Hockey in Great Britain, Early Years

[Theokritos]

More "Canadians playing hockey in Britain" Trivial Pursuit when we get to the 1970s (hint).

I don't plan to carry on that far.

 

[mbhhofr]

I was reading a 2009 Manitoba Hockey Hall Of Fame Newsletter and came on this:

A member of the Society for International Hockey Research eList on Yahoo asked about the first televised game in the United Kingdom. UK hockey expert Martin Harris advised that the game between Harringay Racers and Streatham was shown on the BBC on Oct. 29, 1938 and that Manitoba had a connection to the game. Wally Monson played for Harringay and Stewart MacPherson was the commentator.

 

[Theokritos]

Addition to Part 4-5

Oxford University IHC in 1922, featuring Lester B. Pearson (front row, second from left):

London Lions, founded in 1924 by Canadian Blaine Sexton:

Toronto Varsity Grads (missing their coach Conn Smythe) defeat Great Britain at the 1928 Olympics:

Charles Herbert Little, leading goaltender in Europe 1930-1933:

Blaine Sexton giving hockey instructions (1931):

 

[Theokritos]

Just realized that one sentence in Part 3 needed to be fixed too. The new version:

The LIHG had ruled that from 1911 on national teams were not allowed to use "foreign players" at the European Championship.

Old version was:

The LIHG had ruled that from 1911 on players needed to be citizens of the country they were representing at the European Championship in order to be eligible.

 

[mbhhofr]

I was reading a 2009 Manitoba Hockey Hall Of Fame Newsletter and came on this:

A member of the Society for International Hockey Research eList on Yahoo asked about the first televised game in the United Kingdom. UK hockey expert Martin Harris advised that the game between Harringay Racers and Streatham was shown on the BBC on Oct. 29, 1938 and that Manitoba had a connection to the game. Wally Monson played for Harringay and Stewart MacPherson was the commentator.

Stewart McPherson was the father of Murray "Muzz" McPherson. Muzz was born in England and then they moved back to Winnipeg. Muzz was coaching the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds in 1977-78 season when Wayne Gretzky came to play for them. Gretzky wanted #9, his idol Gordie Howe's number but it was already being worn by another player. Muzz suggested that he wear two #9's which was better than one. The rest is history.

 

[Killion]

I was reading a 2009 Manitoba Hockey Hall Of Fame Newsletter and came on this:

A member of the Society for International Hockey Research eList on Yahoo asked about the first televised game in the United Kingdom. UK hockey expert Martin Harris advised that the game between Harringay Racers and Streatham was shown on the BBC on Oct. 29, 1938 and that Manitoba had a connection to the game. Wally Monson played for Harringay and Stewart MacPherson was the commentator.

Interesting Manitoba connections huh?.... and ya, the BBC was the first to air hockey on the then brand new medium of television. It wasnt until the mid 40's that the NY Rangers aired a game (the first for the NHL) and in Los Angeles a station covered & aired several minor-pro tilts a good 6-7yrs before the CBC in 52 hit the airwaves with HNIC. But yes, the distinction for "very first" does lie in the UK.

Also awesome photo's up there Theo, nice job rounding them up & posting them here. Of particular interest to me is the absence of any lines on the ice or even the boards. Whats going on with that in terms of rules?... And unless totally out of frame, Im not seeing any on-ice officials. All off-ice?... or perhaps the photo's of an "exhibition match", just sort of a "shinny" game huh?

 

[Theokritos]

Of particular interest to me is the absence of any lines on the ice or even the boards. Whats going on with that in terms of rules?

Not sure when the LIHG/IIHF did introduce the blue lines, but the 1931 article by Sexton clearly refers to "centre ice" where checking is not allowed - and what is supposed to define centre ice if not a pair of blue lines?

And unless totally out of frame, Im not seeing any on-ice officials. All off-ice?... or perhaps the photo's of an "exhibition match", just sort of a "shinny" game huh?

Supposedly a Varsity Match (1931?) between Oxford and Cambridge, there should have been an official in it. The picture above from the 1928 Olympics (by coincidence at the same rink, St. Moritz/Switzerland) doesn't show a referee either but it's not possible an Olympic game was played without one. I fear out of frame must be the right answer. Note the shadow from the left side stretching to the goaltender, in line and meshing with his shadow - maybe that's where the ref was located?

