HFeed - 3 to 5 NHL teams could file for bankruptcy (Speculation)

[Ernie]

Can you provide a source for that statement...

It's an estimate. I recall the NHL citing losses of $50m per year while they operated the franchise in 2009/2010. I suppose they could have inflated that number. They also kept the team on life support the previous season. When Glendale was subsidizing the franchise the following two years (while still under NHL control) the losses were likely still in the $50m range so that would be $25m per year. They also operated the team in the lockout shortened season of 2013, which I don't believe involved any subsidy from the city.

 

[HugoSimon]

A lot of owners have seen their other business operations take a major hit so may not be able to prop up their franchise.

Will that lead to bankruptcy? Highly unlikely. Even if every team loses an average $50m this year, that's only $1.5bn. That's less than 10% of the leagues overall valuation.

That's some faulty logic. The league is worth 15 billion on what is essentially a bubble. That isn't to say the teams were overvalued but their worth to society has decreased. 2 years with no regular seasons, 2 years with minimal attendance, 2 years where kids aren't playing hockey, and minor league games are dead.

I'd argue the true value of those teams is closer to 5-8 billion.

And yes the loss of personal fortunes is a big big reason things are gonna be so rough. Few people are gonna waste money on a sports franchise when there is greater uncertainty in the economy.

The only thing I see in their favor is there's no competition for arena space. Unlike with Atlanta no venue is pushing anyone out no matter what.

I don't think we'll see an expansion but I can imagine the league being absorbed by a handful of owners.

 

[Ernie]

That's some faulty logic. The league is worth 15 billion on what is essentially a bubble. That isn't to say the teams were overvalued but their worth to society has decreased. 2 years with no regular seasons, 2 years with minimal attendance, 2 years where kids aren't playing hockey, and minor league games are dead.

I'd argue the true value of those teams is closer to 5-8 billion.

And yes the loss of personal fortunes is a big big reason things are gonna be so rough. Few people are gonna waste money on a sports franchise when there is greater uncertainty in the economy.

The only thing I see in their favor is there's no competition for arena space. Unlike with Atlanta no venue is pushing anyone out no matter what.

I don't think we'll see an expansion but I can imagine the league being absorbed by a handful of owners.

Lemme know when you see NHL teams selling for 50 cents on the dollar.

No doubt that NHL teams are overvalued based on the fundamentals. For the most part they are basically vanity items. But the world isn't running out of billionaires who want toys. Covid has been very good for most billionaires.

 

[Acesolid]

Lemme know when you see NHL teams selling for 50 cents on the dollar.

No doubt that NHL teams are overvalued based on the fundamentals. For the most part they are basically vanity items. But the world isn't running out of billionaires who want toys. Covid has been very good for most billionaires.

Sure, but that's because thanks to John Maynard Keynes every government and Central Bank knew that they had to crank up to 11 the fiscal stimulus and quantitative easing (AKA use the "money printer go brrrrrr" strategy).

Unfortunately that is only a short term solution before things get weeeeeeiiiiirrrdddd.

Right now (thankfully) the deflationary pressure from the COVID-crisis and lockdowns and whatever... and the inflationary pressure from making the money printer go "brrrrrr" are balanced... but as people get vaccinated and the governments eventually have to (very carefully) take the training wheels off the economy... thing will very likely get weird.

Many sectors of the economy may not even survive to that point... nevermind once they have to stand on their own... and customers may only slowly return at first.

I fear a deflationary spiral at that point... or alternatively if the Governments fear that possibility and keep spending like crazy (unlikely in the US, but possible in Canada) inflation may become a problem.

Maybe I'm being negative, but I feel a lot of people dont realize how thankful we should be of the tireless work of the World's Central Banks and Governments preventing economic collapse in march.... but their careful balancing act wont get any easier over the next year.

Being a billionaire means little if the value of your assets and/or money go down the drain. Just ask a billionaire in Venezuela...

