Has your faith in Holland been shattered?

[GOilers88]

He was still the second best goalie at the end of the day, fair or not.

Trading for a goalie mid-season reeks of desperation that other GMs will be more than happy to take advantage of. Midseason goalie trades aren't exactly common either. Mike Smith will be 40 when the playoffs roll around and another first round exit (or worse) should be grounds for at least some pink slips around the org.

He's the second best goalie because his team lost the series.

His team lost the first two games of the series because they couldn't score.

Unless you believe a goalie should steal an entire series, I don't even understand what point it is you're trying to make with this repeated second best goalie stuff. Show me a single team that has reached the second or third round on the back of their goalie and one scoring line. I'll wait. The whole second best thing is literally just words without any real meaning.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

He's the second best goalie because his team lost the series.

His team lost the first two games of the series because they couldn't score.

Unless you believe a goalie should steal an entire series, I don't even understand what point it is you're trying to make with this repeated second best goalie stuff. Show me a single team that has reached the second or third round on the back of their goalie and one scoring line. I'll wait. The whole second best thing is literally just words without any real meaning.

McDavid was the second best captain in this series.

Trade him!

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Can we stop with the "if Smith goes down we're screwed" stuff?

How many teams can lose their starter for a season and not skip a beat? It's such a silly argument to try and make.

Did you uh, happen to watch Koskinen last year in the starter's role?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He's the second best goalie because his team lost the series.

His team lost the first two games of the series because they couldn't score.

Unless you believe a goalie should steal an entire series, I don't even understand what point it is you're trying to make with this repeated second best goalie stuff. Show me a single team that has reached the second or third round on the back of their goalie and one scoring line. I'll wait. The whole second best thing is literally just words without any real meaning.

The team wasn't good enough against the Jets. That includes the goalie. Are any of the other players on the roster approaching 40 years old with health concerns?

Goaltending is the most important position in hockey. Smikinen couldn't get it done two straight years. Why is this year any different?

 

[Aerchon]

This is revisionist history. Lamiorello got shuffled out of New Jersey (where he was essentially a godfather) because of uninspiring management and was deemed to be too old not 6 years ago.

The comments about Hollands age and bullshit perceptions about his mental aptitude because he isn't a great public speaker are all nonsense. Would guarantee you would be "bumbling" too if you had a media consortium grilling you about your job performance with the threat of your answer turning into a meme depending on what you say.

Just a quick clarification.

I wasn't saying Holland was just lucky. I was speaking hypothetically in response to the previous post. Tone is lost on the boards. I should have bolded underlined etc "may" in my post.

To your point I think Holland does come off as bumbling and old. His moves as well. I think it's safe to speculate the game has passed him by no matter what happened to Lou.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

The team wasn't good enough against the Jets. That includes the goalie. Are any of the other players on the roster approaching 40 years old with health concerns?

Goaltending is the most important position in hockey. Smikinen couldn't get it done two straight years. Why is this year any different?

McDavid couldn’t get it done the last 2 years. Why is this year any different?

we should start looking to move him I guess

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

McDavid couldn’t get it done the last 2 years. Why is this year any different?

we should start looking to move him I guess

This is a terrible strawman and you know it. Mike Smith has won one playoff game since 2012, same as Koskinen.

Besides, McDavid has already taken us to round 2.

 

[McFlash97]

He's the second best goalie because his team lost the series.

His team lost the first two games of the series because they couldn't score.

Unless you believe a goalie should steal an entire series, I don't even understand what point it is you're trying to make with this repeated second best goalie stuff. Show me a single team that has reached the second or third round on the back of their goalie and one scoring line. I'll wait. The whole second best thing is literally just words without any real meaning.

Game 3 the Oilers had thier Mojo back.. they were doing great 3-0 , all good. Then Mike Smith went back to garbage mode for 4 minutes and it's all over.

You need a better goalie. You can't have 40 year olds leading you through the playoffs. He isn't Hasek.

 

[CupofOil]

This is a terrible strawman and you know it. Mike Smith has won one playoff game since 2012, same as Koskinen.

Besides, McDavid has already taken us to round 2.

