Player Discussion Hey Max Domi, welcome to the show

[417]

Are you guys serious?

You think 150 shots over an 82 game season is "a lot" and you're asking us if we're serious?

By comparison...Lehkonen had 164 shots last year...IN 66 GAMES!

Let's stick with Chucky as he's this amazing goalscorer/Sniper that we traded away.

He got 213 shots last season for 2.6 shots per game.

Domi who's primarily a playmaker was shooting at a 1.83 rate per game!

The difference is enormous!!!

#1. I don't think or have ever said Galchenyuk is an amazing goalscorer/sniper

#2. I've always criticized Galchenyuk's LACK of shots on net, for a player with as good a shot as he has, he doesn't shoot nearly enough. Last year's 213 shots for Galchenyuk, wasn't nearly enough for a player whose supposed to be a goal scorer.

Max Pacioretty, who played 18 LESS games than Galchenyuk finished last year with 212 shots compared to Galchenyuk who finished with 213 over 82 games.

Now I wouldn't qualify Domi as a goal scorer, he's a playmaker...so the fact he got 150 shots last year isn't necessarily an issue per se, because he's not nor will he ever be a high volume shooter.

But on a team like the Habs who doesn't have any pure shooters beyond Pacioretty, that's an issue.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Are you guys serious?

Let's stick with Chucky as he's this amazing goalscorer/Sniper that we traded away.

He got 213 shots last season for 2.6 shots per game.

Domi who's primarily a playmaker was shooting at a 1.83 rate per game!

The difference is enormous!!!

I'm not really sure what your point is. It's not some accident that Alex scores more than Max. I'm just telling you why this happens. Alex and Max attempt shots at a similar rate. The difference is that Max sucks at getting to good areas from which to score, and getting his shot on net generally. Alex is much better at that, and possesses a much more dangerous shot. The difference in the end result is actually pretty large.

 

[DAChampion]

Summarizing:

1) Alex Galchenyuk, who got 32 assists last year, is a one-dimensional goal scorer.
2) Max Domi, who scored 5 even-strength goals last year, is a fine goal scorer.

 

[Belial]

You think 150 shots over an 82 game season is "a lot" and you're asking us if we're serious?

By comparison...Lehkonen had 164 shots last year...IN 66 GAMES!


#1. I don't think or have ever said Galchenyuk is an amazing goalscorer/sniper

#2. I've always criticized Galchenyuk's LACK of shots on net, for a player with as good a shot as he has, he doesn't shoot nearly enough. Last year's 213 shots for Galchenyuk, wasn't nearly enough for a player whose supposed to be a goal scorer.

Max Pacioretty, who played 18 LESS games than Galchenyuk finished last year with 212 shots compared to Galchenyuk who finished with 213 over 82 games.

Now I wouldn't qualify Domi as a goal scorer, he's a playmaker...so the fact he got 150 shots last year isn't necessarily an issue per se, because he's not nor will he ever be a high volume shooter.

But on a team like the Habs who doesn't have any pure shooters beyond Pacioretty, that's an issue.

I think you missed how this whole conversation started...

NotProk said Domi doesn't shoot, for a guy who apparently doesn't shoot, 150 shots is a lot of shots!

And again why are you comparing Lehkonen to a guy like Domi if you're fully aware that one's a finisher and the other one's a playmaker?

 

[417]

I think you missed how this whole conversation started...

NotProk said Domi doesn't shoot, for a guy who apparently doesn't shoot, 150 shots is a lot of shots!

150 shots is not a lot of shots for a guy who finished 3rd in TOI among forwards for the Coyotes last year.

That's simply not true.

And again why are you comparing Lehkonen to a guy like Domi if you're fully aware that one's a finisher and the other one's a playmaker?

I thought it was obvious...it was to illustrate that despite playing 66 games (Lehkonen) vs 82 (Domi), Lehkonen still finished with more shots.

I understand they are different players, but it's just to reinforce the fact that 150 shots for a top 6 forward, is really not a lot....even Paul Byron who only shoots when he absolutely has too, had 115 shots.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think you missed how this whole conversation started...

