Hextall's moves

[NYCFlyer]

Random list of thoughts:

I have loved Hextall's moves because they show his patience. Philly is a rough town. People say they want to rebuild and then jump at the next free agent. It seems most of the bad signings are UFA signings when the competition is at it's peak for the player's services, and often, it ends up biting the team in the end, like MacDonald's contract is doing to us right now.

The only way to win consistently in a cap world is to maintain cap flexibility (or be really bad for a while and get supercharged picks and win before they demand too much money (which doesn't always work)).

Not buying any substantial UFA and not trading away picks and prospects at the trade deadline are arguably the best things Hextall has done (well, and along with getting rid of cap-sucking players that he inherited).

In order for a team to compete, they need defense. Acquiring #1 d-men through trade or signing is almost impossible (Subban for Weber was a #1 for a #1). So logic says you have to draft one. No team in the past decade has won the Cup without a serious #1 d-man. The Canes (2006) did it by committee with no #1. But since then Anaheim (2007) had Pronger and Niedermayer, Detroit (2008) had Lidstrom, Pens (2009) had supercharged once in a lifetime offense along with Letang, Chicago (2010, 13, 15) has Keith, Boston (2011) has Chara, LA (2012, 14) has Doughty, and Pens (2016) have Letang, who should have received Norris consideration.

Logic suggests the only way for the Flyers to contend is to have a #1 d-man. There is no player the Flyers can realistically acquire that will be this player, so we have to hope one of our prospects becomes a real #1 D-man.

All of these thoughts to suggest that Hextall worrying about defense first and shedding cap is the way to build a long term contender. I agree, it is disconcerting that our best offensive players will be in their 30s when our D matures (should our D actually pan out), but I think Hextall is doing what it takes to make us long-term contenders. It might not work, but he is going through the proper process.

Totally agree but would add that after he used premium picks on D he focused on building our goaltending pipeline and bottom six pipeline. Really whats left is to make LV very competitive (hopefully this year) for the young guys and somehow continue to be patient because the D will take a few years to become battle hardened.

 

[deadhead]

Mason: $5m-6m is pretty much the established range for a starter now...

Andersen, Fleury, Bishop, Schneider, Miller, Varmalov & Crawford all got in that range...

And then there are Talbot, Allen, Anderson, Halak & Dubnyk who are in the 4-5m range... but either not as established or not as reliable.

Lundqvist, Bobrovsky & Holtby are the only guys who signed for over $6m in the last 3 years... and Holtby was $6.1m while Bob was massively overpaid!

I would not give Mason a long-term contract, I think one reason they've obtained all these goalie prospects is Hextall knows Mason isn't the answer - his playoff record is worse than his regular season record - and playoffs are the key to a goalie's value.

Mason is a good #2 goalie and a #1 for a team without serious cup aspirations, but I have no confidence of him "stealing" playoff games against good teams.

At age 28 he's revived his career, but I think what you see is what you get, a good goalie who's not elite and never will be.

 

[hatcher]

I would not give Mason a long-term contract, I think one reason they've obtained all these goalie prospects is Hextall knows Mason isn't the answer - his playoff record is worse than his regular season record - and playoffs are the key to a goalie's value.

Mason is a good #2 goalie and a #1 for a team without serious cup aspirations, but I have no confidence of him "stealing" playoff games against good teams.

At age 28 he's revived his career, but I think what you see is what you get, a good goalie who's not elite and never will be.

Exactly. I like him but he's not the answer. Sucks on breakaways and gives up average shots a lot but then makes 40 saves that make you think he's elite.

 

[Curufinwe]

Mason's playoff record is 12 games, 4 of which happened in 2009. That's not a big enough sample size to be used in equal comparison to his hundreds of regular season games.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Mason's EV numbers are pretty terrific league wide and they have been for about 3 years now.

Is PK numbers are different, I don't know why, maybe its scheme, maybe mindset.

PO, well the first time he was there, was pathetic, ok. 2nd time he was there was the only reason the Flyers were even in that series. Third time, he was not to blame, but again, not a great performance.

 

[Breeze 44]

I'd like him to bring Pirri in to add some scoring...and gotta get rid of Streit, Ghost and MDZ play the same game as him but better.

 

[Rebels57]

I would not give Mason a long-term contract, I think one reason they've obtained all these goalie prospects is Hextall knows Mason isn't the answer - his playoff record is worse than his regular season record - and playoffs are the key to a goalie's value.

Mason is a good #2 goalie and a #1 for a team without serious cup aspirations, but I have no confidence of him "stealing" playoff games against good teams.

At age 28 he's revived his career, but I think what you see is what you get, a good goalie who's not elite and never will be.

All of this is incorrect. I expect better from you.

He stole playoff games already for us against a Rangers team that almost won the Cup in 2014.

