Hockey's Future Spring 2006 Organizational Rankings (16-30)

[mooseOAK*]

Proove to me why they aren't in the bottom third.

You have three solid, but not spectacular prospects in Pogge, Rask, and Cola. Pogge and Rask are about as unproven as they come and could either be stars or nothing.

Cola will be an NHLer, I'm sure, but in what role? I certainly don't see "top pairing defenseman" written all over him.

The only two other noteworthy prospects are Suglabov and Earl. Earl will probably be a 2nd/3rd liner but it's not like he's a top line prospect. Suglabov's upside is that of a scoring 2nd liner, but he needs more work and a better drive to be that.

The rest of your prospect pool is bleak right now. Very, very bleak.

I already mentioned that they had 11 prospects in the NHL this season and by ALL accounts they played well enough to say that they could stay in the league.

Remember these names above and beyond those five:

Ian White
Jay Harrison
Brendan Bell
Staffan Kronwall
Jeremy Williams
Dmitri Vorobiev
Anton Stralman

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I already mentioned that they had 11 prospects in the NHL this season and by ALL accounts they played well enough to say that they could stay in the league.

Remember these names above and beyond those five:

Ian White
Jay Harrison
Brendan Bell
Staffan Kronwall
Jeremy Williams
Dmitri Vorobiev
Anton Stralman

None of the players you mentioned is anything spectacular that teams don't have in their system.

Those are your lower tier, B level prospects. And you don't even have a lot of them. The teams above you have more depth. I think Toronto is actually ranked too high on the amount of depth and top end talent they have currently in their system.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Oh, and honestly, out of all the guys in your system who aren't the TOP tier, A level guys (Pogge, Rask, Cola) I think that I like Chad Rau the best. Shifty, fast, speedy little guy. Fun to watch, too.

Reminds me of a poor mans Gionta.

 

[mooseOAK*]

None of the players you mentioned is anything spectacular that teams don't have in their system.

Those are your lower tier, B level prospects. And you don't even have a lot of them. The teams above you have more depth. I think Toronto is actually ranked too high on the amount of depth and top end talent they have currently in their system.

One of the lower tier, B level prospects has 4 points and is +4 in his first three NHL games.

If you wish to revisit this a year from now I will be more than happy to do it.

 

[GKJ]

Since Hejduk came into the league (1998-99) the following Avalanche drafted players also made it to the NHL on a full time basis:

Marc Denis
Brian Willsie
Dan Hinot
Sami Pahlson
Ville Nieminen
Brad Larsen
David Aebischer
Alex Tanguay
Martin Skoula
Robin Regehr
Branko Radivojevic
Riku Hahl (he's back home now)
Radim Vrbata
Kurt Sauer
John Michael Liles
Peter Budaj
Cody McCormick
Marek Svatos
Brad Richardson


Not that bad a system after all I'd say.

I'll agree that not many bona fide superstars are to be found here but this is what I would call a very solid system.

How many of those guys are still with the Avalanche, and how many of them are rather replaceable? It's not like most of those guys are insane-awsome talent where people rave about inanely aside from Tanguay. I could go through the other 29 systems and find many similar players

 

[Hunter Gathers]

One of the lower tier, B level prospects has 4 points and is +4 in his first three NHL games.

If you wish to revisit this a year from now I will be more than happy to do it.

Doesn't bother me either way.

I have the same argument with the Blues fans in that you need both depth and top end talent to get out of the basement. You guys do not have much of either. Not enough to get out of there, however. A bit of 3rd/4th line talent won't do much for your rankings.

 

[GKJ]

You cant be serious.

Wolski 56 games 47G 128 points 3 time player of the month in the OHL

He carried that team. I guess when hes named the OHL MVP the league will be overrating him.

Wolski even produced 6 points in 9 NHL games.

I would like to see Wolski actually take control while the team isn't on the power play. When he got sent back how long did it take him before he actually came to play 5 on 5? Anyone with talent can do this, and I'm not denying that Wolski has talent. I bet I can find a lot of guys throughout juniors who lit it up much like Wolski did and don't have NHL jobs.

 

[The Fuhr*]

I would like to see Wolski actually take control while the team isn't on the power play. When he got sent back how long did it take him before he actually came to play 5 on 5? Anyone with talent can do this, and I'm not denying that Wolski has talent. I bet I can find a lot of guys throughout juniors who lit it up much like Wolski did and don't have NHL jobs.

And how many of those players in juniors produced 6 points in 9 NHL games as a 19 year old. It took him a while after being sent down to preform cause he was devestated, I would be too after preforming so well. It says alot about Wolskis character to overcome that and flat out dominate. The only player in the CHL to win a player of the month 3 times. Wolski is a tremendous talent, its a shame you have such a biased look regarding the Avs prospect pool.