NotProk said Domi doesn't shoot, for a guy who apparently doesn't shoot, 150 shots is a lot of shots!

And again why are you comparing Lehkonen to a guy like Domi if you're fully aware that one's a finisher and the other one's a playmaker?

No, it's not, and it's even less when you consider his ice-time. He was 302nd out of all forwards considered (368 in total) in terms of shots per hour.

 

[DAChampion]

one's a finisher and the other one's a playmaker?

Stop with that infantile dichotomy

All of the great offensive players are capable of both scoring and playmaking.
Some good offensive players, such as Galchenyuk, are dependable to chip in 20 goals and 30 assists.

One-dimensional playmakers like Max Domi are in fact quite rare, and are virtually never elite.

 

[Et le But]

Any elite "playmaker" is also generating a lot of shots themselves. Otherwise you end up like Scott Gomez and teams will adjust to you quickly. Being "pass first" without being able to keep defenses honest with your shot is even more useless than tunnel vision shooters - at least the latter will develop opportunities via deflections and the like.

 

[Belial]

150 shots is not a lot of shots for a guy who finished 3rd in TOI among forwards for the Coyotes last year.

That's simply not true.


I thought it was obvious...it was to illustrate that despite playing 66 games (Lehkonen) vs 82 (Domi), Lehkonen still finished with more shots.

I understand they are different players, but it's just to reinforce the fact that 150 shots for a top 6 forward, is really not a lot....even Paul Byron who only shoots when he absolutely has too, had 115 shots.

No, it's not, and it's even less when you consider his ice-time. He was 302nd out of all forwards considered (368 in total) in terms of shots per hour.

Stop with that infantile dichotomy

All of the great offensive players are capable of both scoring and playmaking.
Some good offensive players, such as Galchenyuk, are dependable to chip in 20 goals and 30 assists.

One-dimensional playmakers like Max Domi are in fact quite rare, and are virtually never elite.

You guys are really grasping at straws...

I don't even know what the heck are you arguing about?

Arizona's shot totals last year:

Keller 212
Stepan 209
Fischer 154
Dvorak 151
Domi 150

I mean what's the problem here?

Domi is primarily a playmaker, and he shoots at a decent rate for someone who will always try and set up someone...

I mean the difference in shot totals is not enormous for god sake, why are you all so angry? Geez...

Last season:
Stastny 159 shots
Bozak 154 shots
Henrique 151 shots
Turris 145 shots
Johansen 129 shots 79GP
Oshie 127 shots 74 GP
Scheifele 125 shots 60 GP
Getzlaf 117 shots 56 GP

 

[nhlfan9191]

I think you missed how this whole conversation started...

NotProk said Domi doesn't shoot, for a guy who apparently doesn't shoot, 150 shots is a lot of shots!

And again why are you comparing Lehkonen to a guy like Domi if you're fully aware that one's a finisher and the other one's a playmaker?

I’m confused with your logic. A poor shooting percentage should tell you more about the players ability to finish and you’re arguing that he shoots a lot and not getting results like it’s a good thing? Even if you’re aware he’s not a finisher, if you think he’s taking a lot of shots(he’s not), you would think he’d be beating a goalie more then 5 times a year.

 

[417]

You guys are really grasping at straws...

I don't even know what the heck are you arguing about?

Arizona's shot totals last year:

Keller 212
Stepan 209
Fischer 154
Dvorak 151
Domi 150

I mean what's the problem here?

Domi is primarily a playmaker, and he shoots at a decent rate for someone who will always try and set up someone...

I mean the difference in shot totals is not enormous for god sake, why are you all so angry? Geez...

Last season:
Stastny 159 shots
Bozak 154 shots
Henrique 151 shots
Turris 145 shots
Johansen 129 shots 79GP
Oshie 127 shots 74 GP
Scheifele 125 shots 60 GP
Getzlaf 117 shots 56 GP

I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is...Max Domi is a playmaker, I don't think I said that the fact he finished with 150 shots as a bad thing.

I just disagreed that 150 shots is a lot...it's not.

 

[NotProkofievian]

You guys are really grasping at straws...

I don't even know what the heck are you arguing about?

