Has your opinion changed on the Reaves deal?

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So Reaves 6 minutes of ice time per night is clearly the driver of the Pens recent success? And if we removed him from the lineup - we would start losing games?

I'm sorry - that is just really bad logic. Contributions from key players like Malkin, Kessel, Letang, Murray, and others are the driver behind the success - not a guy who has an insignificant impact on every game. It is just ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

That is tantamount to suggesting that the Pens don't win the cup without Craig Adams in the lineup. We all know that isn't true.

Way to run off the rails with that boss.

The narrative after the deal was that the team was getting away from their identity and robble robble robble.

Yet here we are now... team is lighting up the scoreboard and playing as well as the 2016 team. And just like I said Reaves has helped them win at least two of their recent games with a big goal the other night and then setting up the game winner on Sunday as well.

But you anti-Reaves posters like to dig deep for dumb excuses why he’s a bad fit and hurting the team, so go on then...

 

[Jaded-Fan]

But the bottom six is nothing like 2015-2016.

It was not like 2015-2016 last year either. And it showed.

The possession numbers plummeted all last year and in the playoffs, and the Pens struggled a lot more last year than the year before when no one had an answer. They won the cup but they did not dominate the league as they had.

I am not saying that signing Reaves was the reason that the Pens could not reconstruct the 2015-2016 bottom six. But it did not help, and was a complete reversal to the kind of philosophy and team that had such success.

And this bottom six is nothing like 2015-16 and the Pens should be aiming at that even if they come up short.

 

[cassius]

Way to run off the rails with that boss.

The narrative after the deal was that the team was getting away from their identity and robble robble robble.

Yet here we are now... team is lighting up the scoreboard and playing as well as the 2016 team. And just like I said Reaves has helped them win at least two of their recent games with a big goal the other night and then setting up the game winner on Sunday as well.

But you anti-Reaves posters like to dig deep for dumb excuses why he’s a bad fit and hurting the team, so go on then...

Maybe we aren't "haters", as much as people that recognize he just isn't that good at hockey and he helps the Pens more when he is not on the ice. Coach Sullivan's very sparing use of Reaves seems to confirm that hypothesis.

Let's revisit this in a few months when the post-season hits and Reaves is out of the lineup or playing 2-3 min a game.. I think by then you'll finally see the light. Until then, keep believing that Reaves is the key impetus behind the Pens recent success.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Maybe we aren't "haters", as much as people that recognize he just isn't that good at hockey and he helps the Pens more when he is not on the ice. Coach Sullivan's very sparing use of Reaves seems to confirm that hypothesis.

Let's revisit this in a few months when the post-season hits and Reaves is out of the lineup or playing 2-3 min a game.. I think by then you'll finally see the light. Until then, keep believing that Reaves is the key impetus behind the Pens recent success.

Keep making up strawmen.

It isn't that hard to understand my point that Reaves has not been this big detriment to the team's identity and has recently even chipped in some big plays.

If you are desperate enough to be right that you need to spin that into me saying he's the driving force behind their recent success, cool.

And if he plays in the playoffs or not, it's a moot point. I already said after the trade if he helped keep Crosby and Malkin healthy during the regular season and sat most of the playoffs, the trade was still a huge success.

Some of you value 20 draft spots and a busted prospect more than the health of Crosby and Malkin, so it is what it is.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

But the bottom six is nothing like 2015-2016.

It was not like 2015-2016 last year either. And it showed.

The possession numbers plummeted all last year and in the playoffs, and the Pens struggled a lot more last year than the year before when no one had an answer. They won the cup but they did not dominate the league as they had.

I am not saying that signing Reaves was the reason that the Pens could not reconstruct the 2015-2016 bottom six. But it did not help, and was a complete reversal to the kind of philosophy and team that had such success.

And this bottom six is nothing like 2015-16 and the Pens should be aiming at that even if they come up short.

I'd argue that if JR could find another 3C and bump Sheahan to be the 4C, a 4th line of Simon/Sheahan/Reaves could be every bit the effective 4th line as we've had in either Cup winning seasons.

