Hextall's moves

[Garbage Goal]

Hextall hasn't been up against much pressure or pushback yet as the Flyers GM. He clearly made his case to run things his way and patience is at the center of his argument, and I agree with it; for now. I am curious to see how he acts in a few seasons if things aren't panning out, or if he has increasing pressure on him to produce a deep playoff running type of team.

Right now everything looks peachy because there's so much potential, however I think it would be prudent to believe that not all of these fancy shiny looking D prospects will pan out. Because that's all they are at this point. I do look forward to seeing how he acts or reacts to some adversity and having a microscope put on the decisions he has to make.

I never said why I have faith in Hextall and I definitely never said it was just because of good drafting.

 

[deadhead]

The decline rate for top offensive players is pretty gradual, so I think you can expect 4-5 more years of solid production from G & V, and the combination of better (offensive) defensemen and better forward depth should extend their shelf lives, i.e., decline can come from less production per minute as top players are overused, or from less minutes but maintaining close to peak productivity.

 

[deadhead]

I have faith in Hextall for three reasons:
1) he has a coherent vision of what he wants to accomplish
2) he's patient, doesn't panic, doesn't give in to pressure to win now or promote a "hot" young prospect
3) he obviously recognizes, hires and promotes good people, Flyer's scouting seems to be excellent, it was good before him but has improved since his arrival.

The trades reflect his patience, Hextall has a good feel for value, and doesn't pull the trigger early. It's not that he's ripping people off left and right, but he consistently obtains value, and is content to make "retail" trades instead of "wholesale" (blockbuster deals), that accumulate value over time.

 

[Tripod]

Honestly, Hextall could do 2-3 moves and we could be a contender quite quickly. I do think a move will be made next year between seasons end, and the 2017/18 season.

Expansion could shake loose someone who might not otherwise be available.

We have lots of assets now that we can move if Hextall feels the time is right. And in 2017/18, it could be the year to try and trade AMac even if we have to add a pick.

Trading AMac and Read frees up 8.6 million that can be spent on an impact player and a good depth guy. But in the end, a lot will depend on how all the kids develop. But this coming year is the last of waiting. The following year we could have an onslaught of talent.

I only wish Simmonds had another 1-2 years on his deal as he will becoming a UFA right when we are contending.

 

[Chicken Chaser]

^^^ good points about expansion throwing a wrench into the whole equation.

I don't doubt Hexy's process yet, but it is easy to view the new thing as the next best thing. Paul Holmgren did some great things initially as a GM and fleeced a team or two with trades, then it all went south with the contracts he had or hadn't have to give to people.

I'm cautiously optimistic, as this is relatively new territory as a Flyers fan, in waiting for winning to come for several seasons. The problem I have with it is that i'm also a GB Packers fan, and I have the privilege (or horror depending who you listen to) of watching a GM vehemently trust draft and develop in the face of having a generational player at one of the premium positions in the sport.

I see Claude as that type of player, and over the past 3-5 years he's proven as much statistically. There will be a fall off inevitably before the kids get up to speed.

 

[tymed]

I have to disagree with you there.

Jake is not one-dimensional. He works about as hard in all three zones as any top 6 winger in the league. Looking at the other RW's getting paid in his price range...

-Kane
-Perry
-Kessel
-Tarasenko

...and none of them are as good in all three zones as Jake

To be honest, I was hoping he would get paid in the $7.5 range but i'm not going to make a big deal over the extra $750K considering he was coming off of a season where he was voted as an NHL First Team All-Star..in other words, he was the best RW in the NHL in 2014-2015.

You quoted and bolded the part about being elite goal scorers, disagreed, thn listed exactly the guys I was referring to.... I'm not really sure what to say back there, that was exactly my point. I'd have taken any of these guys in their prime to pair with Giroux over Jake in the price range, except maybe Kessel but that's another overpaid player. Again, guys in that price range should be 2-way standouts (who penalty kill) or reliable goal scorers. I'm not meaning to take anything away from Jake, whose been one of my favorite players since before arriving in Philly.I value everything he brings, just not at 8+.

 

[baudib1]

^^^ good points about expansion throwing a wrench into the whole equation.

I don't doubt Hexy's process yet, but it is easy to view the new thing as the next best thing. Paul Holmgren did some great things initially as a GM and fleeced a team or two with trades, then it all went south with the contracts he had or hadn't have to give to people.

