GDT: Hawks vs Rags - 7:30CDT - NSCH - Do you smell what the Hawks are cooking????

[ChiHawks10]

sooo speculation

Sorry, you found one very minor speculative thing on my part, in a sea of facts. And not even just wild, rampant speculation, but speculation with proven history to back it up... If you want to count that as a win for yourself, be my guest.

 

[piteus]

Watch when Forsling and Murphy come back. One of them will regularly be scratched for ****ing Manning. I guarantee it. Or Rutta will be, and he's at least better than Manning.

I can deal with Rutta in a limited role. I'm done with Manning. When Forsling or Murphy comes back, we only take Manning out of the press box when we need to drop the gloves.

 

[x Tame Impala]

While that may have been your plan or the plan of others on here, nothing the Hawks did suggested that the plan was to be bad again. The coach and GM are both on the hot seat and the organization wasn't going to be ok with losing. Last year was a year from hell where they were playing AHL goal tending for 3/4 of the season. With all that, they finished 7th lowest record. The idea that they were going to burn it down completely was never a realistic option.

This idea that you have to either be guaranteed to win a cup or you need to be the worst team in the league is such BS. There's a middle ground. Development and team success aren't mutually exclusive.

Two years in a row of 1st round exits, one of which was a pathetic and embarrassing sweep, then the next season the Hawks drafted 8th overall. The off-season response to three years of disappointments was to sign Kunitz and Manning. I can't say for certain that the FO's plan was to be bad for one more year but it's definitely not too much of a logical leap to think that's the case.

Personally I was fine with that as a Hawks fan. I can accept the suckage if it's suckage with direction and purpose. I'd much prefer that over being a bubble team that makes a meaningless appearance in the playoffs. IMHO the worst thing that could happen to the Toews and Kane era Hawks would be to linger around in mediocrity for years. You're not winning Cups but also not really improving your roster long term with high end draft picks.

So yeah, based on the roster and coaching staff my (IMO reasonable) expectation for this year was to be really bad. It's still early and we're still missing Murphy+Forsling but I don't think the Hawks are a great team and making any sort of Fleishchman/Weiss/Vermette/Oduya trade deadline moves would be a huge, HUGE waste of assets. I really hope the Front Office and ownership don't get shortsighted and give up pieces for an empty playoff run. That's all. The team is too good now with a healthy Crawford to bottom out but I don't think anyone can make a legitimate claim the Hawks are a Cup contender.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I can deal with Rutta in a limited role. I'm done with Manning. When Forsling or Murphy comes back, we only take Manning out of the press box when we need to drop the gloves.

He was quoting me with this, btw.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

That’s not true. Signing Ward for 3M when you have needs on defense and at forward doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Bowman didn’t know what he had in Toews and Crawford so he played it conservative and kept his options open.

Now that those two are back in a big way, it gives us a chance at the playoffs but I still don’t think we should make any big moves to strengthen the roster.

Knowing what we know now, yeah, we should have signed someone like Riley Nash or Tyler Bozak or Calvin DeHaan but to trade assets now would be foolish IMO.

Just play out the season, let the young guys make their way up in the second half and then we can make a big push in the offseason.

I'm not saying I liked the Ward signing, I didn't. But signing a veteran backup to high money isn't the sign of a team tanking or not trying to win. The season went off the rails last year when Crow got hurt and they decided to address it. Ward isn't the guy I would have chosen for sure. I agree I would have rather have signed a defenseman personally.

The biggest disconnect between the fans on hears expectations before the season vs the reality of this year was Crow. So many people had made up their mind that Crow was done for good and if he came back we'd be lucky if we got a .900 sv% from him. The team said they expected him to return and he has and has played great. This team, with a healthy Crow, is no where near close to the "lose for Hughes" level that some on hear would have preferred.

As for making moves, I'm certainly not advocating for them. It's a hot start, but it's very early. I think this team can continue to have success, but let it play out and see where things stand in a few months.

