Hockey of the past vs today

[Sentinel]

In "absolute terms" Ovechkin would obliterate Hull. Even with the old equipment, the best players are faster, stronger, smarter, etc. than the best players 50 years ago (in a "time machine" scenario).

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[Individual 1]

Is there such a thing? In "absolute terms" Ovechkin would obliterate Hull. Even with the old equipment, the best players are faster, stronger, smarter, etc. than the best players 50 years ago (in a "time machine" scenario).

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

In "absolute terms" Ovechkin would obliterate Hull. Even with the old equipment, the best players are faster, stronger, smarter, etc. than the best players 50 years ago (in a "time machine" scenario).

Not smarter.

And faster and stronger doesn't mean that much in hockey if you can't use it properly.

 

[Killion]

Not smarter.

And faster and stronger doesn't mean that much in hockey if you can't use it properly.

Dunno, but maybe @Sentinel "smarter" in terms of lifestyle? Everything from diet to sleep, off-ice training & so on. Certainly todays players far better educated & disciplined (shockingly so in fact) than yesteryears. Of course its demanded of them but still. In that department or category sure their smarter, educated. These are all Sprinters really, age of Specialization, players much more one dimensional on the whole however rather than paying it forward whereby one inserts a Bobby Hull or whomever into a 2018 game & lineup, with some of the singular multi-talents like Crosby, Malkin, Ovi etc I prefer to turn back the clock, speculate as to how they'd do on tube skates, wooden sticks, training regimens, travel & diet etc of the late 50's through mid 60's.

 

[wetcoast]

Not smarter.

And faster and stronger doesn't mean that much in hockey if you can't use it properly.

How exactly does one measure which players are smarter?

Time and space also has diminished over time, which are probably the 2 biggest factors that diminish smart players as they go up different levels of hockey development.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Folks, players and humans have been growing quite rapidly over generations. Look at the average size of a hockey player in 1920 compared to today. Being over 6 foot tall then generally made you a monster. Today? It's average.

Advancements in medicine, training, diets, travel, technology in general has ensured players are better prepared, better rested and can recover more quickly and at or near 100% fashion than players of era's past. Bobby Orr would have still been playing hockey past 30 had he been given the same quality of medicine and surgery that exists today. They had no damn clue what they were doing when they were slicing his knees open 40+ years ago.

 

[wetcoast]

Dunno, but maybe @Sentinel "smarter" in terms of lifestyle? Everything from diet to sleep, off-ice training & so on. Certainly todays players far better educated & disciplined (shockingly so in fact) than yesteryears. Of course its demanded of them but still. In that department or category sure their smarter, educated. These are all Sprinters really, age of Specialization, players much more one dimensional on the whole however rather than paying it forward whereby one inserts a Bobby Hull or whomever into a 2018 game & lineup, with some of the singular multi-talents like Crosby, Malkin, Ovi etc I prefer to turn back the clock, speculate as to how they'd do on tube skates, wooden sticks, training regimens, travel & diet etc of the late 50's through mid 60's.

What does the term singular multi talents mean exactly and more specifically to the 3 player you mention as it's not clear at all what you are referring to.

 

[Killion]

What does the term singular multi talents mean exactly and more specifically to the 3 player you mention as it's not clear at all what you are referring to.

Players like Ovechkin, Kane, McDavid etc... by "singular" I mean they are in many ways throwbacks to yesterdays players whereby they do have fairly full toolboxes whereas the vast majority of players tend to be much more one dimensional, total specialists. Blinkered. The way the games taught, style of play, coached. Micromanaged to death. System hockey. Too much science & not enough artistry. Players not given the rope to be creative the way they once were & its a shame really as some of what we do see.... mind blowing.

 

[sr edler]

Folks, players and humans have been growing quite rapidly over generations. Look at the average size of a hockey player in 1920 compared to today. Being over 6 foot tall then generally made you a monster. Today? It's average.

Advancements in medicine, training, diets, travel, technology in general has ensured players are better prepared, better rested and can recover more quickly and at or near 100% fashion than players of era's past. Bobby Orr would have still been playing hockey past 30 had he been given the same quality of medicine and surgery that exists today. They had no damn clue what they were doing when they were slicing his knees open 40+ years ago.

People today are getting fatter and lazier too, playing Fortnite instead of working on a farm. I'm not into the linear theory at all, way too simplistic. Bure stopped playing in the 00s but they couldn't save his knees. If medicine and technology can heal any injury today, no biggie, then why did Matthews have to miss so many games both last year and this one? Stamkos hasn't looked the same after his leg break, happened only 5 years ago. They should probably try some retrospective mood lazer and he'll be popping the same way again right?

 

[wetcoast]

Players like Ovechkin, Kane, McDavid etc... by "singular" I mean they are in many ways throwbacks to yesterdays players whereby they do have fairly full toolboxes whereas the vast majority of players tend to be much more one dimensional, total specialists. Blinkered. The way the games taught, style of play, coached. Micromanaged to death. System hockey. Too much science & not enough artistry. Players not given the rope to be creative the way they once were & its a shame really as some of what we do see.... mind blowing.

Okay and I agree but that's not for the lack of talent but more on coaching and league management.

Yes I'm looking at Ryan Miller and Gary Bettman here.

 

[Sentinel]

Not smarter.

And faster and stronger doesn't mean that much in hockey if you can't use it properly.

By "smarter" I meant "quicker mental reaction." Obviously Ovechkin is not smarter than your typical 60s tree logger.