 

[Ernie]

Maybe I'm being negative, but I feel a lot of people dont realize how thankful we should be of the tireless work of the World's Central Banks and Governments preventing economic collapse in march.... but their careful balancing act wont get any easier over the next year.

Yup you're being negative. If things unfold as you describe the health of NHL franchises will be a tiny tiny footnote.

At this point the Dow is at record highs and wealthy people are wealthier than ever. So you're definitely an outlier in your prognostications.

 

[Acesolid]

Yup you're being negative. If things unfold as you describe the health of NHL franchises will be a tiny tiny footnote.

At this point the Dow is at record highs and wealthy people are wealthier than ever. So you're definitely an outlier in your prognostications.

I'm not saying the "everything falls apart" scenario is a likely one.

But not only is it possible, but the "the economy looks like crap for a while and there is a lot of WEIRD market/currency value fluctuation and significant market correction in the near future" scenario is quite likely in my opinion.

A lot of top stocks are highly inflated, just look at Tesla for exemple, it's clearly not worth as much as Toyota (TM), Volkswagen (VLKAF), GM (GM), Ford (F) and Fiat Chrysler (FCAU) COMBINED!!!

Right now with the quantitative easing and the good news and the fact the economy still hums along... the bull reigns supreme.

But when that gravy train has to stop... and the interest rates have to go up... and the small (and big) businesses barely holding on fall apart... and if the shellshocked customers dont quickly return to their pre-COVID habits and/or vaccination takes longer then usual... and or the inflation/deflation careful dance goes out of balance... the Bear is never far behind...

But, as always, that's just my 2 cents....

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Or $0.05 after upcoming inflation.....

 

[hockeyguy0022]

I'm not saying the "everything falls apart" scenario is a likely one.

But not only is it possible, but the "the economy looks like crap for a while and there is a lot of WEIRD market/currency value fluctuation and significant market correction in the near future" scenario is quite likely in my opinion.

A lot of top stocks are highly inflated, just look at Tesla for exemple, it's clearly not worth as much as Toyota (TM), Volkswagen (VLKAF), GM (GM), Ford (F) and Fiat Chrysler (FCAU) COMBINED!!!

Right now with the quantitative easing and the good news and the fact the economy still hums along... the bull reigns supreme.

But when that gravy train has to stop... and the interest rates have to go up... and the small (and big) businesses barely holding on fall apart... and if the shellshocked customers dont quickly return to their pre-COVID habits and/or vaccination takes longer then usual... and or the inflation/deflation careful dance goes out of balance... the Bear is never far behind...

But, as always, that's just my 2 cents....

There are a number of groups at war in the world currently, that's why nothing makes sense. It is overt if you have eyes to see, but most don't.

What's happening is the "letting down" of a false world, as slowly as possible and with minimal damage.

It will only get crazier for the next number of years.

 

[tarheelhockey]

There are a number of groups at war in the world currently, that's why nothing makes sense. It is overt if you have eyes to see, but most don't.

What's happening is the "letting down" of a false world, as slowly as possible and with minimal damage.

It will only get crazier for the next number of years.

I'd say there's enough crazy in that post to keep us going for at least 2021.

 

[HugoSimon]

Lemme know when you see NHL teams selling for 50 cents on the dollar.

No doubt that NHL teams are overvalued based on the fundamentals. For the most part they are basically vanity items. But the world isn't running out of billionaires who want toys. Covid has been very good for most billionaires.

Ironic you say 50 cents on the dollar because 50 million a team would be a complete disaster for the league.

The world isn't running out of a billionaires who want toys, but specific cities are running out of billionaire hockey fans who want to commit to a league that is fundamentally overvalued.

I know some people have this creative idea that there's an endless supply of billionaires, but there isn't actually that many in any one city. More relevantly there isn't all that many who are gonna put hockey above the big 3. Most of the current ownership groups got involved back when millionaires could buy teams. People seem to forget what it means when you start seeking out billion dollar franchise fees. This narrative that every US city has a room full of hockey mad billionaires is a joke. There's a handful of cities where this is true, and the NHL has bluffed their way into making this seem like it's the norm.

