News Article: Hextall Will Use Analytics to Evaluate Players

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
187,138
39,150
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1156367

Here's some good ones:





It turned out to be a year shorter, too. ;)






So clearly at one point you thought Grossmann was, in fact, a good player, GKJ. Don't act like you saw his poor play coming from a mile away.

And people need to stop acting like his poor play will continue indefinitely. He had a really bad year, but he can still be a good player.

And I was wrong. Pretty simple. Hopefully it's still a moveable contract.
 

BillDineen

Former Flyer / Extinct Dinosaur Advisor
Aug 9, 2009
9,375
8,101
From AskChief:

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=720815

@NHLFlyers you mentioned analytics will be key to the team moving forward, can you elaborate at all? #askchief

"There are a lot of stats out there that are very helpful and we have people working for us that break these games down and give us some real good information on puck-possession and how much time we’re spending in our own end, how much time we’re spending in the neutral zone and things like that. It really helps us improve and get better."
 

MadFerIt95*

Guest
From AskChief:

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=720815

@NHLFlyers you mentioned analytics will be key to the team moving forward, can you elaborate at all? #askchief

"There are a lot of stats out there that are very helpful and we have people working for us that break these games down and give us some real good information on puck-possession and how much time we’re spending in our own end, how much time we’re spending in the neutral zone and things like that. It really helps us improve and get better."

The most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my life
 

Bryz4shiz

Registered User
Feb 10, 2009
3,016
0
Alhoa Oe
From AskChief:

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=720815

@NHLFlyers you mentioned analytics will be key to the team moving forward, can you elaborate at all? #askchief

"There are a lot of stats out there that are very helpful and we have people working for us that break these games down and give us some real good information on puck-possession and how much time we’re spending in our own end, how much time we’re spending in the neutral zone and things like that. It really helps us improve and get better."

He must really use those stats to evaluate players. That must be why he played Grosmann over Gus!
 

Embiid

Off IR for now
May 27, 2010
32,684
21,006
Philadelphia
If they kept stats on Bryz..I want them declassified!

Also, I would like to see Emery's stats with respect to his goals to lack of lateral movement ratio...:sarcasm:
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
187,138
39,150
What he didn't say is what they do with the information. Only that they have it. These guys read all of Eric Tulsky's stuff, too. You wouldn't think so given what they do with the information he mines.
 

The Rage Kage

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
6,245
5,083
Yah our 2018 cup run with

Virtanen-Giroux-Simmonds
XXXXX-Schenn-Voracek
XXXXX-Couturier-Read
XXXXX-Laughton-XXXXX

Morin-Ghost
Hagg-XXXXX
Macdonald-XXXXX

Just dreaming though
 

dats81

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
5,670
1,597
Carinthia, AUT
Yah our 2018 cup run with

Virtanen-Giroux-Simmonds
XXXXX-Schenn-Voracek
XXXXX-Couturier-Read
XXXXX-Laughton-XXXXX

Morin-Ghost
Hagg-XXXXX
Macdonald-XXXXX

Just dreaming though

If Laughton does not amount to more than a 4th liner 4 years from now, I'd be a little disappointed.

Taylor Leier or Michal Raffl could be solid wingers on that line though.
 

Bryz4shiz

Registered User
Feb 10, 2009
3,016
0
Alhoa Oe
If Laughton does not amount to more than a 4th liner 4 years from now, I'd be a little disappointed.

Taylor Leier or Michal Raffl could be solid wingers on that line though.

Eh, potentially that just means we have insane center depth like the Kings.
 

The Rage Kage

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
6,245
5,083
If he is way to good for fourth line then we can move schenn and promote him, let him an couturier fight for second line
 

tuckrr

Registered User
Nov 28, 2008
2,761
4
Remember the article that came out that Grossmann spends more time in the defensive zone than anyone? The title was something along the lines of "Grossmann content in own zone"

That's when HF lost it on him, because his Corsi and Off/Def zone finishes were poor.

Just remember HF, analytics doesn't just mean Corsi & Off/Def zones. Its heat maps, more advanced stats, and organization counters of takeaways/giveaways!
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
187,138
39,150
Just remember HF, analytics doesn't just mean Corsi & Off/Def zones. Its heat maps, more advanced stats, and organization counters of takeaways/giveaways!

Most that that data is available for public consumption.


