Theokritos
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- Apr 6, 2010
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More "Canadians playing hockey in Britain" Trivial Pursuit when we get to the 1970s (hint).
I don't plan to carry on that far.
More "Canadians playing hockey in Britain" Trivial Pursuit when we get to the 1970s (hint).
The LIHG had ruled that from 1911 on national teams were not allowed to use "foreign players" at the European Championship.
The LIHG had ruled that from 1911 on players needed to be citizens of the country they were representing at the European Championship in order to be eligible.
I was reading a 2009 Manitoba Hockey Hall Of Fame Newsletter and came on this:
A member of the Society for International Hockey Research eList on Yahoo asked about the first televised game in the United Kingdom. UK hockey expert Martin Harris advised that the game between Harringay Racers and Streatham was shown on the BBC on Oct. 29, 1938 and that Manitoba had a connection to the game. Wally Monson played for Harringay and Stewart MacPherson was the commentator.
I was reading a 2009 Manitoba Hockey Hall Of Fame Newsletter and came on this:
A member of the Society for International Hockey Research eList on Yahoo asked about the first televised game in the United Kingdom. UK hockey expert Martin Harris advised that the game between Harringay Racers and Streatham was shown on the BBC on Oct. 29, 1938 and that Manitoba had a connection to the game. Wally Monson played for Harringay and Stewart MacPherson was the commentator.
Of particular interest to me is the absence of any lines on the ice or even the boards. Whats going on with that in terms of rules?
And unless totally out of frame, Im not seeing any on-ice officials. All off-ice?... or perhaps the photo's of an "exhibition match", just sort of a "shinny" game huh?
Accommodation is not yet suitable for professional hockey, and if anyone were to attempt to introduce the commercialized form of the game, it might very well spell disaster for the chances that hockey has today for gaining national popularity in England. The only professional game which appeals to the British sporting public just now is football, and if we tried to acclimatize them to professional hockey under existing circumstances, in which only a few thousand people can attend a game, and in which the game might very well fail financially, it would only give hockey a black eye and undo all the progress we have made in the past few years.
I don't plan to carry on that far.
Part 6
For all the progress ice hockey was making in Great Britain, BIHA president Magwood (see Part 5) still named one issue preventing the advent of North American-style professionalism: the capacity of British ice rinks did not allow more than 3,000-5,000 spectators to attend hockey games. In his own words:
Those circumstances however were already starting to change.
July 1934 saw the opening of the Empire Pool and Sports Arena at Wembley. With a reported capacity of 10,000 it was the largest covered sport arena in Great Britain so far and (in the words of former McGill University student Tommy Robertson) it provided London with "as fine a hockey arena" as existed "anywhere in the world". Wembley hosted two English League teams: a new club called Wembley Lions (borrowing their name from the London Lions that had disappeared in 1933) and Grosvenor House Canadians who abandoned Park Lane and renamed themselves Wembley Canadians (to become Wembley Monarchs in 1936). According the Robertson, the attendance at Empire Pool ranged between 5,000 and 8,000 per league game in the 1934-1935 season.
The next major hockey arena to appear was the Empress Hall at Earls Court. Reportedly built "along the lines of Detroit Olympia", it was inaugurated on November 1st 1935, at the start of the 1935-1936 season. With its capacity of 7,000 it was smaller than the Wembley Arena, but still considerably larger than other London rinks like Streatham (~3,000). This arena too was supposed to host two new teams: Earls Court Rangers and Kensington Corinthians (renamed Earls Court Royals in 1936, folded in 1937).
In October 1936 another large hockey rink was opened: Harringay Arena in North London with a capacity ranging somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000 (I've read conflicting statements). Again, the new arenas supported two new clubs at once: Harringay Racers and Harringay Greyhounds. Together with Wembley, Harringay would host the LIHG/IIHF World Championship in February 1937.
Part 2
Canadian ice hockey as it developed in the 1870s and 1880s differed from the version played in the home country in several aspects. Most notably the ball was replaced by a disc, the puck, and forward passing was forbidden. Beyond that, the number of players was reduced: the first organized hockey game in Montreal (1875) featured nine players per team and the 1883 Winter Carnival seven per side. This remained the norm until the period from 1911-1922 when one league after the other decided to drop the seventh player. Bandy on the other hand was played with eleven a side, although there were also versions with fewer players. The first European Bandy Championship in 1913 was played with seven players per team, which seemingly had become the norm in most european countries by then, possibly under the impression of Canadian hockey and its growing popularity.
