- Feb 10, 2010
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Yes, but not at playing hockey. That happens with the children of the children.
Uh, like, maybe.
Yes, but not at playing hockey. That happens with the children of the children.
No, I'm pointing out that if Gordie Howe and Jean Beliveau didn't need elite level minor hockey, then neither do today's players....unless you are acknowledging that today's players face higher level competition.
No, I'm pointing out that if Gordie Howe and Jean Beliveau didn't need elite level minor hockey, then neither do today's players....unless you are acknowledging that today's players face higher level competition.
No, I'm pointing out that if Gordie Howe and Jean Beliveau didn't need elite level minor hockey, then neither do today's players....unless you are acknowledging that today's players face higher level competition.
Good thing Albert Howe just needed to come up with money for skates and a stick...he surely could not have afforded much beyond that. A player from Howe's background would have no chance of ever reaching the NHL today, for no other reason than lack of finances at the developmental age.
The Original Six era pulled players from a Canadian talent pool that included every boy with the desire and talent to play hockey, so long as he could at least afford skates and a stick.
The present day NHL is pulling players from a Canadian talent pool that includes every boy with the desire and talent to play hockey, so long as he can afford to attend hockey schools costing upwards of $50,000 annually.
A lot of top athletic boys these days simply cannot afford the equipment, and catalogue-taped shin pads and horse pie pucks aren't acceptable these days, and with urbanization, pond hockey isn't a fee-free option for the vast majority of kids. Instead, their parents hook them up technologically with a one-time xmas gift and gifted youngsters can become gamers for years and years and never play THE GAME.
NCAA has scholarships out the wazoo for athletes
Didn't care before, but now I think we should take this outside. Scholarships offered to 20 year olds from the NCAA of all places launches this thing way out of coherence...a damaging shot to one's own foot...that's gonna get infected...
It's already been pointed out to you that there are scholarships and other subsidized programs.
NCAA has scholarships out the wazoo for athletes and 30% of the NHL comes from there.
The powers that be are not going to pass up NHL talent because of tuition. NHL players are a gold mine for them.
I can think of one reason why you didn't write it down.
Balls.
More accurately, lack thereof.
I can only think of one reason why you guys desire to pretend the hockey pool has not increased.
Roland Melanson isnt Canadian?
I don't really care for motives or attacks, I'm more about facts.
I think it's pretty clear that the talent pool has changed in the NHL starting in the 70's continuing in the 80's and really exploding in the 90's.
Then perhaps it fluctuated a bit and we are currently seeing a new wave of Finnish and American prospects, among other nations in the overall talent pool.
I don't care about participation rates or population increases, they really don't matter in the big scheme of things here.
What does matter is that starting in the 70's and 80's some of the elite talent in the NHL wasn't coming from the traditional talents streams.
The elite non Canadian talent stream probably peaked a bit in the 90's and has gone up and down a bit since then.
The NHL, starting with Salming in 75, started to see a sprinkle of non Canadians on the post season all star teams, something that hadn't been done since Frank Brismark in 48
In 1983 there were 2 non Canadians on the post season all star teams in Langway and Rollie the goalie Melanson.
The following year 84 it was Langway, Barrasso and Kurri.
In 85 there were 4 players.
By the time the 90's rolled around there were sometimes more than half of the post season all stars that were non Canadians.
This year the 3 leading candidates for the Calder are 2 Swedes and a Finn and in fact the top 7 scoring rookies in the NHL are not Canadians..
Last year it was some Americans and a guy from BC 1 other Canadian and a Swiss in the top 7.
This would all be just trivia if not for one important factor.
Canada was still the dominant hockey nation in the world, producing as much talent as it ever had.
The results are quite clear, the talent pool for the NHL started to change in the 70's and matured somewhat to where it is today sometime in the 90's.
so the notion that the talent pool hasn't changed for the NHL simply is just that, a notion, an idea, a belief.