 

[AmericanDream]

I've personally been saying this team was going to shock a lot of people long before the season ever started.

there were only a few of us who believed if enough things go right (core players giving a shit, Crow coming back, and the young guys not declining) this team had a serious shot at the playoffs..if the special teams does not get fixed, I fear a slide will be coming because this is simply unsustainable to win with such bad pp/pk

 

[ChiHawks10]

there were only a few of us who believed if enough things go right (core players giving a ****, Crow coming back, and the young guys not declining) this team had a serious shot at the playoffs..if the special teams does not get fixed, I fear a slide will be coming because this is simply unsustainable to win with such bad pp/pk

Agreed. They need to be league average, at worst.

 

[BobbyJet]

More thoughts on the game:
- Cat is looking better and better
- Toews continues to look like his old self
- the PP still needs work but I do see improvement
- Crawford played well again
- You can already see an improvement in Schmaltz game when he isn't constantly looking for Kane. Unlike the past, the speed of the third line is something ops have to deal with
- Fortin's best game as a Blackhawk. He's looking more comfortable
- I like Johnson ahead of Kampf but Kampf should be in the lineup ahead of Kunitz or Kruger
- Gus still a bit flakey but without the gaffes he is a real asset. Some speculate he will be the odd man out when the team is healthy. I don't think so, necessarily.

 

[migi]

Like we saw with Hino in previous years, some folks on this board make up their mind immediately that Fortin is fast but nothing else. In some cases before the guy plays a single game in the NHL (right KM) ....and are blind to the positives. They put on the blinders and see only the rookie mistakes or the missed chances. When he scores it is a fluke. They don't want to see the scoring chances and/or the open ice generated by his speed and hustle. Oh well. What can you do. If Fortin keeps playing like he has, Hawks are a better team with him in the line-up.

Like I said it to you yesterday, your bias is off charts.

You can’t really ignore the fact that Hino started playing much better after summer last year. He was much worse player in spring of 2017. When last season started, he was right of the bat clearly better player, even in preseason. And people here noticed that.

Today, Fortin is like Hinostroza in 2016-17. He creates with his speed but he lacks of passing ability, puck-handling skills and hasnt scored from slam-dunk opportunities except once in his break-away. If Fortin is NHL-caliber player in your opinion because of last night goal which was created only by Schmaltz and everyone except snakebitten Saad would’ve scored from that, oh well don’t know what to say.

Fortin has speed and he is fore-checking nicely. I think he needs to play in NHL right now because Sikura and Ejdsell had underwhelming training camps. If he keeps scoring, he needs to be in NHL. I don’t think he will because he lacks a lot hockey IQ and basic skills. He has shot and speed and wants to use his body but only his speed is elite-level. It doesn’t guarantee long career in NHL. Teams are going to figure it out and when they does, what is going to happen? Can he adjust? Can he pass the puck? He doesn’t have Hino’s playmaking ability or hockey IQ. Hinostroza showed his hockey IQ and playmaking ability before in A and we all agree that he made the jump because he slowed his game a bit and matured.

But the way you bulk your confidence and mock people, Kevin Musto for example because you think you are correct (which btw you aren’t, yet), is very odd. It’s really unbelieveable what you are typing sometimes.

I would gladly be wrong about Fortin but I don’t see it.

 

[ColdSteel2]

I'm not saying I liked the Ward signing, I didn't. But signing a veteran backup to high money isn't the sign of a team tanking or not trying to win. The season went off the rails last year when Crow got hurt and they decided to address it. Ward isn't the guy I would have chosen for sure. I agree I would have rather have signed a defenseman personally.

The biggest disconnect between the fans on hears expectations before the season vs the reality of this year was Crow. So many people had made up their mind that Crow was done for good and if he came back we'd be lucky if we got a .900 sv% from him. The team said they expected him to return and he has and has played great. This team, with a healthy Crow, is no where near close to the "lose for Hughes" level that some on hear would have preferred.

As for making moves, I'm certainly not advocating for them. It's a hot start, but it's very early. I think this team can continue to have success, but let it play out and see where things stand in a few months.

I am happy the team is winning more and fun to watch but watching the playoffs last year, I still think we are a couple massive pieces away, like getting Panarin back and Boqvist making the jump and being really good.

But, like you said, things can change but I’m with the people saying no rentals. Like Tame said, this reminds me of the two years after the last Cup when we went for it but everyone knew the team wasn’t a contender.

 

[piteus]

The fact that Rutta was one of the Hawks better DMen last year ... really shows how bad we were. If everything goes well, Rutta will be our #7 DMen this year.

