Post-Game Talk: Hawks PK tested, but mostly stands in 3-1 victory over Nashville

[BobbyJet]

/| to be blunt, those stats are next to meaningless.

 

[Hawkaholic]

/| to be blunt, those stats are next to meaningless.

Meaningless? They show how often they are on for a GA on the PK. They are meaningless to you because they don't support your weak argument.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Hmm, lets have a look.

Handzus - 6PPGA - 48:45TOI/SH = 1G every 8:08mins

Hossa - 6PPGA - 39:39TOI/SH = 1G every 6:56mins
Toews - 8PPGA - 51:28TOI/SH = 1G every 6:41mins

Kruger 18PPGA - 91:49TOI/SH = 1G every 5:08mins
Smith - 7PPGA - 30:44TOI/SH = 1G every 4:35mins

I could understand wanting Kruger off of it, but not Zus.

Those are interesting stats but something doesn't add up and I'm not sure they prove your point.

What can't be gleaned from the stats is who the PK partners were. Usually Toews and Hossa are paired together but obviuosly Toews has 12 more minutes of TOI/SH than Hossa, so Toews must have been paired with someone else for at least 12 minutes. Kruger has been paired with a bunch of other guys, including Smith, Handzus, Nordstrom earlier in the year and maybe others. Therefore Kruger's stats are affected by a bunch of PK partners and therefore his "1G every 5:08mins" may be more reflective of the partner he has than his PK abilities relative to other's on the list.

Who has Handzus been paired with? If it has been Kruger, than Kruger has a part in Handzus' rate of "1G every 8:08mins".

 

[Hawkaholic]

It proves this, Handzus is rarely on for a PK GA.

 

[Kurtosis]

It proves this, Handzus is rarely on for a PK GA.

Yes, but in what context? I think he is a good PK'er, but you have to add context to statistics to gain a better overall understanding of what the numbers are saying.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Yes, but in what context? I think he is a good PK'er, but you have to add context to statistics to gain a better overall understanding of what the numbers are saying.

There isn't much more to add. Visually, he looks like a decent PKer, and the numbers back that up. A lot of people are complaining about Kruger, and looking at the numbers, that's justified.

Some are saying get Handzus off of the PK, well what stats do they have to back up their claim that Handzus is a terrible PK guy? They say he is too slow for the PK, then why does he allow less PK GA/TOI than any other Blackhawk?

 

[Kurtosis]

There isn't much more to add. Visually, he looks like a decent PKer, and the numbers back that up. A lot of people are complaining about Kruger, and looking at the numbers, that's justified.

Some are saying get Handzus off of the PK, well what stats do they have to back up their claim that Handzus is a terrible PK guy? They say he is too slow for the PK, then why does he allow less PK GA/TOI than any other Blackhawk?

Could have to do with his partner or what unit he lines up against.

Handzus' biggest asset is his ability to win faceoffs. It would be interesting to see the splits on faceoffs when the Hawks are on the PK. I don't feel like digging too much right now though.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

Hmm, lets have a look.

Handzus - 6PPGA - 48:45TOI/SH = 1G every 8:08mins

Hossa - 6PPGA - 39:39TOI/SH = 1G every 6:56mins
Toews - 8PPGA - 51:28TOI/SH = 1G every 6:41mins

Kruger 18PPGA - 91:49TOI/SH = 1G every 5:08mins
Smith - 7PPGA - 30:44TOI/SH = 1G every 4:35mins

I could understand wanting Kruger off of it, but not Zus.

Thank you for the stats.

There are a lot of things to complain about re: Zus and Q's use of him, but him being on PK too much does not seem to me a reasonable one.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

Re: faceoffs and the penalty kill

Toews is losing SH faceoffs a lot for some reason. 12 shfow. 24 shfol.

By comparison...
Kruger - 43 w, 33 l
Handzus - 21 w, 19 l
Smith - 4 w, 11 l
Shaw - 3 w, 6 l
Sharp, 2 w, 1 l
Saad, 1w, 1 l
Nordstrom, 0 w, 2 l
Mills, 2 w, 1 l
Hossa, 1 w, 1 l

 

[Kurtosis]

Re: faceoffs and the penalty kill

Toews is losing SH faceoffs a lot for some reason. 12 shfow. 24 shfol.

By comparison...
Kruger - 43 w, 33 l
Handzus - 21 w, 19 l
Smith - 4 w, 11 l
Shaw - 3 w, 6 l
Sharp, 2 w, 1 l
Saad, 1w, 1 l
Nordstrom, 0 w, 2 l
Mills, 2 w, 1 l
Hossa, 1 w, 1 l

That is pretty terrible from Toews. The reports on his wrist being injured certainly make sense at this point.

 

[Blackhawks]

If our best Pker lets in 1 goal every 8 minutes then we are in trouble because if every other was like him then the best the PK would be is 75%. I see this has to do more than just our forward PKers, this has to do with Crawford's goal tending, I am sure everyone has heard the saying "your goalie has to be your best penalty killer", he is the difference between making the PK at 70% and 80%, yes one guy can make that difference. The number of shots and chances given by the PK to the opposing team has been the same as last year according to Q in one of his interviews a couple weeks back, then you tell me what is the only variable of that? the quality of goal tending. Coming right out of the horse's mouth, sometimes you got to read in between the lines as Q is not going to say that Crawford is the problem directly. One has to put a brain cell to work once in a while.

 

[BobbyJet]

Yes, but in what context? I think he is a good PK'er, but you have to add context to statistics to gain a better overall understanding of what the numbers are saying.

So let me get this straight. The plus/minus stat is a flawed stat but this is not? Like the plus/minus stat, over the long haul, and comparing it to players on the team, it may have some merit, but this doesn't come close to that. The sample size is puny.

Zus hasn't been bad in the neutral zone on the PK and his ability at winning face-offs can be good as well, but how anyone cannot see the pilon that he has been, defending in the box isn't looking very hard. And speaking of face-offs, Kruger has definitely learned something from Yanic. He is much better at the dot lately and when he does lose them, they aren't the clean losses that he was experiencing earlier in the season. That turnaround makes Zus' presence on the PK even less important (assuming Kruger can keep that up). Maybe Johnny should take a few lessons from Perrault as well.

I reckon that once Versteeg is back to his normal health, he may be the guy to replace that quickness needed in that role. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to be any time soon.

 

[Kurtosis]

So let me get this straight. The plus/minus stat is a flawed stat but this is not? Like the plus/minus stat, over the long haul, and comparing it to players on the team, it may have some merit, but this doesn't come close to that. The sample size is puny.

Zus hasn't been bad in the neutral zone on the PK and his ability at winning face-offs can be good as well, but how anyone cannot see the pilon that he has been, defending in the box isn't looking very hard. And speaking of face-offs, Kruger has definitely learned something from Yanic. He is much better at the dot lately and when he does lose them, they aren't the clean losses that he was experiencing earlier in the season. That turnaround makes Zus' presence on the PK even less important (assuming Kruger can keep that up). Maybe Johnny should take a few lessons from Perrault as well.

I reckon that once Versteeg is back to his normal health, he may be the guy to replace that quickness needed in that role. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to be any time soon.

I said I think he is a good PK'er (mainly based on his ability to win faceoffs) which was not based on what Hawkaholic posted. That is why I said you have to use context.

 

[BobbyJet]

I'm not sure why you chose to respond to me when I was kind of the same track as you.

Was just elaborating on your point.

 

[Kurtosis]

Was just elaborating on your point.

Yeah I reread it and got that.

 

[Kurtosis]

When Handzus is not winning his faceoffs he does become a bit of a liability though, that is for sure.