 

[Rpenny]

Hfeed is not that reliable

 

[Byrddog]

Ironic you say 50 cents on the dollar because 50 million a team would be a complete disaster for the league.

The world isn't running out of a billionaires who want toys, but specific cities are running out of billionaire hockey fans who want to commit to a league that is fundamentally overvalued.

I know some people have this creative idea that there's an endless supply of billionaires, but there isn't actually that many in any one city. More relevantly there isn't all that many who are gonna put hockey above the big 3. Most of the current ownership groups got involved back when millionaires could buy teams. People seem to forget what it means when you start seeking out billion dollar franchise fees. This narrative that every US city has a room full of hockey mad billionaires is a joke. There's a handful of cities where this is true, and the NHL has bluffed their way into making this seem like it's the norm.

In 2019 there are now a record of 607 billionaires in the U.S. That includes 14 of the world's 20 richest.
Canada is home to 41 billionaires. According to CEOWORLD Magazine's Canada Rich List Index for 2019, this year's total wealth of the top 10 richest Canadian hit a new record high of $96.4 billion USD.

It is a finite number, and of the roughly 650 billionaires exactly how many are motivated hockey fans? Well facts are not that many. In recent years a number of clubs have looked for new ownership Arizona being the most public example. Look at that team as the poster boy of organization progression established in 1972 in Winnipeg the franchise was rife with finical issues resulting it the team moving to Phoenix is 1996 it has had 8 owners or ownership groups and from 2009 to 2013 was owned by the league until another owner was found. In 2009 even the Great one gave up on the franchise.

Now consider the Habs who have had 12 owners or groups with only one over 20 years and that was Molson Brewing all of this despite winning the Cup 24 times thru the history of the league.

Now there are a few people willing to stick with ownership but that number is small, the pain threshold for owners losing money is real. And a case can be made that the league has more teams than potential owners. That is not to say there are not enough fans to support the current number of teams or more but that does not pay the bills. The league is filled with team relocations for economic reasons, cities failing some mutiple times to support a team.

Currently the bottom line is the government especially in the US is propping up the economy thru deficit spending. This is the reason the stock market has held up. Normally the market flexes on profits by individual stocks. The current reality even with Trillions of dollars spent there are millions of jobs that have just gone up in smoke and when the deficit spending ceases it will become apparent. There are segments of the economy that have all but been eliminated hospitality, travel being the biggest two.
Two-Thirds of Restaurant Employees Have Lost Their Jobs Due to COVID-19 | Food & Wine
(foodandwine.com)
50 Million Travel Industry Jobs May Be Lost, 50 Percent Of Travel Cut — Due To Coronavirus
(forbes.com)

These jobs are not coming back soon it is projected it will take up to 20 years. Now why is this important well this trickles thru the economy and while most of these people are receiving unemployment or have changed direction in there line of work these impact other areas of the economy. How many new planes is Boeing building now? How about the suppliers of material for the aircraft and auto industry?

How does this impact hockey? well there are only so many corporations willing to lay out the dollars that the owners depend on to keep there head above water. Corporate sponsorship is the difference in teams showing a profit. Contrary to popular belief no team can survive on Ticket sales and TV Revenue, it takes all three.

Now if your skeptical then just ask season ticket holders about the price increases that have been put out for next season. The Market i know most about is Nashville the season ticket prices published for this year have increased from 18 to 25%. And the number of renewals has tanked due to price and economic uncertainty.

We are fans and want the games to go on, but economically it is getting hard to see how they can. Teams can not lose from 15 to 60 million dollars for a 20-21 season. The 3 to 5 teams indicating possible bankruptcy is a drop in the bucket currently there are 18 members of the BOG in favor of canceling the season that came from Bettman on 12-5 and he is trying to sway them. If the vaccine is not available to 160 million until June or July as is being reported there is probably not going to be any hockey until Oct.

