Post-Game Talk: Hitch puts Koalas on the endangered species list

[RegDunlop]

@Drivesaitl
Sorry I didn't really answer what you asked about!

The one post specific to you that I was referring to, was one where you talked about our board crapping on Talbot but not about Dubnyk.

 

[Panda Bear]

It’s a play that Nuge probably makes 10 times a game. But it is rare to see an Oilers Dman make it.

Larsson is the only defenceman we have who does that kind of pass consistently.

His awareness in tight spaces is why I think he still has untapped potential.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Well... first of all I probably reply to posts that are already responded to and discussed so I apologize about that. I often watch the game PVRd as I did then look at threads later.
Just responding to some of your posts, not trying to direct any ill intent.

I took offence to some posts where you continue to defend Talbot consistantly even though the majority of posters see the last years of his play differently. Then when you add in your opinion about Dubnyks play, which is totally fine to have, I feel that you are using your personal preferences as an agenda.
I find a lot of insight in your posts. But I also find a lot of denial and cheerleading when it dosent seem appropriate.

I can state a few facts here that I would be surprised if at least 70% of posters did not agree with.
- Leon Draisaitl has had some very disinterested, poor effort games, even while obtaining points.
- Cam Talbot has not played like a number 1 upper echelon tender for over a season. Like your reference to small sample sizes, a few good games don't keep posters from feeling uncomfortable in the net. He needs to instill our confidence in us again.
- Coaching was a huge issue with this team. Debating whether our GM is good or bad is moot and dosent change that our coaching sucked for whatever reason since 16-17. It was exposed.
What grinded me up tonight is that posters seem to always take a side over things. Again, my responses were to a few posters, I don't mean to single you out. But I can't understand why everyone can't just state their opinion on players good and bad, based on their current play, not how they feel about them.

And I do once again apologize for responding late in a thread. I should no better. I didn't mean to fire people up but I think I did! Sorry about that!

I don't know, I think you are not following in some way. People here chronically, negatively, OVERSTATE the play of the current players here. The reality is Chia has left us with a poor lineup severely lacking depth and the players actually try on the ice but are often limited. So I'll defend, and go to the well for the players here that have brung it, that care, that try to do their best and that are the core here. I have no idea how that is strange. I don't go to work and look at the best employees and single them out for criticism either. Like what is constantly found on this board.

As I''ve stated many times coming into this season these were the players I will go to the wall for;

McD, Drai, Larsson, Talbot, These are the players that have been leaders on this team. That have all been the best players on this team at different times. They have EARNED my trust.

Players that are entering that category for me or that have been there are Klef, Nuge, Nurse.

In anycase my thought process does not need to conform to yours, I know you're not expecting that. We think differently, without which discussion might be more boring.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Readers digest version. The other day this convo actually happened with another poster.

Poster: Drai isn't doing enough, f*** him, he needs to do so much more

Me: He's doing a lot.

Poster: but he's really good, he should be moving more results, that's why I criticize him so much.

Me; So you inordinately critique the player because the player is inordinately good?


This was expectedly met with abject silence. Because to respond in the affirmative would seem silly.

 

[Drivesaitl]

@Drivesaitl
Sorry I didn't really answer what you asked about!

The one post specific to you that I was referring to, was one where you talked about our board crapping on Talbot but not about Dubnyk.

I was simply trying to add perspective on what Terrible goaltending looks like. It looked like Dubnyk last night. It really is clear what I'm saying.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It’s a play that Nuge probably makes 10 times a game. But it is rare to see an Oilers Dman make it.

Indeed he does. Drai and Nuge run more transition on this club than the D do. They make the critical up ice passes. Often one touch, so deft hardly noticed, that it just seems like flow Both very adept at it. These are the only two players on the team that can really work transition with McD. It doesn't get a lot of notice, but partly due to the telecasts being poor they don't point it out either.

Anybody expecting Remenda or Quinn to break a play down very well will be disappointed. Better to watch plays multiple times yourself.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Did you not read the GDT? Pretty sure our board let it be known what they thought of Dubnyks game.

And while crapping on a top tier goalie, what's your take on Draisaitl's first goal? Great pass, great snipe, no? Should he be blamed for that?

I pretty much refuse to read GDT's anymore. Why would I. These are nonstop reactions in the moment. I can do that enough staring at the TV. I like to get impressions independently, and then compare AFTER game.