 

[Belgian Fan]

How many of those guys are still with the Avalanche

That's pretty irrelevant.

and how many of them are rather replaceable? It's not like most of those guys are insane-awsome talent where people rave about inanely aside from Tanguay. I could go through the other 29 systems and find many similar players

That's irrelevant either. You said the Avs haven't gotten anything out of their system since Hejduk.
I think the facts speak for themselves. I'm not arguing that the Avs have been bringing up tons op top end talent but they have a great record of getting solid NHL players through their system. Your disliking of the Avalanche is well documented and I can fully understand that but saying things that are simply wrong won't help your cause.

 

[Roman Tanner]

I'm at the point where I'd rather have everyone underrate our Svato's, Liles's and Wolski's of the world.....It's better then the other way around (which you get with half the other fans around the board...)

Let their performances speak for themselves...

So they go unheralded, the Avs get poor prospect rankings, everyone bemoans Hammond's drafts or Pierre's habit of trading picks......... and then the Avs output 'all rookie team' defensemen or 'Ilya Kovalchuk type' rookie seasons.....

Bring on the negativity...In fact let me add to it....Stastny's horrible, TJ can't pass, Stoa's overhyped and Parshin's a project for a beer league in Belfast..........Now maybe next year, Boychuk drops 15 goals.... with a Hobie Baker season from Stastny.... and a ROY runner up for Wojtek........

 

[GKJ]

That's pretty irrelevant.



That's irrelevant either. You said the Avs haven't gotten anything out of their system since Hejduk.
I think the facts speak for themselves. I'm not arguing that the Avs have been bringing up tons op top end talent but they have a great record of getting solid NHL players through their system. Your disliking of the Avalanche is well documented and I can fully understand that but saying things that are simply wrong won't help your cause.

Actually it is pretty relevant. Some of the guys mentioned have become nothing, in fact most of them. It is also pretty relevant that the "awsome" system produced trades like Robyn Regehr + for a handful of games of Theo Fleury. Nieminen for nothing of Kasparitius. Some of the other guys walked. Skoula has been THE longest running joke on this message board and just because other guys like Kurt Sauer and McCormick actually play, doesn't mean they belong in the NHL.

 

[ZombieMatt]

Exactly, I'd slot him in as an average skater. Skating is something he has worked on alot over the years, and he is getting better. To call him slow would be totally inaccurate like the poster said above.

Huh?

Chucko is not a fast skater by any means. I've seen him play a good amount this year. I wouldn't even say he's remotely quick. Below average speed. Decent, strong stride, just no top end speed.

Jon outright says that he's got below average speed.

 

[Hasbro]

Actually it is pretty relevant. Some of the guys mentioned have become nothing, in fact most of them. It is also pretty relevant that the "awsome" system produced trades like Robyn Regehr + for a handful of games of Theo Fleury. Nieminen for nothing of Kasparitius. Some of the other guys walked.

Also turned Pahlson into Bourque and Johanson and Vrbata into Konowalchuk.

Skoula has been THE longest running joke on this message board and just because other guys like Kurt Sauer and McCormick actually play, doesn't mean they belong in the NHL.

Sauer's a decent rear guard and has a pretty nice playoff run on his resume, McCormick could be a good role player.

 

[Roman Tanner]

Actually it is pretty relevant. Some of the guys mentioned have become nothing, in fact most of them. It is also pretty relevant that the "awsome" system produced trades like Robyn Regehr + for a handful of games of Theo Fleury. Nieminen for nothing of Kasparitius. Some of the other guys walked. Skoula has been THE longest running joke on this message board and just because other guys like Kurt Sauer and McCormick actually play, doesn't mean they belong in the NHL.

This reminds me of a Holly Gunning article...

http://hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=8039

Colorado actually has produced (through astute drafting) the 3rd highest amount of "NHLers" in the league...

 

[xalcyx]

So there

 

[BlueAndWhite]

Not matter how many adjectives you use to describe the Leafs situation be it "bleak" or "putrid", you couldn't be further from the truth.

You have three solid, but not spectacular prospects in Pogge, Rask, and Cola. Pogge and Rask are about as unproven as they come and could either be stars or nothing.

Cola will be an NHLer, I'm sure, but in what role? I certainly don't see "top pairing defenseman" written all over him.

So Rask, Pogge, Cola are solid but not spectacular prospects.

Rask is dominating a men's league at the age of 18, he was lights out in the WHJC and he can't be considered a spectacular prospect ? I'd argue that he could be considered amongst the top 3 in terms of goalie prospects currently drafted.