 

[Killion]

^^^ Yes perhaps Theo. Could be off in the corner out of frame. Must be.

 

[Theokritos]

Part 6

For all the progress ice hockey was making in Great Britain, BIHA president Magwood (see Part 5) still named one issue preventing the advent of North American-style professionalism: the capacity of British ice rinks did not allow more than 3,000-5,000 spectators to attend hockey games. In his own words:

Accommodation is not yet suitable for professional hockey, and if anyone were to attempt to introduce the commercialized form of the game, it might very well spell disaster for the chances that hockey has today for gaining national popularity in England. The only professional game which appeals to the British sporting public just now is football, and if we tried to acclimatize them to professional hockey under existing circumstances, in which only a few thousand people can attend a game, and in which the game might very well fail financially, it would only give hockey a black eye and undo all the progress we have made in the past few years.

Those circumstances however were already starting to change.

July 1934 saw the opening of the Empire Pool and Sports Arena at Wembley. With a reported capacity of 10,000 it was the largest covered sport arena in Great Britain so far and (in the words of former McGill University student Tommy Robertson) it provided London with "as fine a hockey arena" as existed "anywhere in the world". Wembley hosted two English League teams: a new club called Wembley Lions (borrowing their name from the London Lions that had disappeared in 1933) and Grosvenor House Canadians who abandoned Park Lane and renamed themselves Wembley Canadians (to become Wembley Monarchs in 1936). According the Robertson, the attendance at Empire Pool ranged between 5,000 and 8,000 per league game in the 1934-1935 season.

The next major hockey arena to appear was the Empress Hall at Earls Court. Reportedly built "along the lines of Detroit Olympia", it was inaugurated on November 1st 1935, at the start of the 1935-1936 season. With its capacity of 7,000 it was smaller than the Wembley Arena, but still considerably larger than other London rinks like Streatham (~3,000). This arena too was supposed to host two new teams: Earls Court Rangers and Kensington Corinthians (renamed Earls Court Royals in 1936, folded in 1937).

In October 1936 another large hockey rink was opened: Harringay Arena in North London with a capacity ranging somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000 (I've read conflicting statements). Again, the new arenas supported two new clubs at once: Harringay Racers and Harringay Greyhounds. Together with Wembley, Harringay would host the LIHG/IIHF World Championship in February 1937.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

I don't plan to carry on that far.

Here it is then (the goalie):
http://www.ihjuk.co.uk/gbroster/1977.html

 

[Canadiens1958]

Depression

Part 6

For all the progress ice hockey was making in Great Britain, BIHA president Magwood (see Part 5) still named one issue preventing the advent of North American-style professionalism: the capacity of British ice rinks did not allow more than 3,000-5,000 spectators to attend hockey games. In his own words:



Those circumstances however were already starting to change.

July 1934 saw the opening of the Empire Pool and Sports Arena at Wembley. With a reported capacity of 10,000 it was the largest covered sport arena in Great Britain so far and (in the words of former McGill University student Tommy Robertson) it provided London with "as fine a hockey arena" as existed "anywhere in the world". Wembley hosted two English League teams: a new club called Wembley Lions (borrowing their name from the London Lions that had disappeared in 1933) and Grosvenor House Canadians who abandoned Park Lane and renamed themselves Wembley Canadians (to become Wembley Monarchs in 1936). According the Robertson, the attendance at Empire Pool ranged between 5,000 and 8,000 per league game in the 1934-1935 season.

The next major hockey arena to appear was the Empress Hall at Earls Court. Reportedly built "along the lines of Detroit Olympia", it was inaugurated on November 1st 1935, at the start of the 1935-1936 season. With its capacity of 7,000 it was smaller than the Wembley Arena, but still considerably larger than other London rinks like Streatham (~3,000). This arena too was supposed to host two new teams: Earls Court Rangers and Kensington Corinthians (renamed Earls Court Royals in 1936, folded in 1937).

In October 1936 another large hockey rink was opened: Harringay Arena in North London with a capacity ranging somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000 (I've read conflicting statements). Again, the new arenas supported two new clubs at once: Harringay Racers and Harringay Greyhounds. Together with Wembley, Harringay would host the LIHG/IIHF World Championship in February 1937.

