Hockey's Future Organizational Rankings, Spring 2011 1-10 - Discuss

[Pyrophorus]

Nope, they havent.

Wanna hear something really funny? When Ottawa made the finals in 2007, they won more playoff series in a season than Toronto ever has.

Since 1927 and 11 cups, is less than the 3 Ottawa won.

Funny as hell.

We haven't made the SCF, but have been to the final 4 4x, in a decade, which no other 06, or Canadian team has done.

 

[Future]

My list

1. Kings
2. St.Louis
3. Nashville
4. Florida
5. Columbus
6. Isles
7. Leafs
8. Rangers
9. Ducks
10. Edmonton

 

[HumanCheatCode]

We haven't made the SCF, but have been to the final 4 4x, in a decade, which no other 06, or Canadian team has done.

Really? The Oilers (a Canadian Team) won 4 cups + 1 Final appearance in the 80's. Does that not count as final 4?

 

[Senor Catface]

Really? The Oilers (a Canadian Team) won 4 cups + 1 Final appearance in the 80's. Does that not count as final 4?

In 10 seasons, from 1982-1983 to 1991-1992, Edmonton made the Conference Finals 8 times in fact. Pretty productive.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I'm a little confused with their "weakness". Isn't Hamonic a crease clearing defenseman that can fight?

yes he is but alone in that category, maybe except de hart but he may not make the NHL. isles do have a bunch of great transition dmen in macdonald, de haan and donovan. those, to me, are the future of the top 4 of the isles. donovan being the most likely to fulfill that and hamonic and macdonald the least likely given they already are top 4 guys. then they have ness and katic who are small and super fast.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

It's close, but you have to give the nod to Toronto. Seguin and Doughty will be a draw I think, close enough for an arguement either way at least. Toronto has the more impactful Schenn brother and I take Kadri over Hickey in the second tier category. Wait a minute....

Seguin, Schenn, with Kadri brought in slowly with two full seasons in the minors would make for some solid building blocks.

Here's a crazy idea, an even better situation in terms of future building blocks, would be Kadri, Schenn, and Kessel

 

[R S]

Why is that shocking? The Panthers have had 2 very very very good drafts in a row, filling up their pool from the back end out.

 

[the word*]

Here's a crazy idea, an even better situation in terms of future building blocks, would be Kadri, Schenn, and Kessel

Kessel will be an UFA after three more seasons, just about the time Seguin, Schenn and even Kadri will be just reaching their primes. I also think Seguin will be a better player than Kessel in a few years. That's my opinion, I wont fault you if you disagree.

 

[AwesomePanthers]

Why is that shocking? The Panthers have had 2 very very very good drafts in a row, filling up their pool from the back end out.

I think he was surprised that he didn't have us higher, or at least that's what I hope for his sake.

Being 2nd was expected, but when I see our depth with all the great prospects not even making our 5-10th best (read MR post - Wilson, Donskoi etc.), then I really have a hard time not seeing us #1. I would rank it number one, but that's me. We got 10 more picks in this draft (one 1st, two 2nd and four 3rds+), so it looks to be another very good draft year for us.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Kessel will be an UFA after three more seasons, just about the time Seguin, Schenn and even Kadri will be just reaching their primes. I also think Seguin will be a better player than Kessel in a few years. That's my opinion, I wont fault you if you disagree.

And that matters because...?

You act as if Kessel won't have re-signed by then or that he won't re-sign.

Kessel will be 27 then. That's when he'll be in his prime. Shenn will be 24 and Kadri will be 23. That's not their primes yet, they're still young.

Seguin vs Kessel is entirely opinion right now. Let's wait a few years.

 

[ct2111]

You've gotta be kidding me. Mediocre? Our #3-9 prospects are Bjugstad, Dadonov, Howden, Petrovic, Shore, Robak, and Repik. Only 1-2 other teams can boast a top 9 as good as that. Then we have Corban Knight who had 44 pts. this season in the NCAA, Sam Brittain who was a top NCAA goalie this season as a freshman and had the best SV% in the WCHA, Garrett Wilson who scored 86 pts. in the OHL and 21 pts. in the playoffs and just captained Owen Sound to the OHL title, and Joonas Donskoi who tied for his team's lead in scoring in the SM-Liiga and had an impressive WJC. And we have plenty of depth beyond that if you want to compare your #15-30 prospects with ours.

I don't want to get into an argument of whether the Panthers deserve or don't deserve to be ranked where they are, because obviously I don't know enough to make a fair judgement, but I don't think the depth is as unique as you make it to be.