 

[Magua]

I would not give Mason a long-term contract, I think one reason they've obtained all these goalie prospects is Hextall knows Mason isn't the answer - his playoff record is worse than his regular season record - and playoffs are the key to a goalie's value

I think the real reason he's acquired so many goalies is because it was a massive weakness in the system. Also, the league is trending more towards a 2-goalie rotation, where the backup is getting more games and the need to have a solid #2 is more important than ever. The idea of a superstar goalie being paid a ton too has been questioned more and more. A good goalie is all you need, who can make the saves you need, not someone you need as a crutch. A great team + good goalie will do the trick. Having so many goalies also makes them more tradable when their salary exceeds worth.

I think they want to re-sign Mason and he's a terrific goalie who I trust in any playoff series, but his ask has to be reasonable. Considering these goalies are very far from being in the NHL, I'd say it has nothing to do with Mason. Stolarz/Lyon could be backups in 17-18, but they're not ready to be starters either.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Washington has been doing that for years now despite having good goalies at the NHL level. They had Varlamov, Neuvirth, & Holtby all in their system playing pro hockey at the same time years ago. They're doing it again as Holtby is approaching UFA status. They've stocked up on goalies again including a first rounder last year in Ilya Samsonov.

Nobody wants to hand out a blank check to a player because they have no other options. At the goaltending postion that holds more true than the others.

 

[deadhead]

All of this is incorrect. I expect better from you.

He stole playoff games already for us against a Rangers team that almost won the Cup in 2014.

And he was godawful this year (not even talking about the long shot that went in, he just didn't inspire confidence).

Which is why I say I have no confidence that he's going to steal a game, much less a series, the way Neuvirth almost did. Mason can play very well for stretches, but he also has his down stretches, which is why he's a good goalie, but not an elite goalie. He's like the girl with the curl.

Neuvrith has 12 playoff starts and a .933 save %. Small sample, but that's still pretty impressive - problem is what are the odds he'd stay healthy as a starter.

Which is why they worked well as a pair, Mason is more dependable in the regular season, Neuvrith rested and healthy in the playoffs. But to me, neither is good enough to open up the safe and dole out the big money, long-term deal.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Lundqvist is one of the best goalies in the league but despite that is starting to prove that goalies in general aren't worth long term contracts. If he's not worth than not many are if any.

Look at Holtby he was on the younger side & Washington still fought with him over term. They ended up signing him for 5 years at $6.1M AVV. That's about the max I would go with an elite goalie.

For a guy like Mason I'm fine offering a $5.5M offer for three years.

 

[Rebels57]

And he was godawful this year (not even talking about the long shot that went in, he just didn't inspire confidence).

Which is why I say I have no confidence that he's going to steal a game, much less a series, the way Neuvirth almost did. Mason can play very well for stretches, but he also has his down stretches, which is why he's a good goalie, but not an elite goalie. He's like the girl with the curl.

Neuvrith has 12 playoff starts and a .933 save %. Small sample, but that's still pretty impressive - problem is what are the odds he'd stay healthy as a starter.

Which is why they worked well as a pair, Mason is more dependable in the regular season, Neuvrith rested and healthy in the playoffs. But to me, neither is good enough to open up the safe and dole out the big money, long-term deal.

Stopped reading at this point because it was such an asinine statement. Almost every goal he allowed in his 3 starts was on the Powerplay and maybe 2 or 3 were stoppable. He wasnt completely on top of his game but he was worn into the ground down the stretch because of Neuvirth once again getting injured. To say he was "God awful" is crap.

 

[dats81]

Lundqvist is one of the best goalies in the league but despite that is starting to prove that goalies in general aren't worth long term contracts. If he's not worth than not many are if any.

Look at Holtby he was on the younger side & Washington still fought with him over term. They ended up signing him for 5 years at $6.1M AVV. That's about the max I would go with an elite goalie.

For a guy like Mason I'm fine offering a $5.5M offer for three years.

I fully back that.

A cap hit above 5M or term longer than 3-4 years should be reserved for Vezina calibre goalies. It's too much of a gamble and most of the times will come back to bite you.

 

[Larry44]

Stopped reading at this point because it was such an asinine statement. Almost every goal he allowed in his 3 starts was on the Powerplay and maybe 1 or 2 were stoppable. He was completely on top of his game but he was worn into the ground down the stretch because of Neuvirth once again getting injured. To say he was "God awful" is crap.

And to ignore Mason's prolonged excellence down the stretch would be silly too. Without a backup, and while clearly nursing a minor groin or knee injury, he got them in the playoffs.

 

[Curufinwe]

I certainly don't want Hextall to sign Mason to 5 x $5.5m today. Let's see how this season plays out with all four goalies who all need new contracts for 16-17, and make a decision in January or February.

