Post-Game Talk: Hockeytown ain't what it used to be | Penguins 7, Red Wings 2

[madinsomniac]

I put malkin with crosby and hornqvist and let kessel haglin take on the lesser defensive matchups

 

[shureshot66]

I think Hagelin had more points tonight than Etem has...ever.

Enjoy, Swagelin is a fun player to have.

It was contract demands that forced that trade, right? The timeline is fuzzy in my head -- it was Gorton who made the deal after Sather stepped down? I just remember Sather in general really playing hardball with his RFAs.

 

[aufheben]

It was contract demands that forced that trade, right? The timeline is fuzzy in my head -- it was Gorton who made the deal after Sather stepped down? I just remember Sather in general really playing hardball with his RFAs.

We just couldn't afford him. It's funny, because the salary cap was probably the best thing that ever happened to the Rangers, and almost everyone from the black & blueshirt era (Callahan, Dubinsky, Hagelin, Anismov, etc.) is gone now via trade. Sather did great with a lot of RFA deals but you just can't keep everyone these days. I mean I didn't really even mind the return at the time, but AV totally shafted Etem in terms of linemates and usage (although he doesn't look like he's doing any better in Van., and Hagelin didn't do anything in Anaheim). Is what it is.

 

[clefty]

There was definitely a 9-goal game where Sid had 6 points and Staal dangled some jabrone late in the game.

Or if you want the less amazing version:

IIRC There was the season opener shutout like 3-0 or 4-0 with Ruutu and Ouellet scoring and Army destroying someone in a fight.

Ruutu-Moore-Ouellet line scored two goals in about as many minutes. Armstrong embarrassed former Penguin Nolan Baumgartner in that fight.

That game most importantly goes down in history as seeing Josef Melichar's last NHL goal.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Don't want to start a riot here, but looking at Mrazek is a good reason why we shouldn't rush Murray into being the #1 goalie. Mrazek looked like a Vezina goalie to start the season and has been a mess now for weeks.

Also special plus to Hagelin since I was so mad about this trade at first. He has fit in here incredibly well and that 3rd goal was extremely timely. I really love to eat that crow.

Mrazek also has a rookie NHL coach and a crap defense in front of him, kind of unfair for the kid. Also, Mrazek isn't young, the guy is 24 and he's had stints in the NHL already, here and there for small sampling sizes. The good is that Fleury is miles better than Howard and Bales is a solid coach as well for the goalies.

Mrazek is but one example.

Here's a bunch of other 24 and under types that haven't been bad this year, varying from 20 games or more.

Andrei Vasilevskiy
Philipp Grubauer
Connor Hellebuyck
Joonas Korpisalo
Louis Domingue
John Gibson

Most of those guys haven't done so poorly, also I think Mrazek is just tired if anything. He's played 52 games, he's still put up .921sv% and a 2.31GAA, which isn't that far off from what MAF has put up. 52 games in the NHL vs the AHL is a different beast, he got pushed to that spot, which if anything shows you that if you have Murray up, ****ing use him and not sit him for so long, get games under his belt, let him learn from the experience. I'd hope for Murray getting around 30-35 games next year I hope.

 

[mpp9]

Forgot to mention Daley. Guy is just money. Not sure what his TOI was, but he's done his job here and then some. In a salary cap era, winning teams have players outperforming their contracts. Even with the salary retained, that was a great deal.

 

[sf expat71]

I'm gonna give Bennett a pass for one more game. I'm sure his skating legs aren't quite in game shape.

 

[JTG]

There are so many line combos that could look good. I think Fehr is a unique guy because he can play in the top 6 and he plays wing also. I wish he weren't injured for a majority of this season so we could get a feel for him and where he slots in. Fehr strikes me as a guy Geno would do well with.

I am in no way, shape, or form banking on Beau Bennett for anything more than 5-10 games. I've been fooled before.

 

[Al Smith]

I'm gonna give Bennett a pass for one more game. I'm sure his skating legs aren't quite in game shape.

At the beginning of the season, he looked like he had really worked on his skating over the summer. He seems to have lost that extra gear. At least he got a little extra TOI yesterday because of the blowout.

 

[Hossa die Waldfee]

Mrazek also has a rookie NHL coach and a crap defense in front of him, kind of unfair for the kid. Also, Mrazek isn't young, the guy is 24 and he's had stints in the NHL already, here and there for small sampling sizes. The good is that Fleury is miles better than Howard and Bales is a solid coach as well for the goalies.

Mrazek is but one example.

Here's a bunch of other 24 and under types that haven't been bad this year, varying from 20 games or more.

Andrei Vasilevskiy
Philipp Grubauer
Connor Hellebuyck
Joonas Korpisalo
Louis Domingue
John Gibson

Most of those guys haven't done so poorly, also I think Mrazek is just tired if anything. He's played 52 games, he's still put up .921sv% and a 2.31GAA, which isn't that far off from what MAF has put up. 52 games in the NHL vs the AHL is a different beast, he got pushed to that spot, which if anything shows you that if you have Murray up, ****ing use him and not sit him for so long, get games under his belt, let him learn from the experience. I'd hope for Murray getting around 30-35 games next year I hope.

You completely missed my point, (because I probably did not make it very clear). Your last paragraph is absolutely supporting my point.
My thoughts were directed at the "The time to trade MAF is this off season" guys. I like Murray a lot but I felt his evaluation got a bit out of hand (when posters called him an equal goalie to MAF etc.)

 

[nhindian]

That first Hags goal reminded me of his series winner against us last year

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If existing lines continue to work when Malvin comes back, I think you look at

Kunitz Crosby horny
Fehr Malvin Bennett
Hagen bones kessell
Rust Cullen Kuhn

I like this as much as any reasonable forward line-up we can put out without Wilson and with Kunitz on his implacable spot on the 1st line.

