HFAvs Prospect Ranking Polls #5

[CB Joe]

Kamenev. He's 21 and he already proved he can be a successful scorer in the AHL.

Add Boikov

 

[ASmileyFace]

Gotta be Meloche for me.

Add Boikov

 

[CobraAcesS]

The same thing can be said about Meloche and you voted for him no? His stat line looks pretty brutal, especially in the ECHL, but if you actually watch him he looked very solid.

The next Jack Johnson





I'm sorry Meloche

 

[Cousin Eddie]

The same thing can be said about Meloche and you voted for him no? His stat line looks pretty brutal, especially in the ECHL, but if you actually watch him he looked very solid.

As I stated in my post, Meloche has at least shown he can do well as a #1D in the AHL which is a pro hockey league. Shyvryov hasn’t yet been able to make a team in a pro hockey league.

The way he’s scored in the MHL is legitimately extraordinary. Like it’s really awesome. But it’s the MHL. And he’s 20. What Russian players in history haven’t been able to make the full jump out of the MHL by 20? I’m legitimately asking by the way. You may list 500 great players. I just legitimately don’t know so I’m wondering how Shyvryov stacks up against other overage Russian junior players.

Ty Lewis is the same age as Shyv and just had a pretty comparable season stistically in the WHL and nobody is taking about him. The WHL is certainly a level above the MHL.

 

[S E P H]

As I stated in my post, Meloche has at least shown he can do well as a #1D in the AHL which is a pro hockey league. Shyvryov hasn’t yet been able to make a team in a pro hockey league.

The way he’s scored in the MHL is legitimately extraordinary. Like it’s really awesome. But it’s the MHL. And he’s 20. What Russian players in history haven’t been able to make the full jump out of the MHL by 20? I’m legitimately asking by the way. You may list 500 great players. I just legitimately don’t know so I’m wondering how Shyvryov stacks up against other overage Russian junior players.

Ty Lewis is the same age as Shyv and just had a pretty comparable season stistically in the WHL and nobody is taking about him. The WHL is certainly a level above the MHL.

I don't know if you know too much about the MHL, but it is by far the second toughest league to score in after the USHL. I am not saying it's tougher than any of the CHL leagues, but it is most definitely harder to score in. Also the WHL had one of the worst years since I started following the league, 2018 and the Bleackley draft (or was it 2016) were absolutely awful years. This might be controversial, but LHJMQ is clearly passing the Dub if you look at the consistency of players from the past five drafts.

Furthermore, just look at the stat line that Denisenko put up and he went 15th overall. Maybe that's a reach by the Panthers, but I don't think he's that bad of a player, opposite actually.

The next Jack Johnson





I'm sorry Meloche

I don't think JFJ was that bad of a player in his prime, so I wouldn't be angry if he turned out to be him. Meloche has an insane mean streak compared to Jack though.

 

[PAZ]

I don't think JFJ was that bad of a player in his prime, so I wouldn't be angry if he turned out to be him. Meloche has an insane mean streak compared to Jack though.

Jack Johnson + late 1st returned a perennial 30 goal, 60+ pt center. Honestly, I'd be ecstatic if Meloche came close to JJ's prime.

 

[henchman21]

Just because a player got passed up doesn't mean they can't be good, especially if they have mostly played in lower Euro leagues... even more so as a Russian. The MHL is a weird league to evaluate, but it isn't historically easy to put up big numbers, but big numbers don't mean things translate (big numbers in any league besides the NHL don't necessarily translate). That said, Shvy's production has been fantastic... his U19 was 1.75 points per game... others at U19 Kuch 1.87, Gusev 1.55, Panarin 1.16, Prokhorkin 1.73. It is by no means a guarantee he will be a good NHL player, but the level of production he put up is pretty damn good (3rd all time MHL U19, minimum 10 games played). Beyond that if you watch him, he has a very, very high skill level. I've seen a significant number of his games on film over the years and he is a crazy impactful player on that level. Most dangerous player on the ice every time he touched it. Now his KHL time is a very skewed measure... they typically don't play young players there. They can dress for games and never touch the ice. He had a number of games where he got a single shift... just one, the whole game. Not really a good measure for a young Russian player. I fully understand people doubting Shvy, and the adjustment to NA hockey might be a bit rough (people should expect player like Lewis to adjust to the AHL better... doesn't change a long-term view to me)... but if you have watched much MHL hockey, you can't help but be impressed by him. Ignoring all the stats, the most impressive MHL player I have seen since Gusev was in the league there. If you can get film of his games, you'll be impressed. Maybe not to the level of myself, but it is clear as day he has bunches of talent.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I voted Meloche. He’s had a nice development curve so far, and I think he’s close to the big step.