And that's kind of the point. The problem with the current construction of the 4th line begins and ends with its center. Put Cullen there, or move Sheahan there, and it's suddenly effective. It's not Reaves being there that's altered it from the previous two, it's the fact Rowney's essentially filling Cullen's role.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I'd argue that if JR could find another 3C and bump Sheahan to be the 4C, a 4th line of Simon/Sheahan/Reaves could be every bit the effective 4th line as we've had in either Cup winning seasons.

And that's kind of the point. The problem with the current construction of the 4th line begins and ends with its center. Put Cullen there, or move Sheahan there, and it's suddenly effective. It's not Reaves being there that's altered it from the previous two, it's the fact Rowney's essentially filling Cullen's role.

As I said 'I am not saying that signing Reaves was the reason that the Pens could not reconstruct the 2015-2016 bottom six'. And yes the Pens definately need another 3/4 center. I would still rather see a speedy skilled wing paired with that center than Reaves. I go back to it is not a black or white argument.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'd argue that if JR could find another 3C and bump Sheahan to be the 4C, a 4th line of Simon/Sheahan/Reaves could be every bit the effective 4th line as we've had in either Cup winning seasons.

And that's kind of the point. The problem with the current construction of the 4th line begins and ends with its center. Put Cullen there, or move Sheahan there, and it's suddenly effective. It's not Reaves being there that's altered it from the previous two, it's the fact Rowney's essentially filling Cullen's role.

Wait until the anti-Reaves crowd blames him for Rowney having a mind-boggling 1 SOG in the last 15 games.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

As I said 'I am not saying that signing Reaves was the reason that the Pens could not reconstruct the 2015-2016 bottom six'. And yes the Pens definately need another 3/4 center. I would still rather see a speedy skilled wing paired with that center than Reaves. I go back to it is not a black or white argument.

Aren't you, though? Your stance on the Reaves acquisition seems to always be about his making it impossible to construct a 4th line like we've had the past two Cup winners. So it sounds like it's his addition in particular you think changed how the team was built and will prevent them from icing a 4th line that fits this team's identity.

My issue with that is I don't believe he's worse than Kuhnhackl or Rowney, both of which were part of Cup winning 4th lines. The focus shouldn't even be on the Reaves acquisition *at all*, but on who the 4C is.

As I said, if Cullen returned or if Sheahan gets bumped down to 4C with a 3C deadline acquisition, I don't think there's even a discussion about the 4th line "going away from what made us successful". I think the entire reason we're even having these discussions is because its currently being centered by a guy who should be in the AHL.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Wait until the anti-Reaves crowd blames him for Rowney having a mind-boggling 1 SOG in the last 15 games.

If Reaves had Rowney or Kuhnhackl's playmaking ability and death defying speed, Rowney would be getting more shots. Duh.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Aren't you, though? Your stance on the Reaves acquisition seems to always be about his making it impossible to construct a 4th line like we've had the past two Cup winners. So it sounds like it's his addition in particular you think changed how the team was built and will prevent them from icing a 4th line that fits this team's identity.

My issue with that is I don't believe he's worse than Kuhnhackl or Rowney, both of which were part of Cup winning 4th lines. The focus shouldn't even be on the Reaves acquisition *at all*, but on who the 4C is.

As I said, if Cullen returned or if Sheahan gets bumped down to 4C with a 3C deadline acquisition, I don't think there's even a discussion about the 4th line "going away from what made us successful". I think the entire reason we're even having these discussions is because its currently being centered by a guy who should be in the AHL.

I certainly want Rowney gone. But that does not change my thoughts on Reaves. And I would not use last year's team as an example even though they won the cup. The bottom six was significantly less of an impact than the 2015-16 cup winning team.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Maybe....just maybe he'll come through and score a timely playoff goal for us?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If we don't play Reaves in the playoffs, we won't be able to keep him. Seems pretty logical.