Bnwl-wbCAAA9vou.jpg


(ignore the point the chart maker is trying to make for a moment)
 

BillDineen

Former Flyer / Extinct Dinosaur Advisor
Aug 9, 2009
9,375
8,101
From 30 thoughts:

"5. Rutherford mentioned analytics in his media conference. There is one stat we've talked about before: each player's scoring chances for and against in what he calls "The Red Zone" (Put a home-plate sized shape on the goal-line that goes as wide as the face-off dots before closing at the top of the slot and you'll understand what he means). He likes that one, but might have to change the colour moving from Carolina to Pittsburgh."

This is what I think most if not all teams keep. I would imagine that it we be a sounder base looking at shot attempt differentials in the "red zone" rather than all shot attempts.
 

tuckrr

Registered User
Nov 28, 2008
2,761
4
Most that that data is available for public consumption.


Bnwl-wbCAAA9vou.jpg


(ignore the point the chart maker is trying to make for a moment)

No it's not. Team specific data is where a ton of money goes and kept internal.
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
187,138
39,150
No it's not. Team specific data is where a ton of money goes and kept internal.

That doesn't mean someone else can't mine the same data. Someone just has to be willing to do it.
 

Random Forest

Registered User
May 12, 2010
14,452
994
That doesn't mean someone else can't mine the same data. Someone just has to be willing to do it.

It's more than just data mining. Guys like Tulsky wouldn't be consulting with NHL teams if he was just tracking chances and blocks all day long. The real, heavy work being done by and for NHL teams is definitely not for public consumption yet. That stuff is proprietary.
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
187,138
39,150
It's more than just data mining. Guys like Tulsky wouldn't be consulting with NHL teams if he was just tracking chances and blocks all day long. The real, heavy work being done by and for NHL teams is definitely not for public consumption yet. That stuff is proprietary.

I'm sure some of it is, but most of the mystery is in what is actually used and how much. Otherwise, there are readily available data that has very solid predictive value, which is why Tulsky was telling people to go to Vegas on the Kings in '12 when they were life and death just to get into the playoffs.
 

tuckrr

Registered User
Nov 28, 2008
2,761
4
That doesn't mean someone else can't mine the same data. Someone just has to be willing to do it.

Who else is going to spend tens of millions on data each year that ISN'T a club? There's also a big gap between the big clubs and Phoenix for example.

And let's not forget all the international leagues that need constant analysis as well.
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
187,138
39,150
Who else is going to spend tens of millions on data each year that ISN'T a club? There's also a big gap between the big clubs and Phoenix for example.

And let's not forget all the international leagues that need constant analysis as well.

On the internet? Nobody, I'm sure.
 

dingbathero

No Jam? How about PB
Jul 14, 2010
7,492
1,286
St. John's, NL
Just to re-visit this after making a few moves.

How do the new bodies fare in relation to these advanced stats? ( I assume it will only work for those who have played in the NHL?)
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Advanced statistics have value, but are often crude approximations, for example, just like football, you can't determine the responsibility for an interception without knowing the play, in hockey, how a player fares is both a product of the players around him and his responsibilities.

Teams have better information than outsiders, so can make better use of statistics, because they know the context in which those statistics were created.

One important factor to keep in mind, when a stat is highly variable from year to year with the same player in the same situation, that suggests it may not be measuring anything, that's it's primarily random in nature - the "eyeball test" is just not a check on statistical evaluation of players, it's a check on the statistics themselves.

Unfortunately, too many people think correlation = causation, and ignore "left out variable error," i.e., the equation is underspecified and other factors have resulted in either a spurious correlation or what you're measuring is really the impact of another factor that you haven't identified.

My simple rule is that correlations (or statistics proporting to measure performance) are insufficient, you have to show causality, not just through statistical tests but through a credible "story" that explains the mechanism (or the statistic). Example, do better CORSI numbers mean better play or does certain types of play inflate those numbers?

However, refusing to use statistics is sheer ignorance, more information is better than less information, and a smart executive uses whatever credible information she can obtain to make better decisions.
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
187,138
39,150
Just to re-visit this after making a few moves.

How do the new bodies fare in relation to these advanced stats? ( I assume it will only work for those who have played in the NHL?)

I don't think you can fairly evaluate it because the one trade that was made was in order to get out from a contract sooner, and one new signing is a 7th defenseman. It depends how you look at that trade though, because if you don't see it that way, then it's a bad trade.
 

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