HFVan Hockey League 2018-19

[Intoewsables]

I still don't understand the complaints on this. The rules were spelled out from the start. If we're limiting teams to 90 or 100 goalie games or whatever, that should be enough of a nerf.

A lot of good points being made here but I'm really curious to see what effect this has on goalie scoring. It hadn't even occurred to me that this would happen (was thinking more on a team-by-team basis) but yeah, it seems pretty obvious that it would have a nerfing effect on individual goalie scoring as well once you lay it out like that. Maybe not for teams with bad backups who don't play often, but you'd think there would be too much risk there for a contender in the event that their starter gets injured. Hopefully that would be enough of a deterrent to prevent that from being a loophole or whatever.

 

[Maticus]

A lot of good points being made here but I'm really curious to see what effect this has on goalie scoring. It hadn't even occurred to me that this would happen (was thinking more on a team-by-team basis) but yeah, it seems pretty obvious that it would have a nerfing effect on individual goalie scoring as well once you lay it out like that. Maybe not for teams with bad backups who don't play often, but you'd think there would be too much risk there for a contender in the event that their starter gets injured. Hopefully that would be enough of a deterrent to prevent that from being a loophole or whatever.

If goalies aren't going to get nerfed, the value of the goalies in this league should be reflected in their contracts which is fair if people want that.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

If goalies aren't going to get nerfed, the value of the goalies in this league should be reflected in their contracts which is fair if people want that.

How advanced is Weyl's operation? I always just send him IRL comparables for contracts. Do we know what players past stats are in HFVHL? I would agree that in an ideal world contracts should mirror HFVHL value, but that sounds like a lot of work.

 

[Maticus]

How advanced is Weyl's operation? I always just send him IRL comparables for contracts. Do we know what players past stats are in HFVHL? I would agree that in an ideal world contracts should mirror HFVHL value, but that sounds like a lot of work.

I believe the hfvhl value and real life value of forwards and defensemen are pretty similar, which makes it easy to use comparables. I would rather just use real life comparasions which would make it way easier for both parties. There is a couple goalies that are still RFA at the end of season due to uncertainty of how much they should get due to their hfvhl value.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

If goalies aren't going to get nerfed, the value of the goalies in this league should be reflected in their contracts which is fair if people want that.

Why though?

If that’s the case then I want a reduction in the salaries of my forwards and D that I negotiated based on their NHL salaries, because they’re contributing less points wise than their counterparts.

It’s far easier and less contentious to base it on the NHL salaries with a bit of wiggle room for good negotiating on both sides.

Again, top goalies will make what top goalies do IRL, and so will skaters.

In the long run this seems like an easier way to handle it, IMO.

Slight tweaks to scoring over time can balance it out.

And, to repeat my earlier point, a win is the most important stat—so it should be reflected in the scoring.

 

[Intoewsables]

If goalies aren't going to get nerfed, the value of the goalies in this league should be reflected in their contracts which is fair if people want that.

I would assume the free market would handle that on its own to some degree. Everyone knows goalies are incredibly valuable with the scoring structure as it is, so any starting goalie that hits UFA is likely to have some massive offers thrown their way. Unfortunately, we don't really have that precedent established yet for any extension talks for goalies right now. That's the part that worries me -- and those of you who have messaged me about this -- the most. I like that we can rely on NHL contract comparables to make negotiations in this league easier, but with goalie value being so out of whack compared to the NHL, it doesn't really seem appropriate (to me, at least) to apply that to goalies as well.

I don't know, maybe the Carey Price contract can be the standard for great starters in this league. It's just that relative to the NHL, there are a lot more of these "great goaltenders" in this league because of how valuable they are. As long as we're okay with more of those types of contracts for goalies rather than going full-on 8x$13M+ deals for the best goalies, that could be a decent trade-off?

 

[Maticus]

Why though?

If that’s the case then I want a reduction in the salaries of my forwards and D that I negotiated based on their NHL salaries, because they’re contributing less points wise than their counterparts.

It’s far easier and less contentious to base it on the NHL salaries with a bit of wiggle room for good negotiating on both sides.

