Confirmed with Link: Hawks Sign Daniel Paille to PTO

[hockeydoug]

Name a cap clearing trade where a team didn't give up the best player in the deal.

Look at 2010 offseason, Buff, Ladd, Versteeg, (got nothing for Niemi), etc. Year after that was Campbell for Olesz. That's the way it goes in a cap world. We are never going to trade a high salaried player and get a better player back in return making less money. It doesn't make any sense to think like that.

I completely agree.

I would also add that signing Paille, if he's close to the same player, doesn't take away from previous trades either. The landscape changed from 10 weeks ago and a gm is supposed to take advantage of a near no-cost opportunity to upgrade any position, especially depth players. In other words, Paille's acquisition doesn't do anything to make the Saad trade, Sharp trade, or Desjardin extension worse. It's pointless to look at that redundancy as a negative. He rebuilt a roster and Paille may be an opportunity to improve it at almost no cost.

 

[HjamSandwich]

The roster purge sucks while it's happening but then we get to the season and realize we're still icing a stacked lineup.

Losing Johns is the only gripe I have at this point.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I completely agree.

I would also add that signing Paille, if he's close to the same player, doesn't take away from previous trades either. The landscape changed from 10 weeks ago and a gm is supposed to take advantage of a near no-cost opportunity to upgrade any position, especially depth players. In other words, Paille's acquisition doesn't do anything to make the Saad trade, Sharp trade, or Desjardin extension worse. It's pointless to look at that redundancy as a negative. He rebuilt a roster and Paille may be an opportunity to improve it at almost no cost.

I don't know about that. I'd like to think a GM would have some sort of plan and isn't just sporadically making moves. It's ok to look at a GM's offseason as a whole and not a half dozen individual moves that are entirely irrelevant of eachother. All of Stan's moves are relevant and related to eachother IMO.

I still don't know what Bowman is doing so it's tough to evaluate his offseason yet. Garbutt, Tropp, Desjardins, Morin, Bickell, Shaw, Tihkonov. That's seven 4th liners that are already on the roster and now Paille is in the mix. There aren't enough roster spots and there isn't enough cap space for all of these guys, yet we still have all of them here! I don't get it.

 

[kmwtrucks]

WE trade 2 goalies that were not cap clearing and we gave up the best player in both of those deals. SAAD trade was not really a cap clearing trade and we gave up the best player in that deal. If we traded sharp and Steeg and did not need to add sweetners and got cap space I would be OK. But we had to add a 3rd and Johns to shed the cap space. So in those cases they got 2 the best assets in the deal. Sharp and Johns and Steeg and a 3rd.

 

[Illinihockey]

I still don't know what Bowman is doing so it's tough to evaluate his offseason yet. Garbutt, Tropp, Desjardins, Morin, Bickell, Shaw, Tihkonov. That's seven 4th liners that are already on the roster and now Paille is in the mix. There aren't enough roster spots and there isn't enough cap space for all of these guys, yet we still have all of them here! I don't get it.

Tropp and Morin both probably don't make the team. I'm not sure why people keep bringing them up.

 

[x Tame Impala]

They're still on the Hawks books though right? Will they both just be buried in Rockford?

 

[Illinihockey]

They're still on the Hawks books though right? Will they both just be buried in Rockford?

Yes. Hawks have a lot more cash than the Blue Jackets, paying those guys to not play for the Hawks doesn't hurt them in the least.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

In this back and white world many seem to live in, Saad is either great or he is mediocre.

Truth is, he was real good for Hawks and we don't know how high his upside is. Like most people, I was shocked when the deal was announced but in hindsight Hawks may have just won that trade. Time (and only time) will reveal which team got the better of the Saad trade.

Saad was good in the playoffs, and had some huge goals, but Patrick Sharp still outscored him playing 3rd line minutes. We got a 27 year old center who should put up 45-50 points if healthy and a 21 year old winger who should also put up 40-50 points if healthy. Collectively, I am completely OKAY with the pieces we got back and actually favor it versus signing Saad to 6m/yr.

 

[hawksrule]

Saad was good in the playoffs, and had some huge goals, but Patrick Sharp still outscored him playing 3rd line minutes. We got a 27 year old center who should put up 45-50 points if healthy and a 21 year old winger who should also put up 40-50 points if healthy. Collectively, I am completely OKAY with the pieces we got back and actually favor it versus signing Saad to 6m/yr.

In the series against Anaheim and TB, Saad had five goals combined, Sharp had one goal (a laugher after the Bishop-Hedman crash). Your 'points with no context' analysis is rather simplistic.

 

[hockeydoug]

I don't know about that. I'd like to think a GM would have some sort of plan and isn't just sporadically making moves. It's ok to look at a GM's offseason as a whole and not a half dozen individual moves that are entirely irrelevant of eachother. All of Stan's moves are relevant and related to eachother IMO.