Gus and Joker have been a godsend ... with Keith and Seabrook having rebound years. Think about that. Gus and Joker are just getting started and they are far better than Rutta and Manning. Let's hope Forsling and Murphy come back strong. I'm confident Forsling will ... but a back injury always takes a while to recover from. I suspect Rutta and Murphy will be switching in and out.

 

[BK]

More thoughts on the game:
- Cat is looking better and better
- Toews continues to look like his old self
- the PP still needs work but I do see improvement
- Crawford played well again
- You can already see an improvement in Schmaltz game when he isn't constantly looking for Kane. Unlike the past, the speed of the third line is something ops have to deal with
- Fortin's best game as a Blackhawk. He's looking more comfortable
- I like Johnson ahead of Kampf but Kampf should be in the lineup ahead of Kunitz or Kruger
- Gus still a bit flakey but without the gaffes he is a real asset. Some speculate he will be the odd man out when the team is healthy. I don't think so, necessarily.

Kampf for Kunitz imo.

When 5 and 42 get back I think pairings should be and honestly this might be the best 3rd pairing we've had in a long time.

2-28
56-7
42-5

I like Johnson but I would rather have a more offensive player with 8-84.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

If Gus is the odd man out when the D gets healthy then you waive every player Q tries to play ahead of him and force his hand. Or hand him his walking papers. His call.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Two years in a row of 1st round exits, one of which was a pathetic and embarrassing sweep, then the next season the Hawks drafted 8th overall. The off-season response to three years of disappointments was to sign Kunitz and Manning. I can't say for certain that the FO's plan was to be bad for one more year but it's definitely not too much of a logical leap to think that's the case.

Personally I was fine with that as a Hawks fan. I can accept the suckage if it's suckage with direction and purpose. I'd much prefer that over being a bubble team that makes a meaningless appearance in the playoffs. IMHO the worst thing that could happen to the Toews and Kane era Hawks would be to linger around in mediocrity for years. You're not winning Cups but also not really improving your roster long term with high end draft picks.

So yeah, based on the roster and coaching staff my (IMO reasonable) expectation for this year was to be really bad. It's still early and we're still missing Murphy+Forsling but I don't think the Hawks are a great team and making any sort of Fleishchman/Weiss/Vermette/Oduya trade deadline moves would be a huge, HUGE waste of assets. I really hope the Front Office and ownership don't get shortsighted and give up pieces for an empty playoff run. That's all. The team is too good now with a healthy Crawford to bottom out but I don't think anyone can make a legitimate claim the Hawks are a Cup contender.

To me, the Hawks were/are trying to win now, while being mindful of the future. Of course this is what makes the Manning signing even more puzzling, but whatever. They were never going to punt years where the core is still good enough to win.

We will agree to disagree on this and it's just personal preference. I'm too scarred from the late 90s to early 00s to ever want to go back. Give me a competitive team that makes the playoffs and has a shot. This isn't the NBA where only 2-3 teams can realistically win.

That said, I would be very hesitant about any rental trades as you mention. It's still really early and they don't have to make a decision anytime soon.

 

[BobbyJet]

there were only a few of us who believed if enough things go right (core players giving a ****, Crow coming back, and the young guys not declining) this team had a serious shot at the playoffs..if the special teams does not get fixed, I fear a slide will be coming because this is simply unsustainable to win with such bad pp/pk

Yeah. The Blackhawks start is encouraging especially with the way Toews is playing and with Crawford in the nets looking real solid. Also, the play of rookies, Joker, Kahun, Fortin and Johnson gives a lot to be optimistic about .... but let's not jump the gun. TB is a SC contender and they exposed this team. Rangers and Ducks are slow and were not very good in the last 2 games.

 

[piteus]

If Gus is the odd man out when the D gets healthy then you waive every player Q tries to play ahead of him and force his hand. Or hand him his walking papers. His call.

I don't think Q's even that stupid. Q's gone out of his way to compliment Gus. I think Kane or Toews went to Q and told him Gus makes their lives easier on the offensive end. They want him on the ice. Heck, Seabrook might have said it. Having a speedy DMen is what Seabrook needs right now. He can also cheat getting back because Gus can take more responsibility in the offensive zone.

I'm guessing ... but I think someone told Q to play Gus.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Kampf for Kunitz imo.