Very interesting that arenas with the capacity listed above were being built in Great Britain during the Depression era.

Canada trended the other way. Large arenas were not built even though MLG had proven to be very successful.

In the second half of the thirties a few Québec municipalities built smaller arenas < 3,000 capacity as part of job creation programs.

Seems that sports or hockey in Great Britain and elsewhere in Europe was not impacted as severely during the Depression as it was in Canada.

 

[Theokritos]

Part 7

In the 1930s level of play and competition in the English League were increasing steadily. Instead of being content with the talent that happened to be available among Canadians in England, teams started to actively recruit quality players from Canada in Europe and in Canada. As a sign of things to come, center Frank LeBlanc from the Allan Cup-winning Moncton Hawks (Maritime Senior Hockey League) went over to play for Queen's Ice Hockey Club (known as Prince's Club before their move to a new rink) in 1933 and helped the team to finish second in the league, behind the Canadians club and ahead of Oxford University.

In the 1934 offseason the signing of Canadian players gained monumentum. Wembley Lions announced their arrival by introducing four players from Ottawa: Lou Bates (had played for Ottawa Shamrocks in the Ottawa City Senior League before going to Paris for a season), Bobby Walton (Montagnards, Ottawa City Senior League), Edgar Murphy (Montagnards, Ottawa City Senior League) and Eddie Coulter (Almonte, Nickel Belt League). Canadians club, relocated from Grosvenor House Hotel to the Wembley Empire Pool, added Jake Milford (later to serve as GM of the Los Angeles Kings and the Vancouver Canucks) and Sonny Rost (both from the Kenora Thistles, Manitoba Junior Hockey League champions) to their championship-winning roster. Milford is said to have turned down offers from the Detroit Red Wings and New York Rangers. Meanwhile Streatham, fourth in the 1933-1934 season, managed to hire Robert Giddens (veteran who had played for Ottawa Montagnard and Harvard University before going to Paris like Lou Bates), Red Stapleford (from Windsor Mic Macs, Ontario Hockey Association champions) and goaltender Maurice Gerth (Stratford midgets in the OHA junior series). Richmond Hawks, a newcomer team, brought over forwards Joe Beaton (Charlottetown Abegweits, Maritime Senior Hockey League) and Tommy Robertson (McGill University, Montreal Senior Group/later to be renamed Quebec Senior Hockey League) as well as defenceman Ernie Leacock (who had several years of professional hockey in the Pacific Coast Hockey League, Western Canada Hockey League and North West Hockey League under his belt).

The recruiting was usually done by Canadian players and coaches already engaged with clubs in England. Spending the summer months back home in Canada, they would use their personal contacts to former team mates and convince them of the merits of the British League. Red Stapleford and Maurice Gerth for example were recruited by Streatham player Bert Shaw: all of them had played for Stratford midgets as juniors. One year leater Stapleford himself would begin to spread the word to his former Windsor team mates.

The main incentive for Canadian players to go to England was money. Sonny Rost would later recall: "At the time, New York Rovers (a farm team of the Rangers) were offering a player $25.00 a week, while over there they were paying $50.00". In British currency: "When I first arrived at Wembley Canadians I took home £5 a week. The football lads were getting a £1 less. Then they doubled my pay." Other incentives mentioned are the chance to see England and the availability of cheap alcohol there (the latter allegation possibly not to be taken at face value, then again, who knows). Since hockey was officially an amateur sport in Great Britain, the signing of players from Canada was done in a manner of "shamateurism": rink operators and team owners created well-paid jobs that the players would nominally be hired for. That the commercialization of hockey was well on its way in England in the 1930s is highlighted by the fact that popular stars of the British League began to appear in commercial advertisement, for example Lou Bates (Player's cigarettes) and Sonny Rost (Gillette razor blades).

 

[Canadiens1958]

Very Interesting

^^^ The appearance of players in advertising points to a level of sponsorship.

Key element in signing Canadians was the introduction of an NHL Salary Cap at the start of the 1932-33 season combined with roster réductions. This had a ripple effect in minor and senior hockey as players were displaced, minor and senior teams folded or reduced rosters so players played below their previous level.