The Sabres, who are ranked #14 have Adam, Schiestel, Brennan, Pysyk, McNabb, Tropp and Gragnani from #3-#10. They have Sundher, who had 76points in the WHL, drafted 2010. Then they have Gauthier-Leduc, who was ranked second in this year's QMJHL scoring for d-men, drafted 2010, too. They've got a project d-man in Crawford who was, if I remember correctly, in the CHL's first all-star team a year ago and had a decent rookie season in the AHL. They have Paul Byron who's a little undersized, but looks like he's going to be a decent 3rd line center.

Obviously their top two prospects don't project to be as good as the Panthers' and their depth lasts only till about #20, but if we're strictly speaking about that middle prospect depth, then an average ranked team like the Sabres could hold their own against the Panthers.

 

[R S]

I don't want to get into an argument of whether the Panthers deserve or don't deserve to be ranked where they are, because obviously I don't know enough to make a fair judgement, but I don't think the depth is as unique as you make it to be.

The Sabres, who are ranked #14 have Adam, Schiestel, Brennan, Pysyk, McNabb, Tropp and Gragnani from #3-#10. They have Sundher, who had 76points in the WHL, drafted 2010. Then they have Gauthier-Leduc, who was ranked second in this year's QMJHL scoring for d-men, drafted 2010, too. They've got a project d-man in Crawford who was, if I remember correctly, in the CHL's first all-star team a year ago and had a decent rookie season in the AHL. They have Paul Byron who's a little undersized, but looks like he's going to be a decent 3rd line center.

Obviously their top two prospects don't project to be as good as the Panthers' and their depth lasts only till about #20, but if we're strictly speaking about that middle prospect depth, then an average ranked team like the Sabres could hold their own against the Panthers.

Isn't that a bit contradictory then?

 

[ct2111]

Isn't that a bit contradictory then?

Well, what I mean is that I obviously don't know enough about the prospects itself to make an judgement, if the Panthers should be ranked 1st or 5th, but more generally reading scouting reports/looking at the stats the kind of player these prospects are projected to be. I mean, if a prospect like Justin Jokinen has 20 points in his 3rd NCAA season, then he's pretty much very close to a bust and I wouldn't consider him a good prospect at all anymore.

 

[R S]

Well, what I mean is that I obviously don't know enough about the prospects itself to make an judgement, if the Panthers should be ranked 1st or 5th, but more generally reading scouting reports/looking at the stats the kind of player these prospects are projected to be. I mean, if a prospect like Justin Jokinen has 20 points in his 3rd NCAA season, then he's pretty much very close to a bust and I wouldn't consider him a good prospect at all anymore.

That's why you don't look at players and their point totals. It really means very little in how they will project at the next level or whether or not they will make that next level.

 

[ct2111]

That's why you don't look at players and their point totals. It really means very little in how they will project at the next level or whether or not they will make that next level.

Of course I don't look only at points, as I said I read scouting reports, realistic projections from guys who've seen them play and some of those have already played in the NHL, so you get a feeling what they're projected to (e.g. I know Robak is projected to be a lot better than the stats he put up this year). But when combining them with points, you get a feel, if a prospect had a good/mediocre/bad season, thus making him more or less likely to reach those projections or even exceeding them. Naturally I know more about the Sabres' prospects than I do about other teams', so if anybody who follows those leagues more than I do says I'm overrating my team's prospects, then I won't take offense. But I don't think many really follow all those players enough to make an objective decision and I was only using the other posters argument (as in bringing up prospects who had good seasons) to make a point.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Kessel will be an UFA after three more seasons, just about the time Seguin, Schenn and even Kadri will be just reaching their primes. I also think Seguin will be a better player than Kessel in a few years. That's my opinion, I wont fault you if you disagree.

Edit: nevermind, he will be a UFA, my bad.

 

[bionic]

Toronto won their cups before expansion. Ottawa won 3 series in that particular season. Farthest Leafs have made it since expansion is Conference Final. Thus only winning 2 rounds. It's a meaningless point but it's correct.

Thats what he ment? He could have just said the Sens made it to the SCF while the Leafs Havent. Your right though it is a meaningless point.

 

[nvan97]

Really? The Oilers (a Canadian Team) won 4 cups + 1 Final appearance in the 80's. Does that not count as final 4?

and Montreal won 6 cups in the 70s and final 4 7 times total. And made at least the conference final every year in the 60s including 5 cups.

 

[Dread Clawz]

I don't want to get into an argument of whether the Panthers deserve or don't deserve to be ranked where they are, because obviously I don't know enough to make a fair judgement, but I don't think the depth is as unique as you make it to be.

The Sabres, who are ranked #14 have Adam, Schiestel, Brennan, Pysyk, McNabb, Tropp and Gragnani from #3-#10. They have Sundher, who had 76points in the WHL, drafted 2010. Then they have Gauthier-Leduc, who was ranked second in this year's QMJHL scoring for d-men, drafted 2010, too. They've got a project d-man in Crawford who was, if I remember correctly, in the CHL's first all-star team a year ago and had a decent rookie season in the AHL. They have Paul Byron who's a little undersized, but looks like he's going to be a decent 3rd line center.