I'm cautiously optimistic, as this is relatively new territory as a Flyers fan, in waiting for winning to come for several seasons. The problem I have with it is that i'm also a GB Packers fan, and I have the privilege (or horror depending who you listen to) of watching a GM vehemently trust draft and develop in the face of having a generational player at one of the premium positions in the sport.

I see Claude as that type of player, and over the past 3-5 years he's proven as much statistically. There will be a fall off inevitably before the kids get up to speed.

There was a panic I felt as an Eagles fan as the Andy Reid era started to wind down.

We had a once in a lifetime player in Brian Dawkins who is both a Hall of Famer and true leader/franchise player who was the heart and soul of the team, plus several other cornerstones like McNabb, Tra Thomas, Westbrook, who were reaching the end and it became clear that the team was not going to win a Super Bowl with that core.

********************

I don't think the Holmgren era will be remembered that fondly, but one thing to keep in mind is that there were things he had no control over that really hurt him.

1. The Flyers were screwed by lottery luck. If they get No. 1 and Patrick Kane, his tenure probably looks quite a bit different, without even getting into Butterfly Effect stuff involving the SCF. You can't criticize the JVR pick really. The real issue is that picks 2-5 that year were exceptionally weak. Sitting at No. 2 in 2004 would get you Malkin. In 2005, it's Bobby Ryan. In 2006 you can take Staal or Toews. In 2008 there's Drew Doughty. JVR is one of the worst No.2 picks of the decade.

Homer did manage to pick up probably the 2nd-best player of that first round -- Jake Voracek.

2. The Pronger concussion probably cost the Flyers several seasons of competing for the SC.

Now, Homer's reaction to the Pronger injury wasn't great, but not many GMs can adequately respond to losing that type of player. Without Pronger getting hurt, we probably don't have the panic moves of Grossmann, Schenn, MacDonald.

 

[Tripod]

^^^^ and to add, he did try to get Suter and Weber to try and win it all instead of those fallback options.

The one difference I see is that Hextall is building up all the assets and depth FIRST, before making any big moves. He is making sure the pipeline is nice and full so that when he becomes a buyer, he has plenty of different assets to use to fill a hole or 2. With Holmgren, it was all out FA which are typically more expensive.

Hextall will make a move when he feels we are ready. Who knows, if Laughton and Cousins did take the next step this coming year, all the sudden our 3rd line could be good and our forward group looks totally different.

And if that happens, making better use of capspace could make a big difference. But who knows, maybe Hextall can convince LV to take AMac.

That's why I see 2017 as the summer for a big move. Expansion will be over. The first group of kids on D and F will be hitting the team. And it still gives 2 years before Simmonds is possibly gone.

No one saw Pitt going on a run when the had AHLers just called up, adding Schultz and Daley to their defense, and Fleury getting hurt.

Sometimes things come together quickly.

 

[Larry44]

^^^^ and to add, he did try to get Suter and Weber to try and win it all instead of those fallback options.

The one difference I see is that Hextall is building up all the assets and depth FIRST, before making any big moves. He is making sure the pipeline is nice and full so that when he becomes a buyer, he has plenty of different assets to use to fill a hole or 2. With Holmgren, it was all out FA which are typically more expensive.

Hextall will make a move when he feels we are ready. Who knows, if Laughton and Cousins did take the next step this coming year, all the sudden our 3rd line could be good and our forward group looks totally different.

And if that happens, making better use of capspace could make a big difference. But who knows, maybe Hextall can convince LV to take AMac.

That's why I see 2017 as the summer for a big move. Expansion will be over. The first group of kids on D and F will be hitting the team. And it still gives 2 years before Simmonds is possibly gone.

No one saw Pitt going on a run when the had AHLers just called up, adding Schultz and Daley to their defense, and Fleury getting hurt.

Sometimes things come together quickly.

I give Homer credit for putting together the D of Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle that got us in the Finals. The problem was we didn't have an NHL calibre goalie and no D depth so guys like Krajicek had to be run out their in the 3rd pairing and couldn't handle 2 minutes/game.

When Hexy's team starts to really push, in 2-3 years, they will have the existing depth and all the prospect pool to keep the bottom lines/pair/crease full of good, affordable players instead of scrubs.

 

[Tripod]

I give Homer credit for putting together the D of Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle that got us in the Finals. The problem was we didn't have an NHL calibre goalie and no D depth so guys like Krajicek had to be run out their in the 3rd pairing and couldn't handle 2 minutes/game.

When Hexy's team starts to really push, in 2-3 years, they will have the existing depth and all the prospect pool to keep the bottom lines/pair/crease full of good, affordable players instead of scrubs.