The effects of the Depression in Great Britain and Europe vs Canada have to be considered. The access to a job and steady employment were key factors in players moving within Canada.

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

Part 2

Canadian ice hockey as it developed in the 1870s and 1880s differed from the version played in the home country in several aspects. Most notably the ball was replaced by a disc, the puck, and forward passing was forbidden. Beyond that, the number of players was reduced: the first organized hockey game in Montreal (1875) featured nine players per team and the 1883 Winter Carnival seven per side. This remained the norm until the period from 1911-1922 when one league after the other decided to drop the seventh player. Bandy on the other hand was played with eleven a side, although there were also versions with fewer players. The first European Bandy Championship in 1913 was played with seven players per team, which seemingly had become the norm in most european countries by then, possibly under the impression of Canadian hockey and its growing popularity.

Admirable thread start Theokritos. But just to set the record straight on a couple of things. In England hockey on the ice was played with a bung long before 1875. In fact, if you look at the now famous Le Petit engraving from London 1797, you can clearly see the young man with a bung in front of him, the bung of course being very similar to a puck. (see link - owner of the stipple engraving) http://www.consultlefebvre.com/blog
There are numerous contemporary English newspaper reports of hockey on the ice played with a bung, dating back to at least 1822.

The other point I would like to address is the widespread myth that the first European Bandy Championship was played in 1913. There never was one, which explains the absence of results as well as contemporary sources.

There was an international club tournament played in Les Avants in January 1913 (won by Princes IHC London), but that was ice hockey, and the other teams who participated there, included three Swiss teams and one Belgian. The other international tournament that was played in Switzerland in 1913 was the second LIHG tournament (February). This one was played on the grounds of St. Moritz Bandy and Ice Hockey Club. Their ice surface had "bandy ground dimensions" but had so called "Canadian boards" as they were referred to in contemporary newspapers. Germany won this tournament after a tie-breaking procedure (more goals) ahead of England. The other teams that competed included France, Bohemia and Switzerland.

So just to set the record straight once and for all, there was no European Bandy Championship in 1913. That entire Wikipedia entry can be deleted.

 

[Theokritos]

Admirable thread start Theokritos. But just to set the record straight on a couple of things. In England hockey on the ice was played with a bung long before 1875. In fact, if you look at the now famous Le Petit engraving from London 1797, you can clearly see the young man with a bung in front of him, the bung of course being very similar to a puck. (see link - owner of the stipple engraving) http://www.consultlefebvre.com/blog
There are numerous contemporary English newspaper reports of hockey on the ice played with a bung, dating back to at least 1822.

Thanks for the input. I was aware that a disc or something similar was in use in England prior to 1875, though unaware of the amount of sources, especially written sources. But even though such an object was used, it did not become prevalent over the use of a ball. The variety of hockey on ice as codified in England & spreading throughout Europe from there, Bandy, was not played with the disc, it was played with the ball. It took the Canadian development of ice hockey to establish the disc as the object of play.

A picture of the 1797 engraving you refer to is available online:

The other point I would like to address is the widespread myth that the first European Bandy Championship was played in 1913. There never was one, which explains the absence of results as well as contemporary sources...

I did not conduct extensive research on that one, but the Wikipedia article in question for once provides several sources with some detailed information. For example, the Bandy Championship is said to have featured seven participants, as opposed to the LIHG tournaments you refer to (January 1913: four participants, February 1913: five participants).

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

Thanks for the input. I was aware that a disc or something similar was in use in England prior to 1875, though unaware of the amount of sources, especially written sources. But even though such an object was used, it did not become prevalent over the use of a ball. The variety of hockey on ice as codified in England & spreading throughout Europe from there, Bandy, was not played with the disc, it was played with the ball. It took the Canadian development of ice hockey to establish the disc as the object of play.

It is true that the use of a ball was the prevalent playing object in England. Bandy games for example were exclusively played with a ball. Although it is worth noting that Harold Blackett, who founded the Virginia Water team in 1873 used a bung and light ash sticks.
I also would like to point out that a ball was used frequently in ice hockey games around Canada up until the mid 1880s. It is a common misconception that a disc/puck was used in all Canadian games from 1875 and onwards. So yes, the Canadians established the disc/puck, but it was used in England long before Canada. That was my only point.