When 5 and 42 get back I think pairings should be and honestly this might be the best 3rd pairing we've had in a long time.

2-28
56-7
42-5

I like Johnson but I would rather have a more offensive player with 8-84.

I agree. That's a pretty solid third pair.

If Gustafsson and Seabrook can hold up as a good second pair, this team might actually have more potential than a first round playoff exit.

The Hawks have scored the second most goals in the league, second only to the Leafs.

They're also 4th in goals for per game, trailing only Pittsburgh, Washington, and Toronto.

The Hawks are getting better scoring outside of their top-3 forwards than Boston is.

 

[piteus]

Kampf for Kunitz imo.

When 5 and 42 get back I think pairings should be and honestly this might be the best 3rd pairing we've had in a long time.

2-28
56-7
42-5

I like Johnson but I would rather have a more offensive player with 8-84.

Kampf or Johnson ... or someone else with even more speed. Just surround Schmaltz with speed. He needs to play an up and down game.

 

[AmericanDream]

Yeah. The Blackhawks start is encouraging especially with the way Toews is playing and with Crawford in the nets looking real solid. Also, the play of rookies, Joker, Kahun, Fortin and Johnson gives a lot to be optimistic about .... but let's not jump the gun. TB is a SC contender and they exposed this team. Rangers and Ducks are slow and were not very good in the last 2 games.

agreed, but as long as this team can mainly win against the teams we should be beating, and can find ways to get points out of the games against "elite" teams a third of the time, this team should be a bubble playoff team. easier said than done obviously, and a long season with 1 big injury from raining on this parade...but I like what I see individually from a lot of players, just need to see the same for our system and special teams to become legit.

 

[piteus]

I agree. That's a pretty solid third pair.

If Gustafsson and Seabrook can hold up as a good second pair, this team might actually have more potential than a first round playoff exit.

The Hawks have scored the second most goals in the league, second only to the Leafs.

They're also 4th in goals for per game, trailing only Pittsburgh, Washington, and Toronto.

The Hawks are getting better scoring outside of their top-3 forwards than Boston is.

IF Murphy come back healthy and strong, I wouldn't be surprised if Forsling gets moved to the first pairing ... to give Joker a break. A 19 year old going through an 82 game schedule won't be easy physically and mentally.

 

[elvisisalive]

I made this mistake with Hino. He proved to me that I can't rush to judgement on players.

I've liked Fortin's game so far. His speed does do a lot for this team, and his line. I'd love to see him develop into what Hino is. I'd be more than happy with that.

Count me in as a pro Fortin guy. just about every shift his name is mentioned because hes all over the puck. Hands are no where near as good as they should be, but hopefully that will come. his hockey sense is fine for the most part,the game is still a bit too quick for him, but that will also come, his defensive game, mostly due to his speed is also acceptable. to me hes going to turn into a great 3rd/4th line player for us. especially if he keeps playing with 8, can you imagine if we still had hino, and those three were a line, it would have been a blast to watch

 

[ColdSteel2]

I like Fortin too. Nothing wrong with changing your mind on someone, especially going from negative to positive. People want to be right so bad they stick with a shitty opinion too long. But at the end of the day, nobody is keeping score of your correct and positive contributions. Why? Nobody gives a f***, that’s why. And these guys are all on our team so better to like them than dislike them.

 

[x Tame Impala]

@b1e9a8r5s

Fair enough. I'll add that there's also something to be said for a very young team learning how to play at a playoff level. It's probably much better for these kids to get acclimated to NHL games with a healthy Crawford covering for them and Toews/Kane/DBC providing a lot of offense.

That's usually been the difference between successful rebuilds/retools and the unsuccessful ones like Edmonton and Buffalo. Having great skaters and goaltending is a great way for young players to learn and become good themselves.

 

[coolhand]

Kampf or Johnson ... or someone else with even more speed. Just surround Schmaltz with speed. He needs to play an up and down game.

And keep Schmaltz on the wing. He looks better and more creative than at center.

 

[BobbyJet]

Not sure how the war room can overrule their own good goal call. And it stands. Thought it would. So dumb that it was even able to be challenged, considering the war room had already ruled it a goal...

The logic must be that the war room doesn't necessarily look at all aspects of the play. In this particularly case a challenge will be fruitless.