The Draisaitl first goal? Dubs was cheating out. Clearly not realizing Leon is astute enough to see that, just shift and hold and then snipe into an opening. If Drai simply one times that like so many would do It may not find twine. In real time DRai reads that goalie is out, just skates forward briefly with puck, slots it home. Easy as pie with the goalie out. Drai could make a living on goalies cheating on that play.

Dubs was shaking his head already at that one. He got schooled by a 23yr old. OWNED as they say in slapshot.

I'm not objective on Dubs ftr. Don't like the goalie, had a hard time getting over his worst moments. Let me know when Talbs starts letting in lobs from center ice.

But I'm not saying Dubs is terrible, I'm saying he sometimes is. I don't have any allegiance to the player so I can say that..hehe

 

[RegDunlop]

@Drivesaitl
I will continuing discussion tomorrow if ok. Getting late for me. Thanks for convo

 

[noice]

I still say rid Cagguila, Benning

 

[LaGu]

Eh. $4.00.

I was on my phone!

Gotta get some cred for that!

$4, I'll take it, it's a beer in the pub next door.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Let me know when Talbs starts letting in lobs from center ice.

You're welcome.

 

[Risingwind]

Okay, so all of you sweet scoundrels made me finally buy the NHL package for this season (the team playing better was also involved). Went back and looked at the game... I’m now baffled by the idea of a Chiasson-Pulju swap being floated around. Both of them played a strong game, so they should stay exactly where they are. Both of them stayed near the action and could have scored on their own lines with some puck luck, just because it ended up happening during a line shift doesn’t mean we should fire up the blender. Relax, take a deep breath and have a glass of water. This is not the McLellan era anymore. Look at the 95%, not at the 5%.

The team looks so much more alive with defensive structure in place. I saw a couple players cheating for offence here and there, but it’s nothing like in the early and last seasons. The first goal against could be attributed to Lucic, but he also had to cover the opposing defenders, had the pass went to them instead. Both of the Oilers’ D had collapsed prematurely, which left a disproportionately large sized area for Lucic to cover. It looked to me like a case of miscommunication between the whole line. They’ll get the balance of the turtling and counterattack portions of the trap down in time. The second GA was just something that happens and you can’t reliably prevent these types of redirection plays. I was happy with Talbot this game, and the second star was warranted.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You're welcome.

heh, Oct 2016. Wow, I don't think I watched that game or knew that play had occurred, thanks.

 

[McDNicks17]

Readers digest version. The other day this convo actually happened with another poster.

Poster: Drai isn't doing enough, **** him, he needs to do so much more

Me: He's doing a lot.

Poster: but he's really good, he should be moving more results, that's why I criticize him so much.

Me; So you inordinately critique the player because the player is inordinately good?


This was expectedly met with abject silence. Because to respond in the affirmative would seem silly.

Not sure why you think that's illogical.

If there's something wrong with my car and it can only go 70 km/h, I don't think it's fine because it's faster than a horse and buggy. I wonder why it isn't going it's usual top speed.

 

[OilerTyler]

heh, Oct 2016. Wow, I don't think I watched that game or knew that play had occurred, thanks.

If I remember correctly that was like 3 days before he and his wife had their twins. The immediate turnaround after that game is why people started calling him "dadbot".

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not sure why you think that's illogical.

If there's something wrong with my car and it can only go 70 km/h, I don't think it's fine because it's faster than a horse and buggy. I wonder why it isn't going it's usual top speed.

You should stop buying Ford.

Its simple. I've been a supervisor. I crave employees who are excellent, who can work independently, make decisions, have experience. Those are the employees that need less attention, but get praise, and get benefit of doubt in the unlikely occasion that something goes wrong. Thus I don't critique those that are inordinately good. I offer support and positive feedback that empowers their continued good work. There may be suggestions, but with a view to those employees knowing what they are doing and having input.

The employees that are not as skilled require much more feedback, supervsision, make errors, ill advised decisions, and get varied reactions.

Hitch said something lately about Nuge that he plays a good 200 ft game and requires little coaching. Those aren't just words. Those are the players that get more latitude, more chances, toi, and are less likely to get it yanked. Because their performance earns trust. How do people not see this.

Basically any pro sports coach operates with the same trust system I'm evoking. Virtually every coach has "their guys" that they go to the wall with and trust.

Draisaitls minutes have increased by 4:35/game under Hitch. You think he trusts him?