I still don't know what Bowman is doing so it's tough to evaluate his offseason yet. Garbutt, Tropp, Desjardins, Morin, Bickell, Shaw, Tihkonov. That's seven 4th liners that are already on the roster and now Paille is in the mix. There aren't enough roster spots and there isn't enough cap space for all of these guys, yet we still have all of them here! I don't get it.

I think I get what you're saying. I'll try to clarify.

The big plan was in place outside of Kruger and vet dman. Paille was just a no cost opportunity to upgrade a slot. The previous acquisitions of 16-25 skaters had nothing to do with Paille given the respective timing and circumstances. They fit in the big plan, but it's just shuffling pieces around for improvement at this stage.

Paille's acquisition doesn't do anything take away or add inefficiency to the pickup of Garbutt, Morin, Tropp, Haggerty, Tikhonov, Desjardin's extension, Nordstrom extenision, etc. because of the grossly different timing and circumstances. Only the departure of Nordstrom/Versteeg, and their respective contract slots and skill sets may have had anything to do with the pick up. Lumping trades in previous to that is irrelevant in my opinion. He built a July roster and upgraded (assuming Paille is nearly the same as last year) the roster in September at no net cost.

By pointing to inefficiencies of the redundant 4th line types, there's not a perspective of the whole offseason either. That was part of my point. I think we all agree there's little to suspect anything sporadic from Bowman or that they make moves without being aware of the contract limit, development paths, and what they do to limit or increase their flexibility with each move.

 

[hockeydoug]

WE trade 2 goalies that were not cap clearing and we gave up the best player in both of those deals. SAAD trade was not really a cap clearing trade and we gave up the best player in that deal. If we traded sharp and Steeg and did not need to add sweetners and got cap space I would be OK. But we had to add a 3rd and Johns to shed the cap space. So in those cases they got 2 the best assets in the deal. Sharp and Johns and Steeg and a 3rd.

-Nilsson wasn't going to sign. He was insurance for 15' if the b/u spot fell apart.
-Raanta or Darling would have been lost to waivers. This wasn't a matter of trading away the best player, that is only a gripe if somebody wanted Crawford out.
-Nordstrom and/or moving back in the 17 draft wasn't much of a sweetener in the Versteeg trade. They move back a few dozen picks 2 years from now to get the whole team together for camp and they get a contract slot for one of two players they probably weren't expecting to have been available a couple of months ago.

I disagree with any of those being a "lost the best player" example. They were all but rentals already under the plan they appear to have gone with.

 

[hockeydoug]

They're still on the Hawks books though right? Will they both just be buried in Rockford?

If it was a team other than Chicago, I think that's a very good point. I think this is what illini said, it's just a matter of Chicago willing to eat some payroll and contract slots. I suspect, as others have said, that CLB wanted to give up somebody other than Dano.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Saad was good in the playoffs, and had some huge goals, but Patrick Sharp still outscored him playing 3rd line minutes. We got a 27 year old center who should put up 45-50 points if healthy and a 21 year old winger who should also put up 40-50 points if healthy. Collectively, I am completely OKAY with the pieces we got back and actually favor it versus signing Saad to 6m/yr.

We shouldn"t downplay the contributions of Saad, even if it might make us feel a little better accepting his loss. I watched every playoff win again from these past playoffs and Saad was a monster on both ends. He has already grown into one hell of a player and at 22 there is no reason to think won't continue to grow. The pieces we got back look to be decent and hopefully it works out, but when you are trading because you must clear cap space the rest of the league has you over a barrell. People moaning about getting fair value back in these summer trades seem not to realize when you have to make trades to be cap compliant you will never get fair value because you HAVE to make a trade while other teams don"t.

 

[hockeydoug]

I'm going to miss Saad every time the Hawks need a big shift to make the other team chase for a little bit. I can forget about the solid scoring and defense, I'm going to miss how strong and smart he was with the puck. That will be the most difficult to replace imo.

He's a bad guy now, so I support anyone that wants to heckle him as a money grubbin somethin or other.

 

[Hawkaholic]

He's a bad guy now, so I support anyone that wants to heckle him as a money grubbin somethin or other.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

I would give him a standing ovation when the Jackets visit the UC and I am sure most people will. Big contributor to 2 cups I wish him well.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I would give him a standing ovation when the Jackets visit the UC and I am sure most people will. Big contributor to 2 cups I wish him well.

Agreed. Any other attitude is just petty and ignorant to the business side of sports IMHO. Hell Toews and Kane could demand a trade to the Wings tomorrow and I'd still give them standing o's. Anyone on the team that gave me a championship will always be loved. As a fan nothing else really matters besides Cups. Saad was significant in 2 of the 3. Hating him because he chased the $$$$ is crazy

 

[hockeydoug]

Any other attitude is just petty and ignorant to the business side of sports IMHO.

