Post-Game Talk: Hellebuyck stones Pens - 1:0 Jets

[Duke749]

I agree the majority of Jets fans think Stu >>> Toby strait up.

Canadian hockey fans are really passionate but honestly I don't think they are all that sharp. Buddies of mine tend to overvalue toughness, character, hitting, fighting, and shot blocking. That sets up a viewer bias where they love guys like Stu or Thor. They really under value the ability to retrieve pucks, make clean passes, defend, apply gap control, and move the puck.

Toby drives these guys nuts.

Sigh

Did you see the play against Malkin in the 3on1? A thing of beauty.

Wait......You think Andrew Ladd has been over paid on this last contract?

Yikes!

 

[surixon]

Wait......You think Andrew Ladd has been over paid on this last contract?

He's been on a pretty sweet contract his entire time here. He likely wont be worth what he wants now though.

 

[White Out 403*]

I think I def jumped the gun saying overpaid .... I should have said that in the context of what he wants. He's had a bad year but previous years he's certainly been worth the cash. I just don't think he's a captain you win with. Or even captain material. His excuse making in the media and his sniveling whiney attitude with the media really turn me off.

 

[Duke749]

Ladd has had a bad year. I don't think anyone will argue that.

As far as the captain stuff, all we can do is speculate. No sense in really arguing it or debating it because of that. I wouldn't be opposed to him being traded and a new captain named eventually though.

 

[leer2006]

I think I def jumped the gun saying overpaid .... I should have said that in the context of what he wants. He's had a bad year but previous years he's certainly been worth the cash. I just don't think he's a captain you win with. Or even captain material. His excuse making in the media and his sniveling whiney attitude with the media really turn me off.

For me it's his body language on the ice. He made a pass in the middle of the 1st period to Burmy. Burmy couldnt coral it. He skated off the ice shoulders down shaking his head. Dont know if he is mad at himself or his teammate. He is looking really frustrated right now.

 

[Whileee]

For me it's his body language on the ice. He made a pass in the middle of the 1st period to Burmy. Burmy couldnt coral it. He skated off the ice shoulders down shaking his head. Dont know if he is mad at himself or his teammate. He is looking really frustrated right now.

Did he shake his head after he fired a pass into a teammate's skates resulting in the loss of the zone on the PP? How about when he rifled a shot directly into the D's shin-pads resulting in an odd-man break the other way?

I have no patience for Ladd if he's annoyed with other players when you consider all of the plays that he botches.

 

[White Out 403*]

Ladd has had a bad year. I don't think anyone will argue that.

As far as the captain stuff, all we can do is speculate. No sense in really arguing it or debating it because of that. I wouldn't be opposed to him being traded and a new captain named eventually though.

I'd like to see Ladd traded and Wheeler made our captain. His body language and effort is always the benchmark for our team. He's not only a ra-ra kind of guy, but also brings it. Unlike our whiney little ***** of a captain.

 

[ps241]

I think I def jumped the gun saying overpaid .... I should have said that in the context of what he wants. He's had a bad year but previous years he's certainly been worth the cash. I just don't think he's a captain you win with. Or even captain material. His excuse making in the media and his sniveling whiney attitude with the media really turn me off.

In the context of what he wants the next contract scares me and I am a Ladd fan.

 

[Derfel*]

Did he shake his head after he fired a pass into a teammate's skates resulting in the loss of the zone on the PP? How about when he rifled a shot directly into the D's shin-pads resulting in an odd-man break the other way?

I have no patience for Ladd if he's annoyed with other players when you consider all of the plays that he botches.

Yes, because he's the only player to have 3-4 missed passes in a game.

 

[Gil Fisher]

i think ladd has been ripped pretty brutally lately, and unfairly. But I did not think he played very well yesterday.

I agree with this. Even in ripping him like I did in this thread, I like him and think he can be a useful player for the club. But if the Jets haven't pulled their last offer to him, they should. Watching the game with family last night, they swore he was injured. I'm not sure the hernia surgery just doesn't severely weaken the core. At his age, it might be difficult to get back to the pre-hernia Ladd.

 

[JetsFan815]

So the Jets won last night and instead of celebrating some have taken the opportunity to turn this into a bash Ladd thread For what it's worth Ladd was solid yesterday, not great, just very solid

 

[Whileee]

Yes, because he's the only player to have 3-4 missed passes in a game.

He's not, but he made a lot of bad plays last night, and not that many good ones. My point was that if we was visibly annoyed with Burmi for that one play, then I'm not impressed with his attitude, since he makes his own fair share of bad plays.

Ladd has played almost all of his hockey with Little and Wheeler, but isn't close to them in terms of effectiveness on the ice.

 

[Aavco Cup]

So the Jets won last night and instead of celebrating some have taken the opportunity to turn this into a bash Ladd thread For what it's worth Ladd was solid yesterday, not great, just very solid

You obviously didn't get the HF memo.....you must bash Ladd at every opportunity. I agree he did not play a great game, but he was not terrible either. He held his own out there.

 

[JetsFan815]

Canadian hockey fans are really passionate but honestly I don't think they are all that sharp. Buddies of mine tend to overvalue toughness, character, hitting, fighting, and shot blocking. That sets up a viewer bias where they love guys like Stu or Thor. They really under value the ability to retrieve pucks, make clean passes, defend, apply gap control, and move the puck.