Arizona's shot totals last year:

Keller 212
Stepan 209
Fischer 154
Dvorak 151
Domi 150

I mean what's the problem here?

Domi is primarily a playmaker, and he shoots at a decent rate for someone who will always try and set up someone...

No he doesn't. I've already told you that the overwhelming majority of forwards shoot more than him. He doesn't shoot at a decent rate, period. He tries to. He just sucks at it.

 

[Bryson]

Stop with that infantile dichotomy

All of the great offensive players are capable of both scoring and playmaking.
Some good offensive players, such as Galchenyuk, are dependable to chip in 20 goals and 30 assists.

One-dimensional playmakers like Max Domi are in fact quite rare, and are virtually never elite.

Peter Chiarelli is considered by some to be the worst GM in the league because of the Taylor Hall trade, I wonder if the Galchenyuk trade has the potential to be on that same level trading for a player that scored only 5 even-strength goals.

Taylor Hall was largely considered to have busted in Edmonton and only scored 53 points last year, similar to Galchenyuk. Alex has been PPG for stretches when he played with Pacioretty and Radulov. If AG can find himself on a line with Clayton Keller I think he has the potential to explode.

 

[Laurentide]

Peter Chiarelli is considered by some to be the worst GM in the league because of the Taylor Hall trade, I wonder if the Galchenyuk trade has the potential to be on that same level trading for a player that scored only 5 even-strength goals.

Taylor Hall was largely considered to have busted in Edmonton and only scored 53 points last year, similar to Galchenyuk. Alex has been PPG for stretches when he played with Pacioretty and Radulov. If AG can find himself on a line with Clayton Keller I think he has the potential to explode.

On his worst day as an Oiler, Hall was a more valuable asset around the league than Galchenyuk on his best day. And for me the main reason why Chiapet gets grief over the trade has less to do with how well Hall played once he was out of Edmonton (something which could have been predicted since Hall, as a former first overall, has all the tools to be great and because the league knows that the Oilers are dysfunctional from the top down) and more to do with the fact that the player he got in return has been a bust. I don't get the sense that Galchenyuk is going to break out in a significant way on a crap team like Arizona or that Domi is going to be a bust.

 

[DAChampion]

Peter Chiarelli is considered by some to be the worst GM in the league because of the Taylor Hall trade, I wonder if the Galchenyuk trade has the potential to be on that same level trading for a player that scored only 5 even-strength goals.

Taylor Hall was largely considered to have busted in Edmonton and only scored 53 points last year, similar to Galchenyuk. Alex has been PPG for stretches when he played with Pacioretty and Radulov. If AG can find himself on a line with Clayton Keller I think he has the potential to explode.

A lot of players do far better when they leave Montreal's organization: Subban, Eller, Pateryn, Radulov, etc. Even Sergachev might be included, though people either deny it or fail to mention it now, the fact is that prior to the Sergachev trade this forum was bursting at the seams with talk that Sergachev was going to bust and that he was the wrong pick at #9.

We may see the same happen with Galchenyuk. He has been woefully mis-used in Montreal, he was frequently paired with low-talent players on the 4th line, and/or limited to ~12 minutes a game. In Arizona, he is likely to play 18-20 minutes with better players on his line. He definitely has the potential to become a ~70-point forward, or at worst a consistent 60+ point forward. IMO, he just needs to stay healthy.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

People keep bringing up a 20-25 game stretch from 2 seasons ago where Galchenyuk put up a PPG, but Domi is just considered a "5 goal even strength scorer" despite getting 18 goals that same season.

We are talking about a 23 and a 24 year old here, both players will likely benefit from a change of scenery.

 

[DAChampion]

People keep bringing up a 20-25 game stretch from 2 seasons ago where Galchenyuk put up a PPG, but Domi is just considered a "5 goal even strength scorer" despite getting 18 goals that same season.

We are talking about a 23 and a 24 year old here, both players will likely benefit from a change of scenery.

For offensive players, 23 years-old is not considered part of the development period, it's considered part of the prime.

Max Domi has been in the NHL for three years now, and his body is now crippled with injuries. Most likely: what you see is what you get. For Galchenyuk, he may break the trend due to one reason and one reason only: he's been playing for one of hockey's most dysfunctional organization. Moreover, Galchenyuk has had multiple great stretches, he's done well whenever he's been placed in a position to succeed.

