Holland on Babcock

[TheClap]

The only real difference was the number of Cups, the era, and the lack of social media. The behavior is not worse. Bowman was brutal on players.

People want an investigation into Holland for allegedly implying that if players didn't buy into Babcock's system, they'd be traded. As GM/Coach Bowman did exactly that to players. Openly. Multiple times.

To be clear I'm not comparing their ability as actual hockey coaches. Just their level of manipulation and generally being an a-hole.

You don't see any players coming to Babcock's defense, or praising him the way you hear them talk about Bowman.

I do agree the folks calling for the Holland are absurd.

But social media exists today and nobody who played for Bowman is coming out like they are Babcock. Chris Chelios played for both and is only talking about Babcock. Ken Dryden just released a book about Bowman and what a great coach he was.

“The difference between the three. House and Jobs were cruel. Scotty was never cruel (although some of his players may dispute that.) Scotty knew how good we were in Montreal as a team, individually, and he knew we had no right not to be as good as we were. It was his job to remind us of that, indirectly, directly, however it worked, in tone, message, whatever it needed to be. If you are the best, you have no right not to be the best.”

His ways of communicating were not always direct. In Detroit, he had a rookie forward named Tomas Holmstrom, who had not yet made the Red Wings. Holmstrom wanted to wear the number 98 as a player. Bowman wouldn’t allow it.

He settled on allowing Holmstrom to wear the number 96, saying to him that you can wear that number because that’s the year you’ll be going back to Sweden. This was 1995 and Holmstrom thought Bowman was serious when he told him that. He wound up playing 400 games for Bowman, winning three Stanley Cups, then played 626 more games in Detroit.

Mike Babcock has never and will never get that adoration from a former player the way Scotty Bowman does from countless guys that played for him, as big of an ass as he may have been.

 

[TheClap]

 

[Shaman464]

Quoting Commodore about Babcock doesn't add anything to this conversation. The only thing getting Commodore out of the bed in the morning is his irrational hate of Babcock.

 

[avssuc]

It's because there wasn't social media when Bowman was coaching, but he was easily as bad or worse than Babcock. There's a reason he was referred to as an evil genius and master of head games. It's all fond memories now that he's retired but so many people hated Bowman, players and management, when he was coaching. People here may be too young to remember what a tyrant he was.

Here's one article I found written after the Wings Cup win in '97:



Mr. Congeniality He's Not, but Mr. Stanley Cup Has a Resounding Ring



CICCARELLI ON BOWMAN: MAYBE HE WANTS ROBOTS

Jesus Christ. All I remembered was him painting the opposition's locker room, shortening someone's benches, and what he did in front of the wife and kid of Lemieux. Who kicks random people's luggage at the airport? Scotty sounds like a real SOB.

The question still centers on trade offs for the players, fans, and society. I don't think that historical examples of mentally abusive HoFers justifies anything taking place in today's hockey world, but I'm not sure the ownership groups or majority of fans agree with me. Whatever the case, I just hope that things continue to be non-reactionary. This is a good discussion for hockey and society to have.

 

[kliq]

Quoting Commodore about Babcock doesn't add anything to this conversation. The only think getting Commodore out of the bed in the morning is his irrational hate of Babcock.

Unfortunately there is a lot in this thread that doesn't add to the conversation. It seems as if people are more concerned about getting their usual rhetoric out, then they are about discussing this topic. You got to love how the same few are trying to make this about whether or not Holland should have tore it down after Lidstrom left lol.

Agreed about Commodore. I don't doubt that Babs was a dick to him, but I don't buy that Babs purposely ruined his career and having Holland sign him was a calculated move just to ruin him. Whats more likely is that Commodore did something to piss Babs off, then Babs was done with him.

 

[Mlotek]

It's his character, look how whiny he is during his arrest. "what...you're not going to give me a break? "


"I'm begging for a favor... "

"I have four kids... "

"You;re going to do this, seriously? "

"I can't believe you're doing this "

"Seriously?! "

"I'm begging... please.... please don't do this to me. I have four childred. Please don't do this to me! "

Wasn't that case thrown out of court for an illegal traffic stop?

 

[TheClap]

Quoting Commodore about Babcock doesn't add anything to this conversation. The only think getting Commodore out of the bed in the morning is his irrational hate of Babcock.

Sure it does.
You've got more and more guys confirming Commie's account and similar experiences with Babcock.
You've got folks saying Babcock was just doing what so many other coaches have done over the years.
Except nobody complains about the typical hardass coach laying into them. You got Commie saying he's grateful for a lot of those coaches.
Why is it just Babcock?
It's because he went above and beyond prick level.
I'll start thinking differently when a single damn player comes to Babcock's defense.

 

[TheMule93]

All this drama has culminated in tons of hilarious hot takes over the past few weeks. Keep it up guys! Need something to keep me entertained during this awful period of Red Wings hockey.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Quoting Commodore about Babcock doesn't add anything to this conversation. The only think getting Commodore out of the bed in the morning is his irrational hate of Babcock.

Irrational?

 

[kliq]

Irrational?

In his case, yes. Have you heard him talk about Babs? He legitimately thinks that Babs got Ken Holland to sign him just so he could ruin his career.

 

[Dotter]

Wasn't that case thrown out of court for an illegal traffic stop?

Doesn't matter.

 

[MBH]

Quoting Commodore about Babcock doesn't add anything to this conversation. The only think getting Commodore out of the bed in the morning is his irrational hate of Babcock.