I did not conduct extensive research on that one, but the Wikipedia article in question for once provides several sources with some detailed information. For example, the Bandy Championship is said to have featured seven participants, as opposed to the LIHG tournaments you refer to (January 1913: four participants, February 1913: five participants).

I know that the 1913 European Bandy Championships is not an important point in this context, but I just thought that the record should be straightened out once and for all. It is not my intention to be difficult here, but have you even looked at the so called sources ?

There are six of them in total (associated to the Wikipedia article).

Source 1 - An article from February 14, 2013 without a source

Source 2 - A Swedish geocities website without a source

Source 3 - A Russian article from September 30, 2011 citing a geocities website (see Source 4)

Source 4 - A Bandy World Map on a Geocities site without a source

Source 5 - An article from January 5, 2014 on the worldbandy site without a source

Source 6 - A Swedish bandy site without a source

Let us just agree to disagree that we probably view what is "detailed information" differently. All I can say is that there was no European Bandy Championship in 1913, it is as simple as that.

Anyway, keep up the good work Theokritos, it is always nice to see ambitious hockey fans like you.

 

[Theokritos]

I also would like to point out that a ball was used frequently in ice hockey games around Canada up until the mid 1880s. It is a common misconception that a disc/puck was used in all Canadian games from 1875 and onwards. So yes, the Canadians established the disc/puck, but it was used in England long before Canada. That was my only point.

True enough and your point stands. That the ball was still used in Canadian ice hockey early on has BTW been mentioned in another thread recently.

I just thought that the record should be straightened out once and for all. It is not my intention to be difficult here, but have you even looked at the so called sources ?

You're not being difficult, I appreciate the (critical) input.

There are six of them in total (associated to the Wikipedia article)....

It's true there are no primary (contemporary) sources given, but I have a hard time believing that the detailed claims made (seven countries participated: Great Britain/England, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Italy; two countries turned the invitation down because they were not d'accord with the proposed rules: Sweden and Russia; the tournament was won by Great Britain/England) should simply be made up.

Let us just agree to disagree that we probably view what is "detailed information" differently. All I can say is that there was no European Bandy Championship in 1913, it is as simple as that.

It's not a very satisfying state if we agree to disagree, but I would need more persuading here.

Anyway, keep up the good work Theokritos, it is always nice to see ambitious hockey fans like you.

Thanks. Nice to see someone from the forums at internationalhockey.net chime in, especially since I hope to post some more about the early times in the nearer future.

 

[Theokritos]

Key element in signing Canadians was the introduction of an NHL Salary Cap at the start of the 1932-33 season combined with roster réductions. This had a ripple effect in minor and senior hockey as players were displaced, minor and senior teams folded or reduced rosters so players played below their previous level.

That's an interesting and plausible suggestion, I'm gonna have to take a look at your thread about that topic again.

Also of interest (and probably to be seen in this context): The rise and fall of the Maritime Senior Hockey League from 1932-1935 with its talent pool of quality players from all over Canada. It's going to play a role when I get to the 1935 off-season.

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

It's true there are no primary (contemporary) sources given, but I have a hard time believing that the detailed claims made (seven countries participated: Great Britain/England, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Italy; two countries turned the invitation down because they were not d'accord with the proposed rules: Sweden and Russia; the tournament was won by Great Britain/England) should simply be made up.

I believe that this erroneous information originally comes from a gentleman by the name of Åke Dunér, a Swedish bandy historian who mentioned this in a book from the 1970s. Unfortunately there were quite a few errors throughout that section, one of them being the 1913 info.

It's not a very satisfying state if we agree to disagree, but I would need more persuading here.

I of course can't show you a contemporary source that says "there was no European Bandy Championship held in 1913" as an answer to a book from the 1970s. I have personally gone through local libraries in the Graubünden area in and around Davos, and believe me, if a European Bandy Championship had been held there, the local newspapers would have written about it. They wrote a lot when international ice hockey teams came to Davos, St.Moritz or any other nearby venue.

Nothing was mentioned about it. You also have to ask yourself why there are no results available, and why there are no contemporary sources (newspapers, photos, etc,etc). There is plenty of information available on early European Championships (Ice Hockey), but magically enough nothing about this phantom tournament.