Kamenev next for me. He got that step and immediately got hurt, so I’m not sure what we have in him still.

And then Shvy/Lewis after that. I hate that I can’t put Greer above them, but I just think his upside is a little lower. He comes in after those 2.

 

[Tru]

Kamanev for me.

Add Boikov

 

[Tweaky]

Oh, wanted to add that it might be a good idea to add two players for a round or three. We are getting to the point that many varied opinions will be had, and I would rather not run into a situation where a player someone wants to vote for is not in the poll. But I also get the hassle of creating the poll with too many options.

 

[RockyMtnRedhawk]

Meloche, add Morrison

 

[McMetal]

Oh, wanted to add that it might be a good idea to add two players for a round or three. We are getting to the point that many varied opinions will be had, and I would rather not run into a situation where a player someone wants to vote for is not in the poll. But I also get the hassle of creating the poll with too many options.

It's that, plus the fact that the process to add players is done well in advance of them actually getting any votes. I added Annunen and Lewis a couple rounds ago and only Annunen has a single vote so far. Plus, the votes for players are added by popular vote, so it's not like people don't get a say in who's on the list.

The options would be to either add in a write in option for people to put in their candidate or just keeping the system as-is and letting the process play out. If you want to vote for somebody that the group hasn't seen fit to add yet, just pick from the options that we're democratically chosen.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Kamenev for me. Think he is a safer bet at this point. Not that I don't like Meloche, but I've seen more of Kamenev and I usually temper my expectations for defensemen. Still think he's probably 2 years away whereas Kam is ready now.

Add Nick Henry, think he has more potential than anyone not there save Weiss. I also don't get the Ranta hype, but I've only seen him on youtube.

Either way, I can't remember a time when our prospect pool has been this deep, especially given the youth already on the roster. We have a top tier of guys like Makar/Kaut/Timmins, a 'safe bets to be NHLers' tier with Bowers/Kamenev/Meloche. That's 6 players that you expect to have an impact on your roster at some point, and we already have the youngest team in the league. If we end up hitting on just 1 of Shyvrev/Lewis/Ranta/Henry/Greer/Weiss, that's just gravy. Hepple has done great work, and each year it just seems to get better. Gives Sakic great flexibility to make big trades and not go wild in free agency knowing we have troops on the way.

 

[Balthazar]

Kamenev for me. Think he is a safer bet at this point.

What's holding Kamenev back in the eyes of many fans is how he looked during his couple of games in the NHL (which is probably unfair considering what happened to him).

Regardless, he should win #6.

 

[UncleRisto]

What's holding Kamenev back in the eyes of many fans is how he looked during his couple of games in the NHL (which is probably unfair considering what happened to him).

Regardless, he should win #6.

Actually what I think holds him back now is what happened in that first NHL game, and how it affected his season.

 

[McMetal]

The injury is definitely hurting Kamenev, both development wise and in the eyes of the fanbase. I would rank him below Meloche, but above Bowers, but that's not how the polls went, so Meloche gets my vote again.

Kamenev vs. Shvyrev... I go back and forth. Kamenev is closer to NHL impact as a middle six C, and I like him a lot. Shvyrev has the potential to be a true impact scorer, but hasn't proven much yet. It will be interesting to see how the Meloche vote splits tomorrow when the next poll starts.

 

[Murzu]

After this poll, I'll go Kamenev > Shvyrev > Greer. Then the difficult part begins.

 

[AdamCalderHero]

Yeah I went Kamenev here over Meloche. Not because I'm down on Meloche, but because I like Kamenev that bit more.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

The next vote will be very difficult for me. The poll yearly problem of do I go for more NHL ready or upside? Kam is more ready but Shvy has more upside. I had the same problem with Bowers and I voted for him so I guess I'll stay true to that and vote Kam for the next poll.

 

[cgf]

This should be Shvy but it wont be. Oh well a year for now this will be a funny one to look back on I suspect.

Nah, Shvyry should've won two polls ago. This one should be Timmins, with Bowers up next ;-)

 

[cgf]

I'm excited about Igor coming over but there's also a wait and see mindset because I'm not sure what to expect. The new Eagles HC has been described as an old school, no nonsense, defensive coach so it'll be interesting to see how things go.

I'm trying not to get too excited about Igor before he plays a single game in the AHL. He's next on my list but I think we should temper our hopes until he actually does something on small ice.

I don't see why we would be more skeptical of him than we are any other non-AHLer. Why not wait to get excited by the potential of Timmins or Bowers until we see them in NA-pro-hockey?