Kind of a misleading stat. He's only played 10 playoff games since 2012 and had a .917 save percentage behind a Calgary team that was getting shelled every game, 1 bad game in the play ins in which the team was a disaster (worst playoff game I've seen a team play in years, any team) and a .912 save percentage which, outside of one meltdown in Game 3, he was very good and I only saw one bad goal which was the Morrissey one that tied it.

Yeah, I get the concerns about him being a year older and perhaps hitting that age wall any day now but the guy has always been a big game performer outside of a few games.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Kind of a misleading stat. He's only played 10 playoff games since 2012 and had a .917 save percentage behind a Calgary team that was getting shelled every game, 1 bad game in the play ins in which the team was a disaster (worst playoff game I've seen a team play in years, any team) and a .912 save percentage which, outside of one meltdown in Game 3, he was very good and I only saw one bad goal which was the Morrissey one that tied it.

Yeah, I get the concerns about him being a year older and perhaps hitting that age wall any day now but the guy has always been a big game performer outside of a few games.

It's certainly not his fault we lost against the Jets, but going with this same goaltending duo and expecting better seems like a recipe for disaster.

It's easy to forget but Smith did miss some time at the start of last season while Koskinen "Held the fort".

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Game 3 the Oilers had thier Mojo back.. they were doing great 3-0 , all good. Then Mike Smith went back to garbage mode for 4 minutes and it's all over.

You need a better goalie. You can't have 40 year olds leading you through the playoffs. He isn't Hasek.

wait, I thought Josh Archibald was the scapegoat?

 

[CupofOil]

It's certainly not his fault we lost against the Jets, but going with this same goaltending duo and expecting better seems like a recipe for disaster.

It's easy to forget but Smith did miss some time at the start of last season while Koskinen "Held the fort".

No doubt, I'm not comfortable with the duo either as I'm sure is the case with every Oilers fan. Just pointing out that Smith has largely been a good playoff performer even in his older years.

In fact, outside of that one horrendous December 2019, he's been arguably a top 10 goalie in the league over the course of the second half of '19-'20 and '20-'21. Whether or not he'll repeat it again at 40 is the burning question. I'm more concerned with the other half of the goalie duo tbh.

 

[McFlash97]

wait, I thought Josh Archibald was the scapegoat?

??

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

??

I just remember at the time, Josh Archibald was vilified for taking a dumb penalty that led to the collapse
I don't get how it's Mike Smith's fault

 

[McFlash97]

I just remember at the time, Josh Archibald was vilified for taking a dumb penalty that led to the collapse
I don't get how it's Mike Smith's fault

3 goals in 4 minutes
2 garbage goals in the third period in the last 10 minutes.

choke job in back to back playoffs.

hes too old for this.

 

[GOilers88]

3 goals in 4 minutes
2 garbage goals in the third period in the last 10 minutes.

choke job in back to back playoffs.

hes too old for this.

It sounds like you're trying to claim a choke job in game three cost them the series. That's not how it works.

I agree that it's a tenuous situation, but I refuse to agree that the teams inability to win a series falls on the goalies.

If the plan for the last two playoffs had been something other than "wait until McDrai scores a bunch of goals" then I'd feel differently.

 

[K1984]

It sounds like you're trying to claim a choke job in game three cost them the series. That's not how it works.

I agree that it's a tenuous situation, but I refuse to agree that the teams inability to win a series falls on the goalies.

If the plan for the last two playoffs had been something other than "wait until McDrai scores a bunch of goals" then I'd feel differently.

Bingo, and this was the only plan. Teams know the formula to beat us now. Sit in the neutral zone and don't allow rush chances against and teams will beat us. Montreal and Toronto figured this out in the regular season and the Jets followed the template in the playoffs.

The reason I am really happy with the Hyman and Foegele acquisitions is it gives us the ability to sustain cycles for longer, far too many one and dones from the top two lines over the past two seasons. Even when they sustained a cycle it often would result in not much because nobody was effectively playing in front of the net to make shooting it worth it.

 

[GOilers88]

Bingo, and this was the only plan. Teams know the formula to beat us now. Sit in the neutral zone and don't allow rush chances against and teams will beat us. Montreal and Toronto figured this out in the regular season and the Jets followed the template in the playoffs.