Again, top goalies will make what top goalies do IRL, and so will skaters.

In the long run this seems like an easier way to handle it, IMO.

Slight tweaks to scoring over time can balance it out.

And, to repeat my earlier point, a win is the most important stat—so it should be reflected in the scoring.

Hellebuyck had 550 points last year, you think its fair to sign him for 6M for 6 years (real life contract) in HFVHL? while McDavid who had 150 points less and signed at 12.5M? I just find there is a big difference between the two. I understand that a win is a important stat as it shows in their HFVHL value which should be reflected in their contract.

If the scoring of forwards and defensemen go up, I'm okay with that if goalies scoring isn't going down.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

Hellebuyck had 550 points last year, you think its fair to sign him for 6M for 6 years (real life contract) in HFVHL? while McDavid who had 150 points less and signed at 12.5M? I just find there is a big difference between the two. I understand that a win is a important stat as it shows in their HFVHL value which should be reflected in their contract.

If the scoring of forwards and defensemen go up, I'm okay with that if goalies scoring isn't going down.

Then we need to raise the salary cap to reflect that, rather than mimicking the NHL.

I’ve (and most others I’d imagine) negotiated the contracts of my skaters based on NHL comparables—if we’re inflating goalie salaries 35-50% higher then we need to adjust the cap a proportional amount.

 

[LaVar]

Draft was literally 1 year ago, should've done research and selected accordingly. Not complain after the fact and ask for the entire structure of the league to change one year after GM's picked for 30+ rounds..

Hell, if I had known this was going to be an issue I probably would've just drafted or traded for a goalie with an already long-term contract in place. Only people getting f***ed are those with young goalies coming off of good seasons.

Also, if there's a lot of goalies putting up monster points, how is that unfair? Don't a lot of teams therefore have that advantage of having a goalie that is one of the higher producing players in the league? If there were one or two examples, sure, but goalies in general just put up a lot more points... not really "unfair" if everyone gets that benefit. Either sign or trade for one or quit crying.

 

[Maticus]

Draft was literally 1 year ago, should've done research and selected accordingly. Not complain after the fact and ask for the entire structure of the league to change one year after GM's picked for 30+ rounds..

Hell, if I had known this was going to be an issue I probably would've just drafted or traded for a goalie with an already long-term contract in place. Only people getting ****ed are those with young goalies coming off of good seasons.

Also, if there's a lot of goalies putting up monster points, how is that unfair? Don't a lot of teams therefore have that advantage of having a goalie that is one of the higher producing players in the league? If there were one or two examples, sure, but goalies in general just put up a lot more points... not really "unfair" if everyone gets that benefit. Either sign or trade for one or quit crying.

It's not just a regular season thing, you are ignoring the fact that having a goalie on a playoff team in real life wins you the playoffs especially when it gets to the last couple rounds. There's clearly a issue as other people bringing up it, not just me.

There's also the fact that the new GMs inherit not so great teams with no goalie depth, how is it fair to them that they gave to trade valuable assets for a average goaltender or trade away assets for draft picks so they can draft a goalie (drafting goalies is always a crap shoot).

I also understand that I screwed up at my draft and made adjustments to my team to resolve that. If people want to make the scoring permanent or have actual real life contracts for goalies that's fine, I will shut up.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

If it happens two years in a row that the SC champ goalie is the HFVHL champ then I'll grant that would be a problem. The odds of that should be low though.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Correlating Specific league pts structure, which was known from the very beginning, to contract values makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[LaVar]

It's not just a regular season thing, you are ignoring the fact that having a goalie on a playoff team in real life wins you the playoffs especially when it gets to the last couple rounds. There's clearly a issue as other people bringing up it, not just me.

There's also the fact that the new GMs inherit not so great teams with no goalie depth, how is it fair to them that they gave to trade valuable assets for a average goaltender or trade away assets for draft picks so they can draft a goalie (drafting goalies is always a crap shoot).

I also understand that I screwed up at my draft and made adjustments to my team to resolve that. If people want to make the scoring permanent or have actual real life contracts for goalies that's fine, I will shut up.