This. 100%. Most people who go watch games at the MTS Centre don't understand what good hockey is. My experience has been the same as yours. In addition to what you said, these people, let's call them "hockey mouthbreathers" also tend to put a great deal of emphasis on the +/- stat, they also tend to think that any player who is a "good guy" in real life and a "good community guy" is automatically a good player on ice. They can't seem to separate the players' off-ice persona from the on-ice player.

 

[winnipegger]

The problem I have is his minutes tend to be based on reputation and not play. I don't think he's been playing well enough to justify 20 mins a night. Completely fine with him playing 15 mins in a largely defensive role, because he still has his positional smarts that will never leave. However, his dynamism and decision making offensively is noticeably bad.

 

[Whileee]

So the Jets won last night and instead of celebrating some have taken the opportunity to turn this into a bash Ladd thread For what it's worth Ladd was solid yesterday, not great, just very solid

Post-game analysis usually includes positives and negatives, in both wins and losses. Some critiqued Ladd after the game, and others disagreed. That's how any debate gets started. Personally, I thought most of the Jets played pretty well but I wasn't impressed with Ladd's play.

I have no idea why Maurice gave him considerably more ice-time than any other forward - more than 2 minutes more than either Little or Wheeler.

 

[Whileee]

You obviously didn't get the HF memo.....you must bash Ladd at every opportunity. I agree he did not play a great game, but he was not terrible either. He held his own out there.

Do you think he merited >20 minutes of ice-time, more than 2 extra minutes compared to Little and Wheeler, and almost 5 minutes more than Perreault?

 

[Derfel*]

You obviously didn't get the HF memo.....you must bash Ladd at every opportunity. I agree he did not play a great game, but he was not terrible either. He held his own out there.

Exactly - but the bar just seems to be higher for him lately, I guess.

9 goals and 12 assists is low for him this deep in the season, right?

 

[Aavco Cup]

Exactly - but the bar just seems to be higher for him lately, I guess.

9 goals and 12 assists is low for him this deep in the season, right?

That seems like all people care about. Goals and assists. I think there's more to hockey than that. I always thought Ladd got too much credit in previous years and he is getting too much criticism this year.

 

[Derfel*]

That seems like all people care about. Goals and assists. I think there's more to hockey than that. I always thought Ladd got too much credit in previous years and he is getting too much criticism this year.

I also agree there is more to hockey than that - leadership, taking hits, blocking shots, giving hits, etc. Ladd is having a slow year for some of that (and point production compared to previous seasons) but he isn't at all the tire fire people are making him out to be.

The fact that he's getting ice time, that he was punished for a bad penalty and admitted it, and that his teammates seem to support him tells me that the team and Maurice are okay with Ladd right now.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Do you think he merited >20 minutes of ice-time, more than 2 extra minutes compared to Little and Wheeler, and almost 5 minutes more than Perreault?

Well since the Penguins played Malkin quite a bit I can see how it happened. Maurice is a matcher.

 

[Gil Fisher]

So the Jets won last night and instead of celebrating some have taken the opportunity to turn this into a bash Ladd thread For what it's worth Ladd was solid yesterday, not great, just very solid

you won't find me bashing after losses and praising after wins. that's mostly luck in any single game. more interested in the play of the team overall. it's been good for a month now. last night we were the better team and deserved to win, but Ladd was frustrating and I felt it needed to be said after smerd's comment.

 

[DK59]

He's not, but he made a lot of bad plays last night, and not that many good ones. My point was that if we was visibly annoyed with Burmi for that one play, then I'm not impressed with his attitude, since he makes his own fair share of bad plays.

Ladd has played almost all of his hockey with Little and Wheeler, but isn't close to them in terms of effectiveness on the ice.

I completely agree with you. I watched him closely last night and there was very little in his game that impressed me. As you said the the top guys on our first line are without question Little and Wheeler.

I still think Ladd can be a valuable player on this team going forward but the contract value he is seeking really does concern me because right now he is nowhere close to the best forward on this team and if his contract demands are met he will get paid like he is.

 

[robertocarlos]

Ladd has been underpaid. He's probably pissed off because he knows he won't be over-paid to make up for the last contract.

I watched more than 20 minutes of the game and Ladd was good.

You could have Wheeler out there on a line on his own. He was a beast. He owns the puck and just walks around the D.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Regarding the whole "bash Ladd" thing - there's nothing I'd like more than for Ladd to regain his former level of performance. I've always really liked Ladd, both as a captain and a player. It actually makes me sad to critique his play, and advocate for trading him.

But he truly is much worse this year. And, to me, he did not have a good game yesterday. It was certainly a bad game if the bar is set to "pre-2015 Ladd".

People are talking about Ladd because his contract is the most important GM decision that will be made this year (perhaps along with Buff). It also signifies something greater - whether we are sticking with the older core, or rebuilding around the younger. Add to that Ladd's own statement (yesterday?) to Lawless about an impending signing or trade, and of course people are talking about him.

I understand that it can be frustrating to see people bash a player you like, or believe is playing well. But if you are not interested in these types of conversations, and would prefer only to cheer and celebrate after a win, there are no shortage of other places and people to do that with.

That seems like all people care about. Goals and assists. I think there's more to hockey than that. I always thought Ladd got too much credit in previous years and he is getting too much criticism this year.

Strange.

I see this the opposite way. I think Ladd's points this year far exceed his contributions in other areas (e.g. defensive play, forechecking, work along the boards). I would suggest that if someone were to only consider his goals and assists, they would have an inflated view of his performance this year, not the other way around.