 

[wetcoast]

People today are getting fatter and lazier too, playing Fortnite instead of working on a farm. I'm not into the linear theory at all, way too simplistic. Bure stopped playing in the 00s but they couldn't save his knees. If medicine and technology can heal any injury today, no biggie, then why did Matthews have to miss so many games both last year and this one? Stamkos hasn't looked the same after his leg break, happened only 5 years ago. They should probably try some retrospective mood lazer and he'll be popping the same way again right?

I think it's more physics and repetition.

Bigger and faster moving objects colliding much more often.

 

[ImporterExporter]

People today are getting fatter and lazier too, playing Fortnite instead of working on a farm. I'm not into the linear theory at all, way too simplistic. Bure stopped playing in the 00s but they couldn't save his knees. If medicine and technology can heal any injury today, no biggie, then why did Matthews have to miss so many games both last year and this one? Stamkos hasn't looked the same after his leg break, happened only 5 years ago. They should probably try some retrospective mood lazer and he'll be popping the same way again right?

Agree completely but that is the average person. Not a pro athlete. Pro athletes don't get to where they are by engaging in those things.

And while I see where you're coming from on the rest of it, it is a bit off base IMO.

Matthews getting injured and missing time is not really the point. The point is there are methods that exist today that actually HEAL/REPAIR things that doctors couldn't do 20, 30, 50, 100 years ago. So you know what Bobby Orr did? Played through the pain. But in doing so he ended his career earlier because he didn't have access to the same care players do today. At some point all those ailments were just too much.

Stamkos's leg break would have likely been a career ending injury 50+ years ago. In fact, more than a few players lost their careers completely with bad breaks like the one he suffered. So while SS may not be a 60 goal scorer these days he's still a really good hockey player, capable of playing at a high level.

 

[sr edler]

Agree completely but that is the average person. Not a pro athlete. Pro athletes don't get to where they are by engaging in those things.

Haven't you heard Laine is a Fortnite addict? Probably why he can't create his own goals/chances and is on pace for 14 assists or something.

 

[Midnight Judges]

That video speaks to the evolutionary aspect, but not to the fact that Ovechkin plays against vastly superior competition - which is a huge factor.

 

[wetcoast]

That video speaks to the evolutionary aspect, but not to the fact that Ovechkin plays against vastly superior competition - which is a huge factor.

I think that the video made some interesting points about individual sports like running and swimming but they didn't translate very well to such a dynamic team sport like hockey.

I'm not even sure why the video was brought up in the first place.

 

[Individual 1]

I think that the video made some interesting points about individual sports like running and swimming but they didn't translate very well to such a dynamic team sport like hockey.

I'm not even sure why the video was brought up in the first place.

When it comes to being stronger and faster at hockey it does.

The biggest difference between players of the past and players of today is technology. Better skates allow for the average person to be a much better skater, equipment is much lighter while offering more protection, sticks are greatly improved, and changes in goalie equipment allowed for massive changes in how the position is played.

Does Richard skating up the wing with the puck compared to Ovi, differ that much from Jesse Owens running on a track vs Usain Bolt in terms of speed and strength?

 

[Midnight Judges]

The biggest difference between players of the past and players of today is technology.

I would argue that the amount of hockey players world wide is much more significant.

Whereas Bobby Hull was playing in a league where 99%+ of the talent was drawn from one country with 16 million people, today Ovechkin is playing in a league where less than half the talent is drawn from that same country, which now has a population of 36 million. The likelihood is that Ovechkin is competing against a larger quantity of elite players - which increases the difficulty of leading the league in a given year.

 

[Canadiens1958]

I would argue that the amount of hockey players world wide is much more significant.

Whereas Bobby Hull was playing in a league where 99%+ of the talent was drawn from one country with 16 million people, today Ovechkin is playing in a league where less than half the talent is drawn from that same country, which now has a population of 36 million. The likelihood is that Ovechkin is competing against a larger quantity of elite players - which increases the difficulty of leading the league in a given year.

Same is true for the 1936 Summer Olympics. Smaller world population with many countries unable to attend for various reasons.

Regardless, you and similar "populationists" always fail to show who the phantom players or participants were who could have played in the O6 NHL or participated in the 1936 Summer Olympics.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

The biggest difference between players of the past and present is not technology or international players. Think about it.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Regardless, you and similar "populationists" always fail to show who the phantom players or participants were who could have played in the O6 NHL or participated in the 1936 Summer Olympics.

How exactly could someone even do that?

 

[Canadiens1958]

Contemporary accounts and reports.

 

[Weztex]

How exactly could someone even do that?

I think that's exactly the point that Canadiens1958 is making. You can certainly give credit to modern players for dominating a larger talent pool. But why would we hold it against players from yesteryears for not proving they could dominate a talent pool that didn't even exist?

 

[Midnight Judges]

I think that's exactly the point that Canadiens1958 is making. You can certainly give credit to modern players for dominating a larger talent pool. But why would we hold it against players from yesteryears for not proving they could dominate a talent pool that didn't even exist?

The whole point is to be equitable to all generations.

People who refuse to acknowledge population differences as a real factor are not being equitable to the modern players.

 

[Canadiens1958]

I think that's exactly the point that Canadiens1958 is making. You can certainly give credit to modern players for dominating a larger talent pool. But why would we hold it against players from yesteryears for not proving they could dominate a talent pool that didn't even exist?

Pretty much so except today's talent pool is more than likely smaller than a generation or two ago.