about it. Which is that he was thrown off the team because the coach was jealous of Commie being young and single and having money.

Right .. that's his final summation. He suspected Arniel resented that he was young, single and making more money.
And believed that's why his playing time got cut down.
And why he started struggling and was bought out.
There are a few steps in there.

 

[Shaman464]

Right .. that's his final summation. He suspected Arniel resented that he was young, single and making more money.
And believed that's why his playing time got cut down.
And why he started struggling and was bought out.
There are a few steps in there.

And they are batshit. If you watched him at all in those years he didn't belong in the NHL. He couldn't keep up, and the game had become a lot less forgiving of clutch/grab and borderline hits.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Right .. that's his final summation. He suspected Arniel resented that he was young, single and making more money.
And believed that's why his playing time got cut down.
And why he started struggling and was bought out.
There are a few steps in there.

And that makes it somehow less insane?

That on a team full of many single rich young men, Arniel singled out Commodore to be jealous of and cut his playing time. Must be because Commie is so handsome. It surely couldn't have anything to do with his performance on the ice.

 

[MBH]

And that makes it somehow less insane?

That on a team full of many single rich young men, Arniel singled out Commodore to be jealous of and cut his playing time. Must be because Commie is so handsome. It surely couldn't have anything to do with his performance on the ice.

How do you know it's insane?
Jesus.
Nobody who KNOWS Commodore is coming out and telling us about how insane he was.
People are coming out and reporting how disrespectful and arrogant Babcock was.

But you're speculating about the other guy. Wonder why that is.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

How do you know it's insane?
Jesus.
Nobody who KNOWS Commodore is coming out and telling us about how insane he was.
People are coming out and reporting how disrespectful and arrogant Babcock was.

But you're speculating about the other guy. Wonder why that is.

because Commodore is bat**** and had a raging hate***** for a guy.

Commodore himself is coming out and showing on Twitter how insane he is.

Babcock is disrespectful and arrogant and Commodore is insane. They’re not mutually exclusive things

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

How do you know it's insane?
Jesus.
Nobody who KNOWS Commodore is coming out and telling us about how insane he was.
People are coming out and reporting how disrespectful and arrogant Babcock was.

But you're speculating about the other guy. Wonder why that is.

And there it is. If I think Commodore is a desperate weirdo who doesn't take responsibility for his career, then it must be that I support Babcock, right? Because there could only possibly be two options.

It's more telling you seriously believe a new NHL coach would cut a player's ice time, to the detriment of the team, because he was jealous that said player was single and had money. On a team full of players who were single and had money.

They're talking about Babcock because he's the coach who just got fired from the Toronto Maple Leafs. Why would people pile on average NHL d-man who hasn't played in 7 years? It's well established what an a-hole Babcock is. That doesn't somehow make Commodore not a desperate lunatic.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Mr. 64 could both be right about Babcock as a person and also completely out to lunch on a number of other issues, as well as overly focused on Babcock to where people rightfully can question his mental state.

 

[2xJack]

Can someone please explain why Commodore holding a grudge against Babcock makes him a lunatic? I have an old boss that was just a horrible person. If I saw him today I'd flip him off. That's by no means my normal greeting for people, but for some you gotta give back what they dished out.

 

[nhlisawesome]

Tell us more about your old boss 2xJack