But the way some people use two bad games against Washington to say Mason can never be a goalie who wins playoff series is ludicrous.

 

[deadhead]

Has anyone argued that Mason isn't a good goalie?

But his career has been up and down, and even last season was a mirror of his career, that's why I call him "the girl with the curl", when she was good, she was very good, when she was bad, she was awful.

But there's a big jump from good to elite. And at his age, Mason is unlikely to take it.
His peers don't think he's anything better than average - find me any ranking of goalies that has him in the top ten in the NHL:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/t...te-injury-carey-price-in-a-league-of-his-own/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2016/04/13/stanley-cup-playoffs-goalies-ranking/82993260/

 

[SpookyHockey]

Has anyone argued that Mason isn't a good goalie?

But his career has been up and down, and even last season was a mirror of his career, that's why I call him "the girl with the curl", when she was good, she was very good, when she was bad, she was awful.

But there's a big jump from good to elite. And at his age, Mason is unlikely to take it.
His peers don't think he's anything better than average - find me any ranking of goalies that has him in the top ten in the NHL:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/t...te-injury-carey-price-in-a-league-of-his-own/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2016/04/13/stanley-cup-playoffs-goalies-ranking/82993260/

My thought is that you don't need an elite goalie to win the Cup. Of course, it's nice to have one, but it seems like you can do it as long as you have a goalie that can keep you in games.

As for the THN list, it seems pretty flawed. Ryan Miller, Antti Niemi, Sergei Bobrovsky, Jake Allen and Michael Hutchinson are all too high.

Also, Cory Schneider at 14th is laughable.

 

[Curufinwe]

Mason is 8th equal in SV% over the past three seasons.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...g&aggregate=1&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,50&pos=G

That's a much better ranking than one which has MAF 5th or 6th. And Mike Smith in the top 10 is a joke.

 

[renberg]

One major problem for the goalies is who is playing in front of them. For the past few years, the defensemen have been pretty bad and left the goalies playing under siege. IDK how good any of these goalies are/can be until Provorov, Sanheim, Morin, et al come up and replace the dregs that are currently on the blue line. If Mason or Neuvirth's play doesn't improve behind MDZ, Ghost,Gudas and the youngsters, there is a big problem here

 

[baudib1]

I really hope we don't take a goalie in the first three rounds over the next two years at least.

I guess I'm the only one, but it really annoys me. In 2020 when Carter Hart is the No. 2 goalie at LHV (behind Sandstrom?) and our NHL goalies are 2 23-27 year-olds (Lyon, Stolarz?) how much will he be worth?

We got Mason and Neuvy combined for less than a No. 2 pick.

 

[Hiesenberg]

I really hope we don't take a goalie in the first three rounds over the next two years at least.

I guess I'm the only one, but it really annoys me. In 2020 when Carter Hart is the No. 2 goalie at LHV (behind Sandstrom?) and our NHL goalies are 2 23-27 year-olds (Lyon, Stolarz?) how much will he be worth?

We got Mason and Neuvy combined for less than a No. 2 pick.

You can always trade. Goalies can fetch a pretty good amount.

 

[Tripod]

I really hope we don't take a goalie in the first three rounds over the next two years at least.

I guess I'm the only one, but it really annoys me. In 2020 when Carter Hart is the No. 2 goalie at LHV (behind Sandstrom?) and our NHL goalies are 2 23-27 year-olds (Lyon, Stolarz?) how much will he be worth?

We got Mason and Neuvy combined for less than a No. 2 pick.

You are not alone.

I too have said that goalies don't increase their value a whole bunch and if they do, you are keeping them. And at any tine, if you need a goalie, you can spend a 2nd rounder and get a goalie.

But on the flip side, you will rarely get an elite goalie without drafting him. It can happen...see Schneider, but it is rare. And it costs more than a 2nd, 3rd, etc...

It's hard to argue against picking the best goalie of the draft like we did with Hart. Especially when it's your 3rd pick of the draft. But given how many G prospects we do have right now, we can take a year off without adding one next year.

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't mind taking a goalie every year if they have more than 7 picks. You can keep them in the minors so long without worrying about waivers that it's hard to have too many of them.

If we had taken a decent CHL goalie prospect in 2011 or 2013 the awful LaBarbera experiment wouldn't have happened.

 

[Tripod]

I don't mind taking a goalie every year if they have more than 7 picks. You can keep them in the minors so long without worrying about waivers that it's hard to have too many of them.

If we had taken a decent CHL goalie prospect in 2011 or 2013 the awful LaBarbera experiment wouldn't have happened.

But with who we have and how many, I would rather skip a year and go for a homerun pick at forward. Then pick one again in 2018.

 

[Curufinwe]

They have two 3rds and two 4ths in 2017 so I won't be mad if one of them is a goalie.