Agreed. I think Hextall will be doing what Chicago does, trading guys looking for big raises and replacing them with cheaper options. Konecny replace Simmonds. Leberge replace Schenn. Myers replace Gudas. Etc...

As I said before, we are now drafting guys to replace guys on the roster. Of course the big issue in the next 2-3 years is finding guys who can replace Giroux and yes Voracek's production assuming he bounces back. Finding guys that can finish top 10 in scoring is not easy.

But With lots of assets at your disposal, Hextall has options. I would not be shocked at all with a few 2-1 deals where we give away a young player and a roster player for an upgrade on the roster. Or trade picks for that upgrade like Pitt did for Kessel.

And because we are building from within, we can trade a guy like Schultz, get a pick for him, and replace him with Morin mid-season and not get worse, but actually get better. It keeps the pipeline re-stocked.

 

[BernieParent]

^^^^ and to add, he did try to get Suter and Weber to try and win it all instead of those fallback options.

The one difference I see is that Hextall is building up all the assets and depth FIRST, before making any big moves. He is making sure the pipeline is nice and full so that when he becomes a buyer, he has plenty of different assets to use to fill a hole or 2. With Holmgren, it was all out FA which are typically more expensive.

Hextall will make a move when he feels we are ready. Who knows, if Laughton and Cousins did take the next step this coming year, all the sudden our 3rd line could be good and our forward group looks totally different.

And if that happens, making better use of capspace could make a big difference. But who knows, maybe Hextall can convince LV to take AMac.

That's why I see 2017 as the summer for a big move. Expansion will be over. The first group of kids on D and F will be hitting the team. And it still gives 2 years before Simmonds is possibly gone.

No one saw Pitt going on a run when the had AHLers just called up, adding Schultz and Daley to their defense, and Fleury getting hurt.

Sometimes things come together quickly.

Even if it's just one of Cousins or Laughton who puts it all together, Hextall has added complementary players who can play up and down the lineup to mix and match.

 

[Rebels57]

I give Homer credit for putting together the D of Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle that got us in the Finals. The problem was we didn't have an NHL calibre goalie and no D depth so guys like Krajicek had to be run out their in the 3rd pairing and couldn't handle 2 minutes/game.

When Hexy's team starts to really push, in 2-3 years, they will have the existing depth and all the prospect pool to keep the bottom lines/pair/crease full of good, affordable players instead of scrubs.

Homer tried to fix the bottom pair after the 09-10 season by bringing in Meszaros and O'Donnell but just our luck, we lose Pronger for good after 13 games.

 

[Curufinwe]

Homer tried to fix the bottom pair after the 09-10 season by bringing in Meszaros and O'Donnell but just our luck, we lose Pronger for good after 13 games.

You're missing a year. In 10-11 we had six solid dmen, but Pronger missed 30 games with a back injury and the team was in a funk by the time the playoffs rolled around. Also, the goalies weren't good enough to be a real contender.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...Type=2&sort=points&aggregate=0&teamId=4&pos=D

It was 11-12 when he suffered the eye injury.

 

[Ruck Over]

I give Homer credit for putting together the D of Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle that got us in the Finals. The problem was we didn't have an NHL calibre goalie and no D depth so guys like Krajicek had to be run out their in the 3rd pairing and couldn't handle 2 minutes/game.

In fairness, we started the season with NHL goalies, and they both got hurt, and we were left with ... how the heck did that puck go in the net???

Hextall has my trust because he has a pro-active plan of building from within instead of adding from outside. The world has changed from the pre-cap willy-nilly free-spending days. That, and that method so seldom works anyway, in any sport (except Basketball).

That and he left Philly for LA, and was there for long enough to be an active participant in seeing them reach the top. The year he left, they reach the top again, that's a level of expertise that has been sorely lacking in this city for a long time (Pat Gillick excepted).

 

[Rebels57]

You're missing a year. In 10-11 we had six solid dmen, but Pronger missed 30 games with a back injury and the team was in a funk by the time the playoffs rolled around. Also, the goalies weren't good enough to be a real contender.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...Type=2&sort=points&aggregate=0&teamId=4&pos=D

It was 11-12 when he suffered the eye injury.

Ahh yes. Thank you sir.

 

[Return of the Jetdi]

Might be a bit late to the party but

I was ecstatic when every team passed up on Konecny, and really thought the Jets would draft him with our 2nd 1st rounder. Then the Flyers (traded up?) drafted him right before Winnipeg's pick, and I cringed a bit on the inside. Feelings aside, that was a great pick, Konecny's going to be a stud player one day.