Malkin to the wing should be avoided if we can at all help it.

 

[JTG]

So the stat lines for Hagelin and Perron:

Before Trade
Hagelin: 43 games, 4 goals, 8 assists, 12 points
Perron: 43 games, 4 goals, 12 assists, 16 points

After Trade
Hagelin: 29 games, 7 goals, 13 assists, 20 points
Perron: 28 games, 8 goals, 12 assists, 20 points


I was a Perron fan, but the speed Hagelin brings was the shot in the arm this team needed.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So the stat lines for Hagelin and Perron:

Before Trade
Hagelin: 43 games, 4 goals, 8 assists, 12 points
Perron: 43 games, 4 goals, 12 assists, 16 points

After Trade
Hagelin: 29 games, 7 goals, 13 assists, 20 points
Perron: 28 games, 8 goals, 12 assists, 20 points


I was a Perron fan, but the speed Hagelin brings was the shot in the arm this team needed.

For sure. As much as I think Perron was our best LW and regularly misused here, Hagelin's been great at both ends and much more versatile. Exceptional work by the old fart.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If Hags-Bones-Kessel are still hot when Geno comes back (meaning they helped us get through a playoff round most likely) then I would also be fine with that sort of line-up. I'd still start next year trying to get Kessel and Geno (or Sid) working together, but I wouldn't want to try it this late in the season or in the playoffs.

 

[joeyjake5]

So the stat lines for Hagelin and Perron:

Before Trade
Hagelin: 43 games, 4 goals, 8 assists, 12 points
Perron: 43 games, 4 goals, 12 assists, 16 points

After Trade
Hagelin: 29 games, 7 goals, 13 assists, 20 points
Perron: 28 games, 8 goals, 12 assists, 20 points


I was a Perron fan, but the speed Hagelin brings was the shot in the arm this team needed.

Hags has produced far better than perron at ES. Believe perron has 7 PP points and Hags 0-0 since he gets none or limited PP time.

 

[Ogrezilla]

yeah Hags is just a far better fit here.

 

[Will Hunting]

yeah Hags is just a far better fit here.

Far better fit and far better player overall, too. Much more complex one. Useful, even when he does not produce. That difference is just gross. Also, I hated Perron.. and I have a man crush on Hags. Tears of happiness.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

So the stat lines for Hagelin and Perron:

Before Trade
Hagelin: 43 games, 4 goals, 8 assists, 12 points
Perron: 43 games, 4 goals, 12 assists, 16 points

After Trade
Hagelin: 29 games, 7 goals, 13 assists, 20 points
Perron: 28 games, 8 goals, 12 assists, 20 points


I was a Perron fan, but the speed Hagelin brings was the shot in the arm this team needed.

Stats look similar, but how they got them isn't particularly. Perron gets 2:35 of PP time a game, a lot with the Ducks 1st unit, Hagelin gets virtually none. That's the difference between a 56 point ES player (!) and a 36 point one.

That's another reason Hagelin is such a good fit here and Perron wasn't. And when you look at other players with that kind of production at ES, Hags looks like a bargain at 4m.

 

[JTG]

That's absolutely true. Hagelin right now is producing at a 20 goal, 50 point pace and it's all even strength points. That's a seriously good stat line.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

That's absolutely true. Hagelin right now is producing at a 20 goal, 50 point pace and it's all even strength points. That's a seriously good stat line.

He's like a prime Dupuis with better hockey IQ and even better speed.

Dupes got a lot of his production from puck retrievals and deferring to Sid, but Hagelin can actually, ya know, make plays on occasion too. Which is nice.

That, and Kessel looks like a totally different player with and without him.

 

[JTG]

He's like a prime Dupuis with better hockey IQ and even better speed.

Dupes got a lot of his production from puck retrievals and deferring to Sid, but Hagelin can actually, ya know, make plays on occasion too. Which is nice.

That, and Kessel looks like a totally different player with and without him.

Speed kills. Hagelin and Kessel like playing the game at 100 MPH. Sid does too, but that sort of leaves Hornqvist on his way out because he sucks with Geno, and he is a little too expensive for the 3rd line.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Speed kills. Hagelin and Kessel like playing the game at 100 MPH. Sid does too, but that sort of leaves Hornqvist on his way out because he sucks with Geno, and he is a little too expensive for the 3rd line.

I love the Sid/Horny combo, in spite of Hornqvist's lack of speed. He opens up a lot of space and opportunity for Sid with his work along the boards and in front of the net. Unfortunately, a lot of that good work is undone by his LW.

The speed of Rust, Hagelin, and Daley has been huge for us, but not everybody needs to be a burner. We just have to commit to looking for the right complement. It's borderline tragic that Wilson went down when he did.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Hags has produced far better than perron at ES. Believe perron has 7 PP points and Hags 0-0 since he gets none or limited PP time.

Sounds like a microcosm of the entire team.

Sucks on the power play, best scoring in the NHL five on five.

 

[JTG]

I love the Sid/Horny combo, in spite of Hornqvist's lack of speed. He opens up a lot of space and opportunity for Sid with his work along the boards and in front of the net. Unfortunately, a lot of that good work is undone by his LW.

The speed of Rust, Hagelin, and Daley has been huge for us, but not everybody needs to be a burner. We just have to commit to looking for the right complement. It's borderline tragic that Wilson went down when he did.

What I'm digging about this team right now is that we have a collection of talent where quite literally anyone can score a goal. Look at the roster - would anyone on that current defense surprise you when they score? How about in the bottom 6, which has been where offense has went to die since we've lost our dynamic 3rd line of the Cup years. We have a team that can score as a collective group, and not one where 4-5 guys are counted on for the bulk and we pray to the hockey gods that someone else is there to pick up the slack.