 

[Laurentide]

A lot of players do far better when they leave Montreal's organization: Subban, Eller, Pateryn, Radulov, etc. Even Sergachev might be included, though people either deny it or fail to mention it now, the fact is that prior to the Sergachev trade this forum was bursting at the seams with talk that Sergachev was going to bust and was the wrong pick at #9.

We may see the same happen with Galchenyuk. He has been woefully mis-used in Montreal, he was frequently paired with low-talent players on the 4th line, and/or limited to ~12 minutes a game. In Arizona, he is likely to play 18-20 minutes with better players on his line. He definitely has the potential to become a ~70-point forward, or at worst a consistent 60+ point forward. IMO, he just needs to stay healthy.

I'm sure that if the Drouin-Sergachev trade had never happened that many Habs fans would be crapping on Bergevin for not trading a guy who looks like he'll never amount to anything for a dynamic, young offensive talent who happens also to be French Canadian.

But Arizona suffers from the same problem as Montreal: both teams tend to make individual players seem worse than they really are. Good teams help players reach their potential (see Sergachev) while bad teams using dumbed-down defense-heavy systems drag them down.

 

[NotProkofievian]

On his worst day as an Oiler, Hall was a more valuable asset around the league than Galchenyuk on his best day. And for me the main reason why Chiapet gets grief over the trade has less to do with how well Hall played once he was out of Edmonton (something which could have been predicted since Hall, as a former first overall, has all the tools to be great and because the league knows that the Oilers are dysfunctional from the top down) and more to do with the fact that the player he got in return has been a bust. I don't get the sense that Galchenyuk is going to break out in a significant way on a crap team like Arizona or that Domi is going to be a bust.

Galchenyuk exploding in Arizona, especially if it's at center, will be the most embarrassing move I think since the Forsberg-Erat deal, if only because of Bergevin's handling of the player/situation. Bergevin went on record that Galchenyuk is ''like an alcoholic, he doesn't know he has a problem'' and that ''Alex is not a center, I don't need to see him play at that position to know he's not a center.''

The hit pieces write themselves. It would be an even more spectacular reversal than ''we are better than last year, especially at the blue line.''

 

[Belial]

I’m confused with your logic. A poor shooting percentage should tell you more about the players ability to finish and you’re arguing that he shoots a lot and not getting results like it’s a good thing? Even if you’re aware he’s not a finisher, if you think he’s taking a lot of shots(he’s not), you would think he’d be beating a goalie more then 5 times a year.

Again, this whole discussion started when NotProk said that Domi doesn't shoot.

150 shots prove that he does shoot though.

I have no problem with him only shooting 150 times a year, his force is his playmaking and not his shot.

I would rather see him gain the offensive zone and set someone up instead of throwing the puck to the net from a bad angle!

This whole discussion went bananas, to be honest...

Are shots on net suddenly important?

I've been reading for years how shots on net are useless if they're not dangerous.

So everything changed all of a sudden?

Domi could get 300 shots on net if he wanted, will that be good? Would that make a difference?

I hate when guys are inconsistent in their opinions/arguments.

When I was defending Pacioretty after the Rangers series using shots on net and scoring chances they all said who the f*** cares about shots on net...

Apparently now it's extremely important...

I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is...Max Domi is a playmaker, I don't think I said that the fact he finished with 150 shots as a bad thing.

I just disagreed that 150 shots is a lot...it's not.

Again, the only reason I said it's a lot it's cuz NotProk said he doesn't shoot!

It's a lot from that context.

No he doesn't. I've already told you that the overwhelming majority of forwards shoot more than him. He doesn't shoot at a decent rate, period. He tries to. He just sucks at it.

Yes they do shoot more than him for god sake, are they able to pass the puck like him though?

There's nothing exceptional in gaining the zone and throw a nothing shot on the net!

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

For offensive players, 23 years-old is not considered part of the development period, it's considered part of the prime.