The fact of the matter is the reality of the NHL talent pool has changed significantly in the last 40 years.
A white russian was consumed during the writing of this post as per the OP (if it applied, even if it didn't it sure was enjoyable).
My bad.
I stand corrected on him but the general trend still remains the same.
Since you are interested in facts only Rollie Melanson is Canadian, from New Brunswick.
You seem to confuse "Market Forces" - WHA and expansion in the 1970s that drove salaries upwards, making hockey a career option with the actual talent pool which did not change.
NCAA graduates started earning more by continuing their hockey career instead of becoming professionals in their field.
Swedish and Finish teams could no longer match or top NA contract offers. Eventually by the 1990s neither could the Soviet Bloc countries.
So you had a redistribution of employment and average careers were significantly extended.
But the actual talent pool did not change.
...And I'm just realizing you probably confused Rollie The Goalie with Ollie The Goalie.
Nope he was affectionately known as "Rollie the Goalie" in Vancouver during his 6 years here as a goalie coach.
for some reason I had his nationality mixed up.
Wouldn't be the first time that someone from the west coast thinks some east coasters are foreigners, or "from away".
Funny that you are the 2nd person to point out this mistake, which I acknowledged, but then didn't even attempt to acknowledge my post.
The distraction below is just that a distraction, which I will get to in the end.
I'm merely noting that new talent streams were entering the NHL at an elite level, the reasons why simply don't matter
See above they were entering on an elite level, reasons why are again unimportant.
Once again there were absolutely zero elite players from any of these 3 countries before 1972 in the NHL, right?
I wasn't talking about average NHLer's but elite players who made post season all star teams.
There were zero elite players in the NHL from outside of Canada before the early 70's when there was a trickle until the zenith in the 90's with a slight fluctuation from the early 9's onwards.
Even "my mistake" in Rollie came from a very weak Canadian province in terms of producing NHL talent.
New Brunswick seems to be the exception that proves the rule in not providing a ton on NHL talent before expansion and not really much afterwards either.
The 2 coasts of Canada had minimal impact on the NHL talent stream until the 70's, 80's and 90's.
There was a discernible increase of talent from particularly BC in the late 80's and 90's.
Burnaby Joe Sakic(and Crosby from the east coast) was just the first one to be inducted into the top 100, there will be one more from BC at least.
A simple 5 minute research confirms this.
None of your statements contradict my observation of the facts.
The NHL, starting with Salming in 75, started to see a sprinkle of non Canadians on the post season all star teams, something that hadn't been done since Frank Brismark in 48
You'll have to throw around a few letters to get the correct spelling/name. It's Bismarck.
Talent streams that existed for generations do not qualify as new.
New Brunswick and BC were producers of elite Senior players as far back as the 1930s.
Market forces kept most at home where hockey and work income was superior to anything the NHL could offer.
Vast majority of Euros and Americans were never named to All Star teams. They were simply average to filler players.
Even today, you have more Canadians playing overseas - KHL etc, than Russian/Soviet players in the NHL. Origin restrictions apply in the KHL, not in the NHL.
Easily verifiable.
So you just have redistribution of talent that in no way impacts on the project mandate.
Once again you are talking about senior league players and Canadians playing in lesser leagues than the NHL.
I'm talking about elite players and provinces producing elite NHL players.
New Brunswick is the exception that proves the rule. Nova Scotia 2 elite players are in the NHl in the 80s and Crosby.
BC produces Hull, Kariya and Sakic in a space of around 15 years.
Pre expansion zero elite players and only a sprinkling.
So yes that's a huge change.
Ditto Americans and non Canadians something you can't dispute as providing elite NHLers where pre expansion one existed in the NHL.
Just put him on ignore.
Such a lame, waste of time engaging somebody not even involved in this project, and talking about something that has nothing to do with said project.
I'm merely noting that new talent streams were entering the NHL at an elite level, the reasons why simply don't matter.