The reason I am really happy with the Hyman and Foegele acquisitions is it gives us the ability to sustain cycles for longer, far too many one and dones from the top two lines over the past two seasons. Even when they sustained a cycle it often would result in not much because nobody was effectively playing in front of the net to make shooting it worth it.

It was hard to watch it because it was so obvious that everyone on that team was just trying to kill time until one of McDavid or Drai scored.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It sounds like you're trying to claim a choke job in game three cost them the series. That's not how it works.

I agree that it's a tenuous situation, but I refuse to agree that the teams inability to win a series falls on the goalies.

If the plan for the last two playoffs had been something other than "wait until McDrai scores a bunch of goals" then I'd feel differently.

I do believe that's a coaching issue.

 

[Paralyzer008]

Yep.

But Hyman will make us better, and the Oilers won't get swept in round one again because of it.

Will they pass round one? Well...the D and goaltending tell me no, but it depends on who their matchup is frankly as the Pacific is weak sauce.

They're not better than the top teams in the NHL though, and I don't think Holland has a clue anymore.

 

[North Cole]

Just checked out that Athletic list, it’s a big circle jerk of mostly Canadian fans hate voting down other Canadian teams, aside from ridiculous praise for the Jets, placing them in 6th (much wow, they acquired two middle pair d men). Montreal is next up at 17th and all of the other Canadian teams are 20+

Detroit is 3rd “cuz Yzerman”. Wonder if he’s done tanking yet?

The dude is so over rated as a GM, people act like he's some savant and he gets a tonne of retroactive credit for their b2b cups. It was JB who put the finishing touches on that roster and made the cap work. Y got nominated for GM of the year in 2010 after like half a year on the job, all he did was re-sign MSL and they went on a miracle run to the ECF. Miss the playoffs two years, then swept in round 1. Sounds a lot like us... Then Kucherov wakes up and they go SCF loss to ECF loss to missing the playoffs, to ECF loss, to him quitting and them getting swept after a historic season.

We can give him credit for Kucherov and the 2014-16 deep runs, but the team never won while he was there. Only after he gets replaced that some GM puts the cherry on top and they actually win. Weird reading this thread and seeing Chiarelli get some retroactive credit for our miracle run.

DET doesn't seem to have any aspirations on getting out of the basement soon and the fans are more than happy to crone about "Stevie Y and the Prospects", like they're the band opening for George Thorogood and the Destroyers.

Absolutely. I am not sure exactly why this is so

My personal theory is that the owners want to appease the massive and rabid fan bases. And most casual fans want that grey-haired vet GM who has been in the league for 20 years and is in the "old boys club". Its easier to have hope in those guys and hiring those guys results in the least backlash.

Whereas with small market US teams, they arent shackled with that, so can often look at other, not as traditional candidates. And the GMs they do hire (whether former players or new candidate), do not have the fan base pressure to bring in a certain type of player. Canadian fan bases want to see the rugged vet with cup experience brought in. Small market teams dont have the pressure or the cap space even to make big runs at these guys, so often get creative with the players they draft/sign/resign .

Just my theory

It's the opposite, US market teams need to actually appease their fanbases while the Canadian one's don't. We sell out regardless of how much we stink, if the US teams are in the basement forever they lose money. By virtue of having disinterested fanbases that can wander over to MLB/NBA/NFL, the US NHL teams actually need to be well run in order to get to the playoffs and keep their fans.

When you operate a team where the next best sporting entertainment is the Elks and you're in a comparatively richer market - you don't need to give a shit about winning. Canadian teams fail into profit. US teams fail into relocation or sale. Most Canadian fans don't know anything about the GM but what the media tells them, so I really don't think the casual person in this city has some kind of informed opinion about who they want brought in before he's having his hiring press conference.

 

[K1984]

Agree on Yzerman.

Tampa is a beneficiary of unbelievable drafting in rounds 2-4 as well as their two top 2 overall picks working out well as cornerstones. Other than Vasilevsky, their first round drafting outside of #1 or #2 overall is actually pretty terrible. It's weird how they always find gems later on, but can't do much of anything when it's supposed to be easier.

So kudos to the scouts for finding these players, but it isn't Yzerman grinding to find the off the grid gems.