Where did Mr.Dunér get his information from ? who knows ?
As I said, I will not be able to convince you because it is much more difficult, almost impossible to debunk a myth about something that allegedly took place.
To understand the incorrectness of the statement one has to do extensive research on the subject, which I have.

 

[Theokritos]

I of course can't show you a contemporary source that says "there was no European Bandy Championship held in 1913" as an answer to a book from the 1970s.

That's understood.

As I said, I will not be able to convince you because it is much more difficult, almost impossible to debunk a myth about something that allegedly took place.

I'm not entirely unfamiliar with the issue you bring up here, since I happen to study Ancient History where this is something of a frequent phenomenon. So please don't prematurely rule out that I am ready to listen to you and willing to debunk myths. I just haven't done the serious research you have obviously done on the matter at hand:

I have personally gone through local libraries in the Graubünden area in and around Davos, and believe me, if a European Bandy Championship had been held there, the local newspapers would have written about it. They wrote a lot when international ice hockey teams came to Davos, St.Moritz or any other nearby venue.

I concede that this is strong evidence that would be sufficient to convince me if not for the detailed information I have already cited. It's hard to see how that amount of info could have originated from misunderstanding if we don't want to assume a plain invention (as in intentional fabrication).

You also have to ask yourself why there are no results available, and why there are no contemporary sources (newspapers, photos, etc,etc). There is plenty of information available on early European Championships (Ice Hockey), but magically enough nothing about this phantom tournament.

The following photograph allegedly shows the English team at the 1913 Bandy Championship:

I believe that this erroneous information originally comes from a gentleman by the name of Åke Dunér, a Swedish bandy historian who mentioned this in a book from the 1970s. Unfortunately there were quite a few errors throughout that section, one of them being the 1913 info.

Are all of the information I have referred to included in that book by Dunér?

 

[Killion]

^^^ Interesting. Bit of a mystery about this "Phantom Tournament". A quick search and ya, several hits on wiki etc, purportedly took place, happened, but no source material. Nothing to back the claim up. Not even contemporaneous newspaper reports.... Seems weve entered into the realms of possible revisionism, ergodic history & literature... not even copious footnotes as is my wont when messing around in wiki absent any Moderation or peer review... logging in and altering entire pages... referencing books & articles that were never written, people that never existed, films that were never made & speeches never delivered.... Links to nowhere, ERROR 503... though here I must confess entirely innocent... not responsible for this one..... carry on....

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

The following photograph allegedly shows the English team at the 1913 Bandy Championship:

That photograph was taken between January 5 and 7, 1891 when Bury Fen Bandy Club introduced the game in Holland.
The photo is taken in either Haarlem (Jan.5) or Amsterdam (Jan.6-7). You can clearly see that it is not Davos.
Similar pictures were published in Wintersport [1893], by Pim Mulier (one of the Dutch players). http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/muli004wint01_01/muli004wint01_01_0029.php

Are all of the information I have referred to included in that book by Dunér?

Yes I believe so.

 

[Theokritos]

That photograph was taken between January 5 and 7, 1891 when Bury Fen Bandy Club introduced the game in Holland.

Thanks for pointing that out. A classic example of copy & paste in this case.

Yes I believe so.

Hard to explain how he could've come up with such, well, nonsense if you are right. Have you read the book?

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

Hard to explain how he could've come up with such, well, nonsense if you are right. Have you read the book?

I don't have the original book, but I do have a copy of the part where Mr.Dunér talks about the bandy history in each bandy playing country.
That is where the info about the 1913 tournament is mentioned.

Personally I believe that he took this information from an older German or French speaking book, but misunderstood what it said, and his misinterpretation led to this confusion. This of course is only speculation from my side.

In any case. At this point, if anyone continue to claim that there was a European Bandy Championship in 1913, they better produce some of the following:

- Game results
- Rosters
- Pictures
- Exact dates

The game results and rosters of course supported by contemporary newspaper articles. Until then it will remain as an honest mistake never corrected.

 

[Theokritos]

...

Okay. I'm willing to attach a question mark to the 1913 tournament. It's really not the topic of this thread though.

Thanks for the input again!