Obviously their top two prospects don't project to be as good as the Panthers' and their depth lasts only till about #20, but if we're strictly speaking about that middle prospect depth, then an average ranked team like the Sabres could hold their own against the Panthers.

Idk, I would definitely take the Panthers' pool far ahead of the Sabres, but you could definitely make a case for the Sabres being bumped up a couple spots. I really like the depth on defense in the sabres' pool, guys like Matt Mackenzie and Corey Fienhage are kinda low on their list and that's impressive. But their top end talent isn't quite as good as Florida's and while they do have some real good prospects in the #5-15 range, they still definitely can't match up with Florida's depth guys. I understand what you're saying about your middle guys, but very few teams have the quality and depth at all positions that Florida has.

 

[ct2111]

Idk, I would definitely take the Panthers' pool far ahead of the Sabres, but you could definitely make a case for the Sabres being bumped up a couple spots. I really like the depth on defense in the sabres' pool, guys like Matt Mackenzie and Corey Fienhage are kinda low on their list and that's impressive. But their top end talent isn't quite as good as Florida's and while they do have some real good prospects in the #5-15 range, they still definitely can't match up with Florida's depth guys. I understand what you're saying about your middle guys, but very few teams have the quality and depth at all positions that Florida has.

Well, there's really no point trying to argue that. We disagree simply, the Sabres' depth picks (and with that I mean till about #18-20, no question Florida has a lot more depth beyond that) don't have the draft pedigree the Panthers' have, let's just leave it at that. I also wasn't trying to talk up their prospects, as I think they lack that highly skilled forward talent to be ranked better.

 

[Andrew Knoll]

I don't think they've done prospect orders in a few months. Shore has to have shot up that list.

Most of the lists have been updated with the spring top 20s, perhaps Florida was one of very few (or maybe the only one) that was not updated.

I'm a little confused with their "weakness". Isn't Hamonic a crease clearing defenseman that can fight?

He's on his way to graduating and had to carry a huge load this year as things stood. Stay-at-home depth isn't that strong but you make a very fair point.

I have no idea which LA players have graduated, Clifford is one player but are there any more notable players ? I like LA's pool a lot more actually.

Linden Vey surprisingly had a break out season, the emergence of Tyler Toffoli. Kozun has shown he can put up numbers at the pro level. Loktionov seemed a NHL calibre player when he's playing on his natural position. Players like Weal and Voynov had huge seasons. Perhaps I'm missing something but the Kings pool only got better IMO compared to last year.

Clifford, Lewis and Martinez graduated this year, not exactly the guys holding up the fort on last year's list but they still all contributed very effectively in their roles. Those guys exceeded expectations and the guys who are still prospect-eligible did, too in limited roles with the big club.

Loktionov was a pleasant surprise despite playing out of position and with way more responsibility than expected (first-line LW with power-play duty). Schenn didn't really blow us away in the NHL but he did at other levels (IIHF, CHL). Muzzin looked like he fit in for the most part, needs to improve his reads but has the right attitude, a nice little snap shot that gets through, can skate OK and is physically mature. Bernier showed he has the tools to be a stud, wobbled a little early adjusting to the backup role but finished very strong. He is going to be an excellent goaltender.

 

[NorthlandPro]

It is somewhat easy to draft elite players when you are selecting top 5. It is another thing altogether to find quality players that have to be developed later in the first round and in the second round. That more than anything is what the NYRs are listed as high as they are. They've developed a knack for finding talent, developing it and turning it into quality NHLers.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Surprised the Oil cracked the top 10. Thought they should have been middle of the pack. Pretty sure they jump into the top 5 after the draft though. Find it a little funny that HF does this so close to the draft.

 

[AwesomePanthers]

Well, there's really no point trying to argue that. We disagree simply, the Sabres' depth picks (and with that I mean till about #18-20, no question Florida has a lot more depth beyond that) don't have the draft pedigree the Panthers' have, let's just leave it at that. I also wasn't trying to talk up their prospects, as I think they lack that highly skilled forward talent to be ranked better.

Are you seriously comparing Sabers prospect-pool to ours? Our best prospects are better and the depth is better.

 

[Benttheknee]

Surprised the Oil cracked the top 10. Thought they should have been middle of the pack. Pretty sure they jump into the top 5 after the draft though. Find it a little funny that HF does this so close to the draft.

Agreed. Look at their top prospects. Pretty solid, but not more than that. One through 7 looks good, but are there any that are blue chippers?