Good job Hextall!

 

[Rebels57]

Might be a bit late to the party but

I was ecstatic when every team passed up on Konecny, and really thought the Jets would draft him with our 2nd 1st rounder. Then the Flyers (traded up?) drafted him right before Winnipeg's pick, and I cringed a bit on the inside. Feelings aside, that was a great pick, Konecny's going to be a stud player one day.

Good job Hextall!

Yeah the Flyers traded up using pick 29 acquired from Tampa Bay in the Braydon Coburn trade and pick 60, acquired from Chicago in the Kimmo Timonen trade.

 

[deadhead]

Homer had money to spend without a cap constraining him - once the cap set in, he simply didn't know how to build a team when he couldn't outspend his peers.

Hextall is comfortable in a salary cap world, he understands the value of young talent is both their fresh legs and low salaries. So he values both scouts and draft picks much higher than Homer ever did - he drafts for talent, not roles, and fills the back end with low cost free agents (i.e. draft for upside, fill with street free agents).

 

[Curufinwe]

Holmgren didn't become GM of the Flyers till October, 2006, when a cap was already in place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Philadelphia_Flyers_general_managers

His previous GM job was in Hartford in the 90s, and he was most definitely not outspending his rivals there.

 

[YEM]

I can only assume that deadhead probably meant Clarke

 

[BackWithaVengeance]

Sry but I had to do it.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Glorious... maybe thats the whiskey talking.

 

[Sawdalite]

Sry but I had to do it.

I have to point out that among the three latest Flyers GMs, there is a striking and remarkable difference between the manner in which Hexy played his entire career and the manner in which he manages his team... and the manner both Clarke and Homer played and managed... It is like day and night the blazing fire Hexy had between the pipes and the measured calmness he has from the front office -- albeit he was a completely different person in interviews in his playing days, much more as he is as a GM -- Clarke was an agitator and 100% verbal leader who set his sights and was hell bent on accomplishing what he set out doing... with a choirboy smile but an impish gleam in his eye to go along with his deadly stick-work... 'he was in your face' at all times and let everybody know it.

Homer was a bright hardworking player with more drive and work ethic than exceptional talent... like the other two he bled O&B and was 100% a company man on the ice and in the front office... he was innovative as much as he could be during a very changing period in the NHL, with the Cap and attitude shift towards players that did Clarkie in.

Hexy was and is more complicated in many ways... while he left everything on the ice, he battled the Organization tooth and nail on his contracts; he clearly had his sights set on what he wanted, and where he wanted to go with his career... On the ice he let his feelings be known 100% and didn't weigh the results in the process... he used his stick as he saw fit at the moment and attacked any player that rubbed him the wrong way, or took advantage of his teammates... He was very capable with his stick in puck handling... and at times a tad too risky. GM Hextall is IMO the polar opposite to the Player Hextall, but I believe with the same passion... just with a measured and well thought out approach which is much better suited to his new position... never getting in peoples faces as Clarke liked to do... never gambling daringly for instant results and a better chance for the present year's Cup like both Clarke and Homer were want to do -- things that may well have been demanded from the Organization every Season -- Hexy is the Flyers third GM in the 'New' NHL, but the first real Flyers GM of the Cap Era, the Business driven NHL... He was a Player born for the Old NHL but a GM groomed for the New NHL.

I always loved the Goalie Hextall... and I'm learning to have faith in GM Hextall... but in the back of my mind I'm still waiting for him to body slam another GM.


(Sorry for the length of this post... I got on a roll and couldn't stop.)

 

[Ruck Over]

Sry but I had to do it.

You are a bad person and should feel bad for sharing that video. The Puff Daddy cover of Zepplin's "Come with Me" is toxic ear noise. Some of my soul has died, and i'm now a tad color blind, seeing the Y G BIV colors of the spectrum now.

While you didn't create the video (did you?), you shared it. Heaven help whomever thought the music selected was a good idea.

 

[BackWithaVengeance]

You are a bad person and should feel bad for sharing that video. The Puff Daddy cover of Zepplin's "Come with Me" is toxic ear noise. Some of my soul has died, and i'm now a tad color blind, seeing the Y G BIV colors of the spectrum now.

While you didn't create the video (did you?), you shared it. Heaven help whomever thought the music selected was a good idea.

no I didn't.