 

[Drivesaitl]

If I remember correctly that was like 3 days before he and his wife had their twins. The immediate turnaround after that game is why people started calling him "dadbot".

Thanks.

Wasn't around here then. I never understood the dadbot thing, not totally sure I do now. One of those weird things that if you're not participating in a thread you don't get it. Same thing is I never understood the Nuge "Hiss, hiss, that's my puck" meme.

 

[Missing smitty]

I pretty much refuse to read GDT's anymore. Why would I. These are nonstop reactions in the moment. I can do that enough staring at the TV. I like to get impressions independently, and then compare AFTER game.

The Draisaitl first goal? Dubs was cheating out. Clearly not realizing Leon is astute enough to see that, just shift and hold and then snipe into an opening. If Drai simply one times that like so many would do It may not find twine. In real time DRai reads that goalie is out, just skates forward briefly with puck, slots it home. Easy as pie with the goalie out. Drai could make a living on goalies cheating on that play.

Dubs was shaking his head already at that one. He got schooled by a 23yr old. OWNED as they say in slapshot.

I'm not objective on Dubs ftr. Don't like the goalie, had a hard time getting over his worst moments. Let me know when Talbs starts letting in lobs from center ice.

But I'm not saying Dubs is terrible, I'm saying he sometimes is. I don't have any allegiance to the player so I can say that..hehe

As much as people go overboard on Drai's problem, you go overboard on how good he is. I wholeheartedly believe that he is an amazing hockey player, but you can't deny he takes shifts and even periods off. He really needs to work on his defensive game (which I'm sure will come playing under Hitch). So as much as people need to simmer down with the hate, I think a normal every day goal is getting a little overblown.

 

[Drivesaitl]

As much as people go overboard on Drai's problem, you go overboard on how good he is. I wholeheartedly believe that he is an amazing hockey player, but you can't deny he takes shifts and even periods off. He really needs to work on his defensive game (which I'm sure will come playing under Hitch). So as much as people need to simmer down with the hate, I think a normal every day goal is getting a little overblown.

Do you consider that what I post about Draisaitl does not occur in a vacuum. i.e. its a reaction to a board that is inordinately critical of the player?

I shouldn't react, either, but its the milieu here in which I post. By taking complete sabbaticals from participating in GDT's now it makes it easier to tune out the overly negative statements about Drai or other players.

I tend to critique the players that actually contribute very little, like Lucic, Spooner, Benning. If I'm overtly negative about a player its because they are consistently being bad.


But this is part of the chasm of understanding that goes on between coaches and fans. Fans will often be frustrated about why a coach is sticking with a certain player. "They've been playing badly for weeks" or something like that. But coaches are more inclined to wait out the eb and flow and know the good player will eventually yield positive results.

Another example is this. Impatient people can sometimes have more difficulty with investments. Soon as a stock is going down they want to ditch it. The same investors tend to buy high thinking in present tense only. The savvy investors look at performance in a longer time frame, trust those stocks more based on established performance, and are more inclined to ride out strorms with those stocks.

Thus blue chip stocks are still considered blue chips in down turns. They aren't cast off like junk bonds.

 

[McDNicks17]

You should stop buying Ford.

Its simple. I've been a supervisor. I crave employees who are excellent, who can work independently, make decisions, have experience. Those are the employees that need less attention, but get praise, and get benefit of doubt in the unlikely occasion that something goes wrong. Thus I don't critique those that are inordinately good. I offer support and positive feedback that empowers their continued good work. There may be suggestions, but with a view to those employees knowing what they are doing and having input.

The employees that are not as skilled require much more feedback, supervsision, make errors, ill advised decisions, and get varied reactions.

Hitch said something lately about Nuge that he plays a good 200 ft game and requires little coaching. Those aren't just words. Those are the players that get more latitude, more chances, toi, and are less likely to get it yanked. Because their performance earns trust. How do people not see this.

Basically any pro sports coach operates with the same trust system I'm evoking. Virtually every coach has "their guys" that they go to the wall with and trust.

Draisaitls minutes have increased by 4:35/game under Hitch. You think he trusts him?

The same Hitch said that if he's in your ear all the time, it's because he believes in you and thinks you have more to give.

In a competitive setting like hockey, it doesn't really make any sense to just be content with being good. The expectation is a player is playing to his fullest capability.