Admirable thread start Theokritos. But just to set the record straight on a couple of things. In England hockey on the ice was played with a bung long before 1875. In fact, if you look at the now famous Le Petit engraving from London 1797, you can clearly see the young man with a bung in front of him, the bung of course being very similar to a puck. (see link - owner of the stipple engraving) http://www.consultlefebvre.com/blog
There are numerous contemporary English newspaper reports of hockey on the ice played with a bung, dating back to at least 1822.
The other point I would like to address is the widespread myth that the first European Bandy Championship was played in 1913. There never was one, which explains the absence of results as well as contemporary sources...
Thanks for the input. I was aware that a disc or something similar was in use in England prior to 1875, though unaware of the amount of sources, especially written sources. But even though such an object was used, it did not become prevalent over the use of a ball. The variety of hockey on ice as codified in England & spreading throughout Europe from there, Bandy, was not played with the disc, it was played with the ball. It took the Canadian development of ice hockey to establish the disc as the object of play.
I did not conduct extensive research on that one, but the Wikipedia article in question for once provides several sources with some detailed information. For example, the Bandy Championship is said to have featured seven participants, as opposed to the LIHG tournaments you refer to (January 1913: four participants, February 1913: five participants).
I also would like to point out that a ball was used frequently in ice hockey games around Canada up until the mid 1880s. It is a common misconception that a disc/puck was used in all Canadian games from 1875 and onwards. So yes, the Canadians established the disc/puck, but it was used in England long before Canada. That was my only point.
I just thought that the record should be straightened out once and for all. It is not my intention to be difficult here, but have you even looked at the so called sources ?
There are six of them in total (associated to the Wikipedia article)....
Let us just agree to disagree that we probably view what is "detailed information" differently. All I can say is that there was no European Bandy Championship in 1913, it is as simple as that.
Anyway, keep up the good work Theokritos, it is always nice to see ambitious hockey fans like you.
Key element in signing Canadians was the introduction of an NHL Salary Cap at the start of the 1932-33 season combined with roster réductions. This had a ripple effect in minor and senior hockey as players were displaced, minor and senior teams folded or reduced rosters so players played below their previous level.
It's true there are no primary (contemporary) sources given, but I have a hard time believing that the detailed claims made (seven countries participated: Great Britain/England, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Italy; two countries turned the invitation down because they were not d'accord with the proposed rules: Sweden and Russia; the tournament was won by Great Britain/England) should simply be made up.
It's not a very satisfying state if we agree to disagree, but I would need more persuading here.
I of course can't show you a contemporary source that says "there was no European Bandy Championship held in 1913" as an answer to a book from the 1970s.
As I said, I will not be able to convince you because it is much more difficult, almost impossible to debunk a myth about something that allegedly took place.
I have personally gone through local libraries in the Graubünden area in and around Davos, and believe me, if a European Bandy Championship had been held there, the local newspapers would have written about it. They wrote a lot when international ice hockey teams came to Davos, St.Moritz or any other nearby venue.
You also have to ask yourself why there are no results available, and why there are no contemporary sources (newspapers, photos, etc,etc). There is plenty of information available on early European Championships (Ice Hockey), but magically enough nothing about this phantom tournament.
I believe that this erroneous information originally comes from a gentleman by the name of Åke Dunér, a Swedish bandy historian who mentioned this in a book from the 1970s. Unfortunately there were quite a few errors throughout that section, one of them being the 1913 info.
The following photograph allegedly shows the English team at the 1913 Bandy Championship:
Are all of the information I have referred to included in that book by Dunér?
That photograph was taken between January 5 and 7, 1891 when Bury Fen Bandy Club introduced the game in Holland.
Yes I believe so.
Hard to explain how he could've come up with such, well, nonsense if you are right. Have you read the book?
Okay. I'm willing to attach a question mark to the 1913 tournament. It's really not the topic of this thread though.