 

[hockeyguy0022]

In 2019 there are now a record of 607 billionaires in the U.S. That includes 14 of the world's 20 richest.
Canada is home to 41 billionaires. According to CEOWORLD Magazine's Canada Rich List Index for 2019, this year's total wealth of the top 10 richest Canadian hit a new record high of $96.4 billion USD.

It is a finite number, and of the roughly 650 billionaires exactly how many are motivated hockey fans? Well facts are not that many. In recent years a number of clubs have looked for new ownership Arizona being the most public example. Look at that team as the poster boy of organization progression established in 1972 in Winnipeg the franchise was rife with finical issues resulting it the team moving to Phoenix is 1996 it has had 8 owners or ownership groups and from 2009 to 2013 was owned by the league until another owner was found. In 2009 even the Great one gave up on the franchise.

Now consider the Habs who have had 12 owners or groups with only one over 20 years and that was Molson Brewing all of this despite winning the Cup 24 times thru the history of the league.

Now there are a few people willing to stick with ownership but that number is small, the pain threshold for owners losing money is real. And a case can be made that the league has more teams than potential owners. That is not to say there are not enough fans to support the current number of teams or more but that does not pay the bills. The league is filled with team relocations for economic reasons, cities failing some mutiple times to support a team.

Currently the bottom line is the government especially in the US is propping up the economy thru deficit spending. This is the reason the stock market has held up. Normally the market flexes on profits by individual stocks. The current reality even with Trillions of dollars spent there are millions of jobs that have just gone up in smoke and when the deficit spending ceases it will become apparent. There are segments of the economy that have all but been eliminated hospitality, travel being the biggest two.
Two-Thirds of Restaurant Employees Have Lost Their Jobs Due to COVID-19 | Food & Wine
(foodandwine.com)
50 Million Travel Industry Jobs May Be Lost, 50 Percent Of Travel Cut — Due To Coronavirus
(forbes.com)

These jobs are not coming back soon it is projected it will take up to 20 years. Now why is this important well this trickles thru the economy and while most of these people are receiving unemployment or have changed direction in there line of work these impact other areas of the economy. How many new planes is Boeing building now? How about the suppliers of material for the aircraft and auto industry?

How does this impact hockey? well there are only so many corporations willing to lay out the dollars that the owners depend on to keep there head above water. Corporate sponsorship is the difference in teams showing a profit. Contrary to popular belief no team can survive on Ticket sales and TV Revenue, it takes all three.

Now if your skeptical then just ask season ticket holders about the price increases that have been put out for next season. The Market i know most about is Nashville the season ticket prices published for this year have increased from 18 to 25%. And the number of renewals has tanked due to price and economic uncertainty.

We are fans and want the games to go on, but economically it is getting hard to see how they can. Teams can not lose from 15 to 60 million dollars for a 20-21 season. The 3 to 5 teams indicating possible bankruptcy is a drop in the bucket currently there are 18 members of the BOG in favor of canceling the season that came from Bettman on 12-5 and he is trying to sway them. If the vaccine is not available to 160 million until June or July as is being reported there is probably not going to be any hockey until Oct.

This will get wilder in 2021. Could very possibly war with china and/or a limited exchange.

The powers that be are going to pull the plug on the USD as a petrodollar and go back to gold standard with crypto/digital tracking.

American/North American dominance will be solidified once again, but it's a very rough and rocky road to get there. The markets are all entirely fake. Has nothing to do with value, everything to do with funny money and the ways that the powers that be want it.

It will be very hard times for us regular Joes, but the future is bright a ways out.

 

[voyageur]

In 2019 there are now a record of 607 billionaires in the U.S. That includes 14 of the world's 20 richest.
Canada is home to 41 billionaires. According to CEOWORLD Magazine's Canada Rich List Index for 2019, this year's total wealth of the top 10 richest Canadian hit a new record high of $96.4 billion USD.