Might want to rephrase this.

The much more important "business side" of the NHL is having fans want to pay to see an entertainment product. The important part is that fans are interested, not how they're interested. They can and should do whatever they damn well please if they're paying live or watching otherwise, don't you think?

It's a matter of preference, when it comes to the fans and Saad, neither side owes the other anything. Saad can appreciate the fans' support while in Chicago and still want to humilate the Hawks at the same time. Hawks fans can appreciate what he did for 3+ years and cheer for him to struggle the rest of his career.

Bottom line is Saad NOW plays for another team because he wanted a bigger contract. The rest is just how individual fans value his past accomplishments or the details of the transaction.

Half the UC booed Chelios 3 years after he retired just because he ran his mouth. He did much more, for much longer, off the ice for the fans, outside of the banners of course.

 

[kmwtrucks]

Nillson, Ranta, Nordy and Steeg will all be on opening day NHL rosters. the odd that Liam Coughlin, Massie and Robertson ever play 1 game in NHL might be 10%. Haggerty Maybe I give 25% for 1 game. I know these are not great assets to trade but we for sure we gave up better players now and also players that project more upside in the future. outside of family members I doubt that there are anybody who thinks the Hawks won those trades now or in the future.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

More so what Saad said to the media is what annoys me about that situation. The other cap casualties along the years have stayed out of the media, Saad didn't. And I'm not saying anything to "feel better" about his loss. I'm simply noting that he had 8 goals and 3 assist in the playoffs, not earth shattering. Again, gimme Dano + AA for 6m versus Saad at 6m.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Nillson, Ranta, Nordy and Steeg will all be on opening day NHL rosters. the odd that Liam Coughlin, Massie and Robertson ever play 1 game in NHL might be 10%. Haggerty Maybe I give 25% for 1 game. I know these are not great assets to trade but we for sure we gave up better players now and also players that project more upside in the future. outside of family members I doubt that there are anybody who thinks the Hawks won those trades now or in the future.

None of these players matter. They cleared roster/cap space/contract slots. They're all borderline NHL players outside Versteeg and would have had 0 impact on your cup aspirations going forward. And the Versteeg trade is really Versteeg/Nordstrom for cap space, which equals Kruger. He wouldn't be on this team without moving them two. And he's way more important to the success of this team and winning in the playoffs.

 

[hockeydoug]

Nillson, Ranta, Nordy and Steeg will all be on opening day NHL rosters. the odd that Liam Coughlin, Massie and Robertson ever play 1 game in NHL might be 10%. Haggerty Maybe I give 25% for 1 game. I know these are not great assets to trade but we for sure we gave up better players now and also players that project more upside in the future. outside of family members I doubt that there are anybody who thinks the Hawks won those trades now or in the future.

Raanta was going to be lost on waivers. The whole league knew Chicago would put Raanta or Darling on waivers.

Nilsson was not going to sign a contract with Chicago

They were gone no matter what, for marginal or no return.

Versteeg was a dump. Nordstrom was moved.
They used the cap money and the contract slots to make the team better. The bottom of the roster is better because of the trade, and they didn't lose anything they were counting on to win this year or in the future.

Look at all the decent players on PTOs and the lack of successful cap dumps around the league. There's plenty of comparable or better, cheaper talent. There are also going to be a pile of NHL capable young players or vets on waivers this fall. The league is flooded with non roster and bottom of the roster options.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Agreed. Any other attitude is just petty and ignorant to the business side of sports IMHO. Hell Toews and Kane could demand a trade to the Wings tomorrow and I'd still give them standing o's. Anyone on the team that gave me a championship will always be loved. As a fan nothing else really matters besides Cups. Saad was significant in 2 of the 3. Hating him because he chased the $$$$ is crazy

I could give two ***** about the business side. And I sure as hell would not give Toews and Kane a standing O if they demanded a trade to a team like the Wings.

Championships are definitely awesome, and I'm glad players can contribute to Cup wins, but I go from season to season as a fan. If a player isn't here and I don't like the circumstances in which they left, **** them. I could give 2 ***** about their life outside of hockey.

 

[HockeyMomx2]

Why isn't he still with the B's? or trying out there?

Dunno, personally wish it was Kelly they moved on from rather than Pie. Although Pie is a card carrying member of the High Glass Club (hits the glass more often than not with one notable exception), he is incredibly fast, an excellent PK'er, ridiculous for that matter and works his butt off every shift. I don't think I've ever seen him take a shift off. He's that 4th line energy guy that everyone wants. Wish we still had him :-(

 

[Sarava]

I think we need to differentiate between booing and hate. I will be at the Jackets game on Oct. 17. I dont know if I'll boo or cheer him. I'll see how I feel then. But if I do boo him, it won't be any kind of hate. Just my way of saying I wish you had chosen to stay here. Whatever the case, I wish Saad the best.