Does that not apply to skaters too? Why should what team players play on real life impact the contract they get in this league? What if they get traded in real life to a garbage team? You shouldnt be punished for drafting or trading for players that will help you win in the playoffs...

And I also took over Boston starting round 2 I think, with no goaltender...I traded for Hellebuyck.

 

[LaVar]

Correlating Specific league pts structure, which was known from the very beginning, to contract values makes absolutely no sense to me.

Right?

Like the structure was known from the beginning! The fact that we're even considering changes is mindblowing.

Anybody should've been able to crunch the numbers and realize goalies are probably the most important position...

I'm in three other leagues with similar scoring rules and none of them have had any issues with contracts pertaining to goalies. Just people complaining at any chance they get.

 

[E D]

Just because it was something done from the very beginning doesn't mean it shouldn't be subject to a discussion or the potential of change. I personally think it's too broken and goalies carry teams far more than any other player on the roster, which should be reflected somehow in contracts and/or points.

But as I stated earlier, it wouldn't be great to implement something so quickly that would be unfair to the teams who properly adhered to the original rules and point structures. They spent assets or made draft picks based on those rules and this would impact their team. I would be upset as well if the league changed point structures on me. But that doesn't mean that contracts shouldn't be inflated for goalies. If they're the most important position in this league, it should be reflected somewhat.

Ultimately, doesn't matter to me. I participate in the league to chat with you guys and have fun. If we want to keep running things how it is, won't matter to me. (I have Schneider so I'm gonna suck for a while anyways no matter what) I think goalies will be a problem if we consistently see the goalie of the stanley cup winning team be on the HFVHL winner. If that happens, then I think changes will need to be made, otherwise the league will become pointless, as it won't matter about the rest of your team, only mostly your goalie.

 

[Havre]

If we change, and I got probably the weakest set of goalies in the league (meaning short term I would benefit the most from a change in scoring), I hope we make it gradual and in a step by step manner.

Personally I don´t see a problem with goalies being the most valuable players. In real life, on average, they are. Just a bit funny they are not often paid accordingly.

As for linking contract values to real life - that is a bit questionable in general. Should Chris Tanev be paid for how good he is or how many points he scores in our game? Quite clearly it should be adjusted to the latter in my opinion (obviously market dictates a lot as well - ref good old Jimmy Hayes).

 

[HankNDank]

New Jersey places Ty rattie on IR.
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...FjACegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw1Nwjk153k0fMRnyGQPJnrG

New Jersey recalls Brendan '2 PPG' Gaunce .

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

Vancouver places Brandon Sutter on IR and calls up Pontus “the SoCal tinder king” Aberg.

Canucks' Brandon Sutter 'out weeks' with upper-body injury - Sportsnet.ca

EDIT: *Åberg*

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

If we change, and I got probably the weakest set of goalies in the league (meaning short term I would benefit the most from a change in scoring), I hope we make it gradual and in a step by step manner.

Personally I don´t see a problem with goalies being the most valuable players. In real life, on average, they are. Just a bit funny they are not often paid accordingly.

As for linking contract values to real life - that is a bit questionable in general. Should Chris Tanev be paid for how good he is or how many points he scores in our game? Quite clearly it should be adjusted to the latter in my opinion (obviously market dictates a lot as well - ref good old Jimmy Hayes).

We’ve already linked salaries and the salary cap to real life.

We’ve grandfathered in contracts from the very beginning, and renegotiated skater contracts have referenced irl salaries.

If we’re inflating goalie salaries based on point contributions we need to increase the salary cap.

 

[Tryamkin]

send down Sam Steel and take Jesper Bratt off the IR as the injuries finally die down and Dallas can make a run for the cup...............

 

[Tryamkin]

TRADE:
To PHI: David Rittich
To TBL: Ian Scott + 2019 PHI 3rd

 

[donut]

TRADE:
To PHI: David Rittich
To TBL: Ian Scott + 2019 PHI 3rd

would like to activate Pekka Rinne, G off Injury Reserve

 

[LaVar]

damn we allowed to have 2 starters now?

 

[canucklax]

damn we allowed to have 2 starters now?

Dubnyk available

 

[donut]