It is a finite number, and of the roughly 650 billionaires exactly how many are motivated hockey fans? Well facts are not that many. In recent years a number of clubs have looked for new ownership Arizona being the most public example. Look at that team as the poster boy of organization progression established in 1972 in Winnipeg the franchise was rife with finical issues resulting it the team moving to Phoenix is 1996 it has had 8 owners or ownership groups and from 2009 to 2013 was owned by the league until another owner was found. In 2009 even the Great one gave up on the franchise.

Now consider the Habs who have had 12 owners or groups with only one over 20 years and that was Molson Brewing all of this despite winning the Cup 24 times thru the history of the league.

Now there are a few people willing to stick with ownership but that number is small, the pain threshold for owners losing money is real. And a case can be made that the league has more teams than potential owners. That is not to say there are not enough fans to support the current number of teams or more but that does not pay the bills. The league is filled with team relocations for economic reasons, cities failing some mutiple times to support a team.

Currently the bottom line is the government especially in the US is propping up the economy thru deficit spending. This is the reason the stock market has held up. Normally the market flexes on profits by individual stocks. The current reality even with Trillions of dollars spent there are millions of jobs that have just gone up in smoke and when the deficit spending ceases it will become apparent. There are segments of the economy that have all but been eliminated hospitality, travel being the biggest two.
Two-Thirds of Restaurant Employees Have Lost Their Jobs Due to COVID-19 | Food & Wine
(foodandwine.com)
50 Million Travel Industry Jobs May Be Lost, 50 Percent Of Travel Cut — Due To Coronavirus
(forbes.com)

These jobs are not coming back soon it is projected it will take up to 20 years. Now why is this important well this trickles thru the economy and while most of these people are receiving unemployment or have changed direction in there line of work these impact other areas of the economy. How many new planes is Boeing building now? How about the suppliers of material for the aircraft and auto industry?

How does this impact hockey? well there are only so many corporations willing to lay out the dollars that the owners depend on to keep there head above water. Corporate sponsorship is the difference in teams showing a profit. Contrary to popular belief no team can survive on Ticket sales and TV Revenue, it takes all three.

Now if your skeptical then just ask season ticket holders about the price increases that have been put out for next season. The Market i know most about is Nashville the season ticket prices published for this year have increased from 18 to 25%. And the number of renewals has tanked due to price and economic uncertainty.

We are fans and want the games to go on, but economically it is getting hard to see how they can. Teams can not lose from 15 to 60 million dollars for a 20-21 season. The 3 to 5 teams indicating possible bankruptcy is a drop in the bucket currently there are 18 members of the BOG in favor of canceling the season that came from Bettman on 12-5 and he is trying to sway them. If the vaccine is not available to 160 million until June or July as is being reported there is probably not going to be any hockey until Oct.

The big players like AEG, and Delaware North are going to feel the pinch. And revenue sharing is going to be a hotter topic than ever, if that is the case. Some of the small fish might cut bait. Contraction at this point would be better than expansion as the pie would be larger for the owners, with that US broadcasting contract coming up.

Advertising revenues are sure to be down, as bankruptcy hasn't reached its full potential yet, with stimulus.

I noticed Nashville shed a lot of salary this offseason, they seemed prepared for a downturn. Some other owners seem more invested, especially north of the border. I have been trying to get a list of local TV contracts, as the revenue streams are thinner this year, and I think that will be a big factor in operating costs, with no fans in the stands, and little revenue to share, outside of TV. The merchandising push may not garner enough money to go around either.

 

[Byrddog]

MLB sues insurance providers to cover billions in losses due to COVID-19 pandemic - CBSSports.com

Another issue the NHL is going to have to face now. Sports leagues carry insurance to prevent catastrophic losses and NHL is no different. MLB is now starting litigation for losses incurred and the insurance companies are refusing to pay. It is a real good chance that any coverage the NHL had is now going to be challenged as well. If the insurance companies prevail this league is in deep caca. Bettman has counted on that insurance money to cover the resumption in play last year and pay for the hubs and bubble. It was reported that the league spent 115 million dollars for this. Considering the TV revenue for the entire year from US was 200 mil and the Rogers contract of 435 per year the added cost of the playoffs without insurance reimbursement is a critical blow.

 

[Ernie]

Oh boy people really like to throw around numbers and act like they are a big deal without context.

The league as a whole is worth $15-$20bn.

$115m might seem like a lot of money but it's like someone who owns a $1m home complaining about shelling out $7k because their basement flooded and they need to do some (relatively) minor foundation repair work.

Sure, $7k will buy you a nice vacation and obviously you'd prefer to spend it on that, but there are costs to homeownership and if you can't afford an $7k bill you shouldn't be owning a home to start with.

Now if you threaten to burn down the entire home because of that bill as some NHL owners are saying, you truly are a whiner. If you don't have that cash on hand, any bank will be happy to loan you the money based on your equity. Unless of course you're already leveraged to the hilt, in which case it's not really the flooding repair that is your problem, is it?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Oh boy people really like to throw around numbers and act like they are a big deal without context.

The league as a whole is worth $15-$20bn.

$115m might seem like a lot of money but it's like someone who owns a $1m home complaining about shelling out $7k because their basement flooded and they need to do some (relatively) minor foundation repair work.

Sure, $7k will buy you a nice vacation and obviously you'd prefer to spend it on that, but there are costs to homeownership and if you can't afford an $7k bill you shouldn't be owning a home to start with.

Now if you threaten to burn down the entire home because of that bill as some NHL owners are saying, you truly are a whiner. If you don't have that cash on hand, any bank will be happy to loan you the money based on your equity. Unless of course you're already leveraged to the hilt, in which case it's not really the flooding repair that is your problem, is it?

Much like a house, a league’s value is just an abstract idea unless you’re willing to liquidate it.

What matters for the purpose of paying bills is cash flow. And at this moment, the NHL has very nearly zero cash flow.

The book value of their franchises doesn’t help in the slightest, unless those franchises are being used as collateral against loans.

A more fitting analogy would be carrying a chunk of mortgage on a $1M home, losing your job, and then getting hit with an unexpected $7K bill.

 

[Ernie]

Much like a house, a league’s value is just an abstract idea unless you’re willing to liquidate it.

What matters for the purpose of paying bills is cash flow. And at this moment, the NHL has very nearly zero cash flow.

The book value of their franchises doesn’t help in the slightest, unless those franchises are being used as collateral against loans.

A more fitting analogy would be carrying a chunk of mortgage on a $1M home, losing your job, and then getting hit with an unexpected $7K bill.

Except most wealthy people have seen their wealth increase during the pandemic so your analogy is not relevant.

And that $7k is still tiny with respect to the size of the asset no matter which way you look at it, even if you have to dip into debt for a short time to fund it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Except most wealthy people have seen their wealth increase during the pandemic so your analogy is not relevant.

NHL owners have not. This has been covered extensively in several threads. A bunch of NHL owners are cash-poor and some are facing bankruptcy.

And that $7k is still tiny with respect to the size of the asset no matter which way you look at it, even if you have to dip into debt for a short time to fund it.

“Tiny relative to the size of the asset” is irrelevant for someone in a cash crunch.

And we’re talking hundreds of millions in deficits. That’s not short-term debt.

 

[Ernie]

NHL owners have not. This has been covered extensively in several threads. A bunch of NHL owners are cash-poor and some are facing bankruptcy.



“Tiny relative to the size of the asset” is irrelevant for someone in a cash crunch.

And we’re talking hundreds of millions in deficits. That’s not short-term debt.

All I've seen are sob stories from certain owners who are using the opportunity to try to squeeze the players despite a written agreement from just 6 months ago.