I'd rather keep him and value him far more than having a Tomas Plekanec on the fourth line in the playoffs.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

If we don't play Reaves in the playoffs, we won't be able to keep him. Seems pretty logical.

I'd rather keep him and value him far more than having a Tomas Plekanec on the fourth line in the playoffs.

We won't be able to keep him? Ok, I can live with that.

Winning the Cup >>>> playing a useless goon who brings no real positives (not saying he brings anything really negative either) because we do not want to lose him.

Having a 4th scoring line in the playoffs could put us over the top. If to get that we need to sit Reaves, you do it.

 

[cassius]

We won't be able to keep him? Ok, I can live with that.

Winning the Cup >>>> playing a useless goon who brings no real positives (not saying he brings anything really negative either) because we do not want to lose him.

Having a 4th scoring line in the playoffs could put us over the top. If to get that we need to sit Reaves, you do it.

Bingo... what happens in the playoffs will validate who is right/wrong on this issue.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I still have the same basic opinion. He can actually play hockey in the right situation, but that situation should not include Carter Rowney as his center. Though the notion that he's a good skater was clearly exaggerated.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I still have the same basic opinion. He can actually play hockey in the right situation, but that situation should not include Carter Rowney as his center. Though the notion that he's a good skater was clearly exaggerated.

I don't think it was a case of him being called a good skater, but that people were dispelling this belief by some that he was a bad skater.

 

[Nakawick]

Reaves with a burner on the opposite wing and a decent center would be a good playoff line IMO.

And Reaves is doing exactly what he was brought in to do.

 

[cygnus47]

Nope. Reaves has been exactly what he was expected to be. He hasn't prevented anyone from getting cheap shotted and he hasn't had any fights that were meaningful. He's caused maybe a handful of turnovers the entire season with hits? Scoring a few clutch goals was a welcome surprise, but it still doesn't make up for the other 55 games where we had to play 3 lines for most of the game because he, Kuhn and Rowney are borderline NHLers. Having someone that can provide some tangible offense in his position and retaining our 1st round pick would have been better short and long term.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Reaves with a burner on the opposite wing and a decent center would be a good playoff line IMO.

And Reaves is doing exactly what he was brought in to do.

Somebody mentioned it earlier in this thread I believe, but a line of Simon-Sheahan-Reaves would be great in the playoffs. Simon seems like a good fit on the fourth line, he has been creating chances.

 

[chethejet]

First off 2016 cup run was based on zone pressure and speed. Teams now can skate and watching the games Pens will do what they do best. Grind and win the battle of compete. Reaves is still a force on the forecheck and after he hammers a guy for a number of games, it will be more helpful than many think.

 

[Riptide]

Pittsburgh Penguins, 26.5% power play percentage, 1st in the NHL.

2017-18 NHL Team Special Teams Stats

I am guessing that is more effective than anything to make teams think twice about taking liberties.

Perhaps... but we were 3rd in the NHL last year at 23.1%. Are you saying that 2 spots and 3.4% difference is enough to put the halt on most of the shit? I struggle to believe that.

 

[XanderCrews34]

Nope. Reaves has been exactly what he was expected to be. He hasn't prevented anyone from getting cheap shotted and he hasn't had any fights that were meaningful. He's caused maybe a handful of turnovers the entire season with hits? Scoring a few clutch goals was a welcome surprise, but it still doesn't make up for the other 55 games where we had to play 3 lines for most of the game because he, Kuhn and Rowney are borderline NHLers. Having someone that can provide some tangible offense in his position and retaining our 1st round pick would have been better short and long term.

I think Reaves is a fair amount better than Kuhnhackl and Kuhnhackl is a country mile better than Rowney so I don't think lumping those three in the same class makes much sense.

 

[cassius]

Reaves traded... not going to take a victory lap, but safe to say my assessment was on the money

 

[Clare2904]

See ya Ryan...

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I've always been a vocal proponent of the Reaves deal, to be honest. Everyone raked JR over coals but I knew we acquired a valuable asset we could use to solve the 3C puzzle down the road.