Pogge is dominating the CHL as well and had an equally impressive WHJC. I understand the concerns over Pogge but he is soundly a top ten goalie prospect.

Colaiacovo looked very good in his brief stint at both ends of the ice with 7 points in 21 games, solid defensive play and the ability to deliver big hits. The problem with Colaiacovo is his ability to stay healthy and it is a big problem.

The only two other noteworthy prospects are Suglabov and Earl. Earl will probably be a 2nd/3rd liner but it's not like he's a top line prospect. Suglabov's upside is that of a scoring 2nd liner, but he needs more work and a better drive to be that.

The rest of your prospect pool is bleak right now. Very, very bleak.

You might have missed Jay Harrison and Staffan Kronwall play for the Leafs this year. They seem destined to be solid NHL d-men (with a solid chance of becoming top d-men). There's also a Jeremy Williams who is playing at a point per game pace in the AHL after being a 50 goal scorer in the WHL.

We have two other d-men in Europe that are certainly noteworthy in Dimitri Vorobiev and Anton Stralman. Both have performed very well in their respective leagues and looked very good against their own peers in the WHJC.

Lastly, there's current flavour of the month Ian White who has been nothing short of outstanding in his 4 NHL games. I realize it's ONLY 4 games but if the picture was as bleak as you made it out to be, we wouldn't even have these guys shining for 1 game at the NHL level.

At the end of the day, I'm more than content with the Leafs ranking, in fact looking at some of the teams behind us, I'd say the Leafs would afford to move two spots down. The Leafs do have some definite talent in their system, this emergence of so many young kids this year proves that, however they still have a long way to go.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Actually it is pretty relevant. Some of the guys mentioned have become nothing, in fact most of them. It is also pretty relevant that the "awsome" system produced trades like Robyn Regehr + for a handful of games of Theo Fleury.

That's not at all relevent.

A development system for prospects has very little to do with Pierre Lacroix's trades.

He still drafted a top defenseman...

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

Huh?



Jon outright says that he's got below average speed.

Huh?

And I agreed with him and then expanded my thoughts.

Jesus.

 

[MrMastodonFarm*]

Skoula has been THE longest running joke on this message board .

So that means he isn't an NHL player? I mean if the people at hfboards.com say so..

You're out to lunch on this whole Av's thing, just admit it.

 

[xalcyx]

The bottom line is that the Avs prospect system in one way or another led to the Stanley Cup win in 01. If Lacroix hadn't amassed a good stable of quality prospects it would have very hard to get the guys like Blake and Bourque and still only give up so few roster players.

It's easy to throw the Regher trade back in their faces (and I agree it is a HORRIBLE trade), but to counter that argument with similar logic, the Avs basically traded Mike Ricci for Alex Tanguay, so then we just keep going round in circles.

 

[xalcyx]

So from what I gather, the facts of life on HFBoards are as follows:


1. Grass is green
2. Ice is cold
3. Leafs fans are hard done by. In some way. Every. Time.

 

[Hasbro]

It's easy to throw the Regher trade back in their faces (and I agree it is a HORRIBLE trade), but to counter that argument with similar logic, the Avs basically traded Mike Ricci for Alex Tanguay, so then we just keep going round in circles.

I could go through the other 29 systems and find many similar players.

 

[boredmale]

I am not an LA fan but why is there ranking so low? I know they lost a few guys but i thought they ahd a good combination still of top end talent and depth.

I also don't get why some NHL players are considered graduated and other still aprospect(ie like Umberger on Philly compared to Carter or Richards).

 

[BlueAndWhite]

I am not an LA fan but why is there ranking so low? I know they lost a few guys but i thought they ahd a good combination still of top end talent and depth.

I also don't get why some NHL players are considered graduated and other still aprospect(ie like Umberger on Philly compared to Carter or Richards).

IIRC it's based partly on games played (65 NHL games being the cutoff, not sure if playoff games count).

That's one of my few criticisms of this list. I don't usually pay attention to WHEN these lists are released but have they always been released during the season ?

There are some players that are not considered graduated now (as of today) but will be very shortly.

I realize it's hard to come up with a perfect criteria (i.e. if you release the list in the off-season, there might be some players who will be stuck on 64 games to end the season) but it's something people should consider before getting all bent up over the rankings.

 

[boredmale]

IIRC it's based partly on games played (65 NHL games being the cutoff, not sure if playoff games count).

That's one of my few criticisms of this list. I don't usually pay attention to WHEN these lists are released but have they always been released during the season ?

Personally i think it should be a combination that guy has to be under 22 or played less then X amount of games.