 

[Missing smitty]

Do you consider that what I post about Draisaitl does not occur in a vacuum. i.e. its a reaction to a board that is inordinately critical of the player?

I shouldn't react, either, but its the milieu here in which I post. By taking complete sabbaticals from participating in GDT's now it makes it easier to tune out the overly negative statements about Drai or other players.

I tend to critique the players that actually contribute very little, like Lucic, Spooner, Benning. If I'm overtly negative about a player its because they are consistently being bad.


But this is part of the chasm of understanding that goes on between coaches and fans. Fans will often be frustrated about why a coach is sticking with a certain player. "They've been playing badly for weeks" or something like that. But coaches are more inclined to wait out the eb and flow and know the good player will eventually yield positive results.

Another example is this. Impatient people can sometimes have more difficulty with investments. Soon as a stock is going down they want to ditch it. The same investors tend to buy high thinking in present tense only. The savvy investors look at performance in a longer time frame, trust those stocks more based on established performance, and are more inclined to ride out strorms with those stocks.

Thus blue chip stocks are still considered blue chips in down turns. They don't become junk bonds.

I agree about some of the silly crap about Drai being garbage, people saying he is crap are obviously out to lunch. But you have to admit there are times he clearly isn't trying all that hard. When Hitch gets him playing 200 foot game him and Connor will be unstoppable and this silly "he's a boat anchor" will stop.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The same Hitch said that if he's in your ear all the time, it's because he believes in you and thinks you have more to give.

In a competitive setting like hockey, it doesn't really make any sense to just be content with being good. The expectation is a player is playing to his fullest capability.

Did he say that here or elsewhere. I didn't see the clip or context used. I did say above that with trusted staff you do offer feedback, suggestions, but also allowing the feedback from trusted employees. Good managers are not top down with people that know what they are doing. Sometimes that can disrupt optimal performance.

That reminds me of the classic Dilligence vs intelligence dichotomy;

Why Clever And Lazy Leaders Are More Efficient


Guess where Eakins fell?

 

[Drivesaitl]

I agree about some of the silly crap about Drai being garbage, people saying he is crap are obviously out to lunch. But you have to admit there are times he clearly isn't trying all that hard. When Hitch gets him playing 200 foot game him and Connor will be unstoppable and this silly "he's a boat anchor" will stop.

Oh it'll never stop. Less of a torrent of it, yes, but the comments continue. The laziness thing I just don't accept. Any manager knows an employee like a Draisaitl is a self starter. First thing you recognize it that they are self motivated and their engine runs fine. Like I said in another post Drai would be an example of a person whose very driven, who is very self critical, who is a perfectionist. You guide those people, help them attain their best through positive feedback, regard, respect, and trust.

Thus one of the strangest, even stupid comments that McLellan made is the "Drai only skates for himself" comment. It was perceived as critical, even by the media, and it came out of the blue, even after a good game, and its the kind of feedback that is ineffective and more likely to cause confusion, misinterpretation, and less likely to be helpful.

 

[McDNicks17]

Did he say that here or elsewhere. I didn't see the clip or context used. I did say above that with trusted staff you do offer feedback, suggestions, but also allowing the feedback from trusted employees. Good managers are not top down with people that know what they are doing. Sometimes that can disrupt optimal performance.

That reminds me of the classic Dilligence vs intelligence dichotomy;

Why Clever And Lazy Leaders Are More Efficient


Guess where Eakins fell?

It was in one of his first interviews here.

Might have been from the question about how you he's learned how to talk to the new generation of players, but I don't remember exactly.

 

[Missing smitty]

Oh it'll never stop. Less of a torrent of it, yes, but the comments continue. The laziness thing I just don't accept. Any manager knows an employee like a Draisaitl is a self starter. First thing you recognize it that they are self motivated and their engine runs fine. Like I said in another post Drai would be an example of a person whose very driven, who is very self critical, who is a perfectionist. You guide those people, help them attain their best through positive feedback, regard, respect, and trust.

Thus one of the strangest, even stupid comments that McLellan made is the "Drai only skates for himself" comment. It was perceived as critical, even by the media, and it came out of the blue, even after a good game, and its the kind of feedback that is ineffective and more likely to cause confusion, misinterpretation, and less likely to be helpful.

You are probably right.

I agree he's clearly a perfectionist, so that's why I think Hitch will bring the most out of him. Once he's using that big body on both sides of the puck, he'll start seeing results, which I think will motivate him more.