Max Domi has been in the NHL for three years now, and his body is now crippled with injuries. Most likely: what you see is what you get. For Galchenyuk, he may break the trend due to one reason and one reason only: he's been playing for one of hockey's most dysfunctional organization. Moreover, Galchenyuk has had multiple great stretches, he's done well whenever he's been placed in a position to succeed.

How is Domi crippled with injuries? He had a broken hand in 2016-2017. Gallagher broke his hand twice and just had a career year last seaosn. Meanwhile he's being compared to a guy who isn't a good skater and has already had 3 knee injuries in his career.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Again, this whole discussion started when NotProk said that Domi doesn't shoot.

150 shots prove that he does shoot though.

I have no problem with him only shooting 150 times a year, his force is his playmaking and not his shot.

I would rather see him gain the offensive zone and set someone up instead of throwing the puck to the net from a bad angle!

This whole discussion went bananas, to be honest...

Are shots on net suddenly important?

I've been reading for years how shots on net are useless if they're not dangerous.

So everything changed all of a sudden?

Domi could get 300 shots on net if he wanted, will that be good? Would that make a difference?

I hate when guys are inconsistent in their opinions/arguments.

When I was defending Pacioretty after the Rangers series using shots on net and scoring chances they all said who the **** cares about shots on net...

Apparently now it's extremely important...

You’re missing their point I think. It has nothing to do with taking useless shots as much as it has to do with actually having an ability to finish. That’s why people are weary of Domi. He doesn’t shoot at a lot and when he does, he struggles to score goals. And we traded a guy who could score goals and put up as many or just about as many assists as Domi can. We don’t know what will happen next season, but if we go off of what we atleast know now, we’re an offensively starved team that just lost more offensive production.

As far as people complaining about us taking useless shots as a team, it’s because that garbage crash the net system that came into play when Therrien was hired robbed the team of any offensive creativity. Throw the puck at the net and hope for a bounce and when the games mattered, those “lucky bounces” never happened. When Julien came into camp last year, I was expecting to see atleast a little more creativity but again we were just throwing the puck at the net blindly, praying to get bounces.

 

[bobholly39]

I'm fine with option B

we lack centers. Testing out things is fine. The problem is coaching is horrible and they don't get the concept of "testing out for a bit". They either permanently play the wrong people at the wrong positions,or don't give a chance to those who should get them at the right positions

 

[Laurentide]

Galchenyuk exploding in Arizona, especially if it's at center, will be the most embarrassing move I think since the Forsberg-Erat deal, if only because of Bergevin's handling of the player/situation. Bergevin went on record that Galchenyuk is ''like an alcoholic, he doesn't know he has a problem'' and that ''Alex is not a center, I don't need to see him play at that position to know he's not a center.''

The hit pieces write themselves. It would be an even more spectacular reversal than ''we are better than last year, especially at the blue line.''

Maybe but I doubt that the Coyotes are the team on which Galchenyuk will be able to prove his detractors wrong. They're as poorly run as the Habs. And let's not forget that Galchenyuk has some real baggage that goes beyond Subban-level philosophical differences between player and coach. We know he's been in rehab and we know that he has a domineering hockey dad who has his own ideas about how his son should play the game. These are not the kind of problems that will magically disappear just because he's been traded.

 

[Belial]

You’re missing their point I think. It has nothing to do with taking useless shots as much as it has to do with actually having an ability to finish. That’s why people are weary of Domi. He doesn’t shoot at a lot and when he does, he struggles to score goals. And we traded a guy who could score goals and put up as many or just about as many assists as Domi can. We don’t know what will happen next season, but if we go off of what we atleast know now, we’re an offensively starved team that just lost more offensive production.

As far as people complaining about us taking useless shots as a team, it’s because that garbage crash the net system that came into play when Therrien was hired robbed the team of any offensive creativity. Throw the puck at the net and hope for a bounce and when the games mattered, those “lucky bounces” never happened. When Julien came into camp last year, I was expecting to see atleast a little more creativity but again we were just throwing the puck at the net blindly, praying to get bounces.

Do you really think that Domi will shoot to the net and have a 3.4% of success for the rest of his career?

Look at this highlight and then tell me with a straight face that this guy doesn't have a decent shot: