Line Combos: HFBoards Decides: Opening Lineup - Phil Kessel

[mpp9]

The Rossi has spoken. Kessel should play with Malkin because Crosby is better with grinders. All Hail The Rossi.

That's to be expected, but legit journalists like Dan Rosen are saying the same ****.

I actually got him to say, "He hasn't needed an elite winger to be elite himself, maybe there is something to that".

Well, neither has Malkin, ace. Should we play Kessel on the third line, then? It's hilarious how Sid and Geno are the only players who shouldn't be playing with other similar caliber players.

I hope this season is a giant wake up call to every one of these idiots.

 

[Penguinsyay]

So the general consensus seems to be that because Crosby has found success playing with grinders and scrubs, he should only play with grinders and scrubs. Since Malkin has had success with Neal, he should only play with Neal-like snipers. Crosby's vision and great passing ability shouldn't be tested with one of the game's best snipers? I fail to see the logic. I think Crosby will show us all how much of his potential has thus far been wasted playing with lower caliber players.

I'm also starting to think that people would be thrilled if Malkin + Hornqvist were unsuccessful, so that they can be justified in all their complaining. Apparently I can't even use statistics to show their potential for success because they "just won't work." Add in the fact that they haven't even been given adequate time on the same line to develop chemistry.

I would have gone with Malkin + Kessel myself to start, BUT I think not even trying Kessel with Crosby at some point would be the worst case scenario. Oh, and if it doesn't work out then MJ can just change the lines. That is a thing that coaches are allowed to do, btw.

 

[Shockmaster]

So the general consensus seems to be that because Crosby has found success playing with grinders and scrubs, he should only play with grinders and scrubs. Since Malkin has had success with Neal, he should only play with Neal-like snipers. Crosby's vision and great passing ability shouldn't be tested with one of the game's best snipers? I fail to see the logic. I think Crosby will show us all how much of his potential has thus far been wasted playing with lower caliber players.

I'm also starting to think that people would be thrilled if Malkin + Hornqvist were unsuccessful, so that they can be justified in all their complaining. Apparently I can't even use statistics to show their potential for success because they "just won't work." Add in the fact that they haven't even been given adequate time on the same line to develop chemistry.

I would have gone with Malkin + Kessel myself to start, BUT I think not even trying Kessel with Crosby at some point would be the worst case scenario. Oh, and if it doesn't work out then MJ can just change the lines. That is a thing that coaches are allowed to do, btw.

Heresy!

 

[TheSniper26]

The Rossi has spoken. Kessel should play with Malkin because Rossi has a bizarre dislike of Crosby and also pathetically thinks he's buddies with Malkin. All Hail The Rossi.

This is probably closer to the actual truth.

 

[Ogrezilla]

So the general consensus seems to be that because Crosby has found success playing with grinders and scrubs, he should only play with grinders and scrubs.

That is far from the general consensus on this site from what I've seen. The general consensus seems to be that Crosby found success with Hornqvist specifically, so he should continue playing with him.

I don't think there should be a consensus at this point. Both Sid and Geno should play with Kessel enough so that they are both comfortable with him and so that we can swap things around to making matching up with us as hard as possible.

 

[Whale Mingo]

The Rossi has spoken. Kessel should play with Malkin because Crosby is better with grinders. All Hail The Rossi.

This is all the proof anyone should need that Kessel should play with Sid.

 

[Shockmaster]

Bring back Brian Gibbons to play with Crosby!

 

[Shady Machine]

This is all the proof anyone should need that Kessel should play with Sid.

What? How is that proof of anything? We all know Rossi is an idiot.

 

[Penguinator]

What? How is that proof of anything? We all know Rossi is an idiot.

I wouldn't limit him to just being an idiot though, i mean, he knows how to make cash selling utter BS & that's something to be said...

 

[Speaking Moistly]

This is all the proof anyone should need that Kessel should play with Sid.

Yeah. We should collect Rossi's "ideas" over the season and see how many either didn't happen or were awful if they did, and of course the hilariously wrong opinions.

Rob Rossi Predicts.

 

[Shady Machine]

I wouldn't limit him to just being an idiot though, i mean, he knows how to make cash selling utter BS & that's something to be said...

That's fair. I should have said "we all know Rossi's opinions on hockey should not be taken seriously".

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I would genuinely like to try to understand how a person's opinion of "I think Kessel should play with Geno because of how well Hornqvist's game works with Sid's" somehow becomes "I hate Sid, I want Geno's success to supersede the team's."

Rossi's a dip-****. I wish people would ignore him so he'd ****ing go away.

 

[Penguinator]

Rossi's a dip-****. I wish people would ignore him so he'd ****ing go away.

Agreed but sadly, he has accumulated so much experience as a media troll that i fear that all our combined HF powers would not be enough to send him back to the stinking abominable insufferable *inconceivable* (*Princess Bride!) sewers he crawled out from.

 

[Shaftception]

I would genuinely like to try to understand how a person's opinion of "I think Kessel should play with Geno because of how well Hornqvist's game works with Sid's" somehow becomes "I hate Sid, I want Geno's success to supersede the team's."

Probably the same way the opposite opinion became "you just have more interest in individual awards than what's obviously best for the team, making you a lesser fan than me, a nobody with thousands of posts on an internet message board".

 

[Jacob]

I don't think there's much doubt that this forum has a bunch of people that are Sid fans first and Penguins fans second, if at all. It's been like that since 2006.

 

[steveg]

I don't think there should be a consensus at this point. Both Sid and Geno should play with Kessel enough so that they are both comfortable with him and so that we can swap things around to making matching up with us as hard as possible.

Well said...and I might add that Sid and Geno should both play with Kessel enough during camp/pre-season so as to see if one of them might find a particularly greater degree of chemistry with him than the other does. My guess is, given several games to play together, either Sid OR Geno would quickly find ways to excel with Kessel, so it may be a moot point.

Hopefully, the coaches give all options a fair shake prior to the start of the season; I still am of the opinion that IF Plotnikov can adapt to the NA game AND find successful chemistry with Geno as a third wheel, that

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Plotnikov-Malkin-Kessel

would prove to be a more balanced lineup providing more prolific offense, than

XXX-Crosby-Kessel
Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist

But with that said, I think both need to be tried, to find out for sure, and it sounds like that's what MJ intends to do in the preseason (start off with Sid and Kessel, but try other options as well to find what works the best).

 

[Ogrezilla]

I really don't see a reason Plotnikov can't play with Sid, too.

 

[Whale Mingo]

I don't think there's much doubt that this forum has a bunch of people that are Sid fans first and Penguins fans second, if at all. It's been like that since 2006.

Much like there are those that dislike Sid and sorely want this to be Geno's team. There are all kinds here for various reason.


I simply want the team to win another Cup and feel like it's finally time this organization put the nonsense of the last half decade+ behind us and start doing things that winning organizations do.

You have to admit, regardless of which side you are on, no organization has done less with more talent.

 

[steveg]

I really don't see a reason Plotnikov can't play with Sid, too.

Agreed, Ogre. If my caveat about Plots succeeding in NA/the NHL proves true, then he could indeed likely be the "XXX" on that Sid-Kessel line, as you are suggesting. For some reason though, I simply feel that given what is said about Plotnikov's style (plays big/physical, good on the boards, heavy game, some skill...but maybe not the fastest skater), would in my mind suggest that...

Plots-Malkin-Kessel > Plots-Crosby-Kessel

...ESPECIALLY since I like Perron-Crosby-Horny better than Perron-Malkin-Horny

But again, either line -- featurning Plots on one side and Kessel on the other -- would likely work, as I think Sid OR Geno could equally, effectively exploit Kessel's talent, with Plotnikov potentially an effective "third wheel" for either.

I simply want the team to win another Cup and feel like it's finally time this organization put the nonsense of the last half decade+ behind us and start doing things that winning organizations do.

Exactly correct.

You have to admit, regardless of which side you are on, no organization has done less with more talent.

Totally agree.

 

[Shady Machine]

Much like there are those that dislike Sid and sorely want this to be Geno's team. There are all kinds here for various reason.


I simply want the team to win another Cup and feel like it's finally time this organization put the nonsense of the last half decade+ behind us and start doing things that winning organizations do.

You have to admit, regardless of which side you are on, no organization has done less with more talent.

So doing things the right way means doing things your way? With Kessel, you can't go wrong by putting him with Sid or Geno.

You really need to stop assuming you are so much smarter than everyone that disagrees with you.

 

[Whale Mingo]

So doing things the right way means doing things your way? With Kessel, you can't go wrong by putting him with Sid or Geno.

I mean, everyone thinks their way is the right way, don't they? Otherwise you would do things differently, right?

I do know this, what they have been doing simply isn't working. Maybe mix it up a little with some solid strategy, I dunno.