There is no financial crisis whatsoever. Plenty of resources to go around. But the owners didn't get the wealth they have by playing nice so this should not be surprising. What is surprising sometimes is how people who claim to be financially literate are willing to parrot what the owners say uncritically. I suppose the admiration of wealth borders on religion for some folks.

I'll make you a deal:

If any single franchise declares bankruptcy in the next year, I'll take a 6 month hiatus from this forum. If no franchise declares bankruptcy in the next year, you take a 6 month hiatus from this forum. How does that sound?

 

[tarheelhockey]

All I've seen are sob stories from certain owners who are using the opportunity to try to squeeze the players despite a written agreement from just 6 months ago.

There is no financial crisis whatsoever. Plenty of resources to go around. But the owners didn't get the wealth they have by playing nice so this should not be surprising. What is surprising sometimes is how people who claim to be financially literate are willing to parrot what the owners say uncritically. I suppose the admiration of wealth borders on religion for some folks.

I'll make you a deal:

If any single franchise declares bankruptcy in the next year, I'll take a 6 month hiatus from this forum. If no franchise declares bankruptcy in the next year, you take a 6 month hiatus from this forum. How does that sound?

It’s absolutely remarkable how personally you seem to take this.

No, I would not like to make bets for the purpose of kicking people out of this community. But I would appreciate it if you’d stop impugning my motives in simply speaking about this topic.

 

[Ernie]

It’s absolutely remarkable how personally you seem to take this.

No, I would not like to make bets for the purpose of kicking people out of this community. But I would appreciate it if you’d stop impugning my motives in simply speaking about this topic.

Oh, I'm not taking it personally, trust me. I'd find it kind of amusing if it weren't so sad. There's just zero chance that a team declares bankruptcy in the next year so I figured I'd find out how firmly you believed in your narrative.

Clearly you don't. So maybe lay off the doom and gloom projections for the owners. Plenty of hardworking people who aren't billionaires are going to go bankrupt this year so maybe let's keep some perspective.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Oh, I'm not taking it personally, trust me. I'd find it kind of amusing if it weren't so sad. There's just zero chance that a team declares bankruptcy in the next year so I figured I'd find out how firmly you believed in your narrative.

Clearly you don't. So maybe lay off the doom and gloom projections for the owners. Plenty of hardworking people who aren't billionaires are going to go bankrupt this year so maybe let's keep some perspective.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear the first time.

I have no interest in chasing people out of this community just to prove a point. That includes you. There is absolutely nothing for me to gain if you leave for 6 months.

You want to take it to that level. I don’t get it. That’s all.

 

[Golden_Jet]

All I've seen are sob stories from certain owners who are using the opportunity to try to squeeze the players despite a written agreement from just 6 months ago.

There is no financial crisis whatsoever. Plenty of resources to go around. But the owners didn't get the wealth they have by playing nice so this should not be surprising. What is surprising sometimes is how people who claim to be financially literate are willing to parrot what the owners say uncritically. I suppose the admiration of wealth borders on religion for some folks.

I'll make you a deal:

If any single franchise declares bankruptcy in the next year, I'll take a 6 month hiatus from this forum. If no franchise declares bankruptcy in the next year, you take a 6 month hiatus from this forum. How does that sound?

Go ahead and take a 6 month hiatus, and study up on financials, as you don’t seem to understand them, or care to, with some of the statements I’ve read.

 

[Ernie]

Perhaps I wasn’t clear the first time.

I have no interest in chasing people out of this community just to prove a point. That includes you. There is absolutely nothing for me to gain if you leave for 6 months.

You want to take it to that level. I don’t get it. That’s all.

I just think there should be some accountability when people start spouting off here, particularly when they keep going after events prove otherwise.

Go ahead and take a 6 month hiatus, and study up on financials, as you don’t seem to understand them, or care to, with some of the statements I’ve read.

Hey I'll open that same deal up for you if you are so certain you have an understanding of this.