People are still shitting on Commodore? Even though he's basically been backed by how many guys now?
If you know anything about Commodore, he lives the life of f***ing leisure and he rips Babcock because there's no reason not to.
He's out of the game. So why not roast the douchebag?

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

People are still ****ting on Commodore? Even though he's basically been backed by how many guys now?
If you know anything about Commodore, he lives the life of ****ing leisure and he rips Babcock because there's no reason not to.
He's out of the game. So why not roast the *****ebag?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

In his case, yes. Have you heard him talk about Babs? He legitimately thinks that Babs got Ken Holland to sign him just so he could ruin his career.

What he thinks happened when he was bought out in Columbus is even crazier.

I’m very disappointed with how my last year in Columbus went and with my year in Detroit. I feel I was treated piss poor; I was thrown off the team in Columbus because I was single and I was making a lot of money. The coach was jealous because he played a lot of years, he had a wife and kids and he felt he didn’t earn a lot of money so he booted me off the team.

He seriously thinks Columbus paid $4.56 million to buy him out because the coach was jealous of him. Not because of his performance.

https://detroitsportsnation.com/his...-babcock/mwhitaker/general/11/23/2019/213236/

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

In his case, yes. Have you heard him talk about Babs? He legitimately thinks that Babs got Ken Holland to sign him just so he could ruin his career.

Lol he is going to end up in jail.

 

[kliq]

People are still ****ting on Commodore? Even though he's basically been backed by how many guys now?
If you know anything about Commodore, he lives the life of ****ing leisure and he rips Babcock because there's no reason not to.
He's out of the game. So why not roast the *****ebag?

I'm not shiting on him, I actually found the interview funny, and I believe parts. But if you're asking me if he's over the top, without a doubt he is a bit out there.

Entertaining though, he's definitely not boring lol.

 

[MBH]

I'm not ****ing on him, I actually found the interview funny, and I believe parts. But if you're asking me if he's over the top, without a doubt he is a bit out there.

Entertaining though, he's definitely not boring lol.

Oh, yeah.
For sure. I think he's trying to craft himself a career in hockey media. Even if it's just podcasts and stuff.
The regular media is still an old boys network.

 

[kliq]

Oh, yeah.
For sure. I think he's trying to craft himself a career in hockey media. Even if it's just podcasts and stuff.
The regular media is still an old boys network.

He's got a good delivery, when he speak he has a way with his words where you want to laugh. Him talking about the possibility of seeing Babs at a golf tournament is a good example of that. Same words from someone else could come off dark, he almost seems like he is trying to make the listener laugh.

 

[Shaman464]

People are still ****ting on Commodore? Even though he's basically been backed by how many guys now?
If you know anything about Commodore, he lives the life of ****ing leisure and he rips Babcock because there's no reason not to.
He's out of the game. So why not roast the *****ebag?

He is a one string band. He can only play the "Babcock ruined my career" note. Nearly a decade what was an entirely forgettable, barely NHL level career.

 

[MBH]

He is a one string band. He can only play the "Babcock ruined my career" note. Nearly a decade what was an entirely forgettable, barely NHL level career.

That's all you know him for.
Don't act like that's all he talks about just because that's all you're aware of.

As for his career, he won a cup playing 19 minutes a night and played nearly 500 NHL games (more including playoffs). His career probably happened 5-10 years too late.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

That's all you know him for.
Don't act like that's all he talks about just because that's all you're aware of.

As for his career, he won a cup playing 19 minutes a night and played nearly 500 NHL games (more including playoffs). His career probably happened 5-10 years too late.

He makes Babcock a major part of his shtick, and his constant posting about him is pathetic.

And I say this as someone who believes Babcock was a jackass and probably did a lot of questionable stuff ad a coach.

 

[Shaman464]

That's all you know him for.
Don't act like that's all he talks about just because that's all you're aware of.

As for his career, he won a cup playing 19 minutes a night and played nearly 500 NHL games (more including playoffs). His career probably happened 5-10 years too late.

He played middle to bottom pairing on that team. It wasn't like he was playing Norris level defense. He has slightly more games played and the same number of Cups as Brett Lebda. He for most of his career was barely an NHLer, not very good offensively, meh defensively, tried to be tough but mostly took stupid penalties.

The only difference between him and Lebda is that Lebda hasn't spent his post hockey playing life pusssy aching about Babcock.

 

[MBH]

He played middle to bottom pairing on that team. It wasn't like he was playing Norris level defense. He has slightly more games played and the same number of Cups as Brett Lebda. He for most of his career was barely an NHLer, not very good offensively, meh defensively, tried to be tough but mostly took stupid penalties.

The only difference between him and Lebda is that Lebda hasn't spent his post hockey playing life pusssy aching about Babcock.

Lebda?
Lebda averaged 12:33 a night, not 19.
Anyway, he was more of a Lilja type anyway.
Without the gang rape allegations.

 

[MBH]

He makes Babcock a major part of his shtick, and his constant posting about him is pathetic.

And I say this as someone who believes Babcock was a jackass and probably did a lot of questionable stuff ad a coach.

Right. He has his go-to things.
In-one.
Babcock.
Horse racing.
Golf.

I don't think it's pathetic at all.
And I think it's clear others have come out and just told everyone Commodore was spot on.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He makes Babcock a major part of his shtick, and his constant posting about him is pathetic.

And I say this as someone who believes Babcock was a jackass and probably did a lot of questionable stuff ad a coach.

Not sure we need to use probably anymore...