On talent + hockey-IQ, Makar is the only prospect we have who has Shvyryov clearly beat. I don't see why the questions about Igor adapting to smaller ice are any bigger than our questions about Kaut adapting to the smaller ice...or about Timmins adapting to the rough n tumble AHL given his skating, how much he likes to hold onto the puck, and his concussion history (mistreated or not)...or about Bowers adapting to being on the top line for BU & not getting to take advantage of lesser opposition for his production / whether Bowers really has the top 6 skill to become more than Soda 2.0

I get not getting too carried away until we see these kids play pro hockey in NA, but I don't see why we should only apply that to Shvyry. Especially now that the single biggest question mark about him as a prospect...whether he even wanted to ever come to NA...has been answered emphatically by him not only coming to NA, but coming to the AHL just 1 year after being drafted.

PS Igor is a nifty two-way player with a real nack for stealing pucks, like Jost.

I don’t care how under utilized he was. 20 year old Shvyrov and his 1 point in 42 career KHL games is going to have to prove something more to me before I start voting for him in this poll.

I like what I hear about his skill. I hope he ****ing lights the world on fire. But what are we all basing this hope on? Something NHL teams don’t have the capability of scouting yet the great HF Avs board can?

I mean a few posters here can praise him all you want but he was passed over 211 times by NHL teams in 2016 and then again another 124 times the year we took him. He also apparently hasn’t been good enough to make any Russian world junior teams.

So yeah that cute twitter loop of him dancing the zone a few years ago against a bunch of junior kids looks great, but there’s been no proof that he’s anything more than a great MHL player at this point. At least Meloche did a fantastic job in the #1D roll on an AHL team for the final quarter of a pro hockey season.

I don't know if he even broke 100 shifts in those 42 KHL games. He wasn't just under-utilized, he was barely utilized at all.

Plus how much did Meloche being a stud in pro hockey help him in the last 3 polls? Why do those kids get to be judged on their play in youth hockey, but Shvyry is being judged for the scant minutes he had playing against pros?

 

[cgf]

Thought I would vote Greer here but Meloche somehow made a lot out of a difficult season for him.

Meloche had a pretty typical first pro season, start the year battling the #s game but by season's end grow into a significant role.

Mikko just messed our expectations for what a first-year AHLer is supposed to do up

 

[cgf]

As I stated in my post, Meloche has at least shown he can do well as a #1D in the AHL which is a pro hockey league. Shyvryov hasn’t yet been able to make a team in a pro hockey league.

The way he’s scored in the MHL is legitimately extraordinary. Like it’s really awesome. But it’s the MHL. And he’s 20. What Russian players in history haven’t been able to make the full jump out of the MHL by 20? I’m legitimately asking by the way. You may list 500 great players. I just legitimately don’t know so I’m wondering how Shyvryov stacks up against other overage Russian junior players.

Ty Lewis is the same age as Shyv and just had a pretty comparable season stistically in the WHL and nobody is taking about him. The WHL is certainly a level above the MHL.

Shvryr's MHL production was extraordinary in previous season as well though, so he's not an overager coming out of nowhere. He has produced as well as the elite russian talents did at the same ages in the MHL. As for guys who took a while to make the jump, Panarin is the prime example, but there's also Kaprizov (IIRC) and a few others.

It's just hard to find many stastical comps for him cause most guys that produced as well as Shvyry did at 18 or 19 have been the Buchnevich's & Tarasenko's who were rushed into real KHL gigs because they were highly touted & highly drafted in the NHL. There aren't really any kids who produced in the MHL like Shvyry but weren't Hockey Russia favorites that got a ton of attention.

 

[McMetal]

On talent + hockey-IQ, Makar is the only prospect we have who has Shvyryov clearly beat. I don't see why the questions about Igor adapting to smaller ice are any bigger than our questions about Kaut adapting to the smaller ice...or about Timmins adapting to the rough n tumble AHL given his skating, how much he likes to hold onto the puck, and his concussion history (mistreated or not)...or about Bowers adapting to being on the top line for BU & not getting to take advantage of lesser opposition for his production / whether Bowers really has the top 6 skill to become more than Soda 2.0

I get not getting too carried away until we see these kids play pro hockey in NA, but I don't see why we should only apply that to Shvyry. Especially now that the single biggest question mark about him as a prospect...whether he even wanted to ever come to NA...has been answered emphatically by him not only coming to NA, but coming to the AHL just 1 year after being drafted.

Russian style hockey is different than NHL hockey. The reason why so many Russians get tagged as "floaters" is because in Russia they teach players a more methodical, patient brand of play. NA hockey is faster and more aggressive and rewards slightly different traits. I'm just trying to be clear-eyed about the chance that he won't translate despite his obvious skill. My gut says he will and that his vision will help him adapt, but there's a chance the transition will be bumpier than we'd hope.

 

[Pokecheque]

I still have faith that AJG will turn out to be a decent middle-six player. Guess we'll see, but he needs to be given the chance first.