And you are correct, you can't go wrong with putting Kessel with either of them, but one of them will ultimately be a better choice and I'm fully onboard with that being Sid.

 

[steveg]

I mean, everyone thinks their way is the right way, don't they? Otherwise you would do things differently, right?

I do know this, what they have been doing simply isn't working. Maybe mix it up a little with some solid strategy, I dunno.


And you are correct, you can't go wrong with putting Kessel with either of them, but one of them will ultimately be a better choice and I'm fully onboard with that being Sid.

I guess the question I'd ask is, if you are fully onboard with XXX-Sid-Kessel, then -- at the same time -- you are essentially saying that you feel Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist is a better option than Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist, right? I'm not sure I agree with that.

To me, the question that must be resolved is this: is XXX-Crosby-Kessel better than XXX-Malkin-Kessel BY A WIDE ENOUGH MARGIN that it offsets Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist being a potentially weaker line than Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist? In other words, we know Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist can work very, very well. Does Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist work equally well, or at least nearly so? Because IF that proves NOT to be the case, then to me, there must be SERIOUS consideration given to XXX-Malkin-Kessel, in the name of balance.

 

[Shady Machine]

I mean, everyone thinks their way is the right way, don't they? Otherwise you would do things differently, right?

I do know this, what they have been doing simply isn't working. Maybe mix it up a little with some solid strategy, I dunno.


And you are correct, you can't go wrong with putting Kessel with either of them, but one of them will ultimately be a better choice and I'm fully onboard with that being Sid.

You've toned down the exaggerated language a bit from earlier in the thread, so I can't really disagree with this.

 

[Whale Mingo]

I guess the question I'd ask is, if you are fully onboard with XXX-Sid-Kessel, then -- at the same time -- you are essentially saying that you feel Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist is a better option than Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist, right? I'm not sure I agree with that.

That isn't exactly fair because nowhere did I say Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist would be better than P-C-H, nowhere and I don't think they will be.

I do believe the cumulative effect of having Sid and Kessel together along with Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist will be better than just putting Kessel on Geno's line. Why do I think that? Because Sid is an incredibly dynamic player that has just not had a top quality winger on his side other than six weeks or so with Marian Hossa and they looked pretty good together.

I do not think we have seen everything Sid has to offer and it's getting late in his career and I'm pretty sold that the team could benefit from Sid having that option, finally. We can talk ourselves into believing that Sid found great chemistry with Pascal Dupuis and maybe he did, but in all honest how many other teams would PD be on the top line? Kunitz is certainly better than Dupuis, but he's still not a top/premium winger.

I'd just like to see them take a shot with Sid playing with a true top line winger as I think that is what is best for the team.

If a line of xxxx-Sid-Kessel puts up 200 points and Geno's line puts up 75 then yes, it's a problem.

 

[Shady Machine]

That isn't exactly fair because nowhere did I say Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist would be better than P-C-H, nowhere and I don't think they will be.

I do believe the cumulative effect of having Sid and Kessel together along with Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist will be better than just putting Kessel on Geno's line. Why do I think that? Because Sid is an incredibly dynamic player that has just not had a top quality winger on his side other than six weeks or so with Marian Hossa and they looked pretty good together.

I do not think we have seen everything Sid has to offer and it's getting late in his career and I'm pretty sold that the team could benefit from Sid having that option, finally. We can talk ourselves into believing that Sid found great chemistry with Pascal Dupuis and maybe he did, but in all honest how many other teams would PD be on the top line? Kunitz is certainly better than Dupuis, but he's still not a top/premium winger.

I'd just like to see them take a shot with Sid playing with a true top line winger as I think that is what is best for the team.

If a line of xxxx-Sid-Kessel puts up 200 points and Geno's line puts up 75 then yes, it's a problem.

You are creating a false narrative. Dupuis and Kunitz wouldn't be the other lines if Kessel is with Geno.

This sentence shows you aren't looking at things in a cumulative manner:

I do believe the cumulative effect of having Sid and Kessel together along with Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist will be better than just putting Kessel on Geno's line.

You say Sid-Kessel and Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist is greater than Geno-Kessel. Well no kidding because you didn't list the other line of Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist.

In order to conclude that Kessel should be with Crosby you have to believe that Kessel with Crosby is so much greater than Kessel with Malkin that it covers any loss in production of PMH vs PCH.

You could also argue that Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist is greater than or equal to Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist, which you haven't done.

Edit: I just reiterated what steve said above.