Has your faith in Holland been shattered?

[Louis Cypher]

Blah blah blah
Did I miss anything?

 

[Louis Cypher]

Ah, I see we're ripping him now for not getting a goalie who has the Oilers on his no-trade list.

And who may just retire.

 

[Patch101]

No....No, he would not. He's not even a good backup at this point, and he ain't getting any younger.

Just because you get someone for nothing doesn't mean they're necessarily good. It usually means you don't have any other options, and your depth stinks.

well, I respectfully disagree. He's averaged a 0.907 average over the last 3 years. More than respectful for backup numbers.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Blah blah blah
Did I miss anything?

Expansion draft is over, regular draft is over.

I sure hope Holland has a plan for Koskinen because if he's in our net in October then Ken should be gone.

 

[Dorian2]

My understanding is that Holland made a deft, far sighted deal with the Lucic/Neal trade.

Is this correct?

 

[Louis Cypher]

Expansion draft is over, regular draft is over.

I sure hope Holland has a plan for Koskinen because if he's in our net in October then Ken should be gone.

So we should spend another 4 million on a Goalie while we still have kosko? Who's taking kosko? I'm sure there's tons of takers and if we can't get rid of him and his shitty contract it's Holland's fault right? Of course that and the fact that he didn't draft that goalie right?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

So we should spend another 4 million on a Goalie while we still have kosko? Who's taking kosko? I'm sure there's tons of takers and if we can't get rid of him and his shitty contract it's Holland's fault right? Of course that and the fact that he didn't draft that goalie right?

The GM should do his job and find another address for Koskinen. I'm sorry, but going with Smith/Koskinen yet again is asking for disaster.

When you're the highest paid GM in the league you can afford excuses, I guess.

I'm not going to lose sleep over not drafting the goalie, as I was firmly in the "Trade the pick for immediate help" camp.

 

[Porkleaker]

#1 Replace Dustin Schwartz, he's not qualified to coach any goalies beyond pee-wee. Acquire a legitimate goaltender that isn't 40 or doesn't let in the first 8 shots on net in.
Then I get lost because this team is a f'n sponge, there's so many holes to fill and Holland brings in Grandpa Keith and looking like Hyman...That's just facepalm f***ing material right there.
I've about lost all faith in this organization in ever getting things right, Holland is just a washed up failure of a GM that ruined Detroit and is failing here as well. Fire him now.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I know I’m on your ignore list, but for real, are you on the Oiler payroll? You sure argue for Holland like you’re paid to do it.

He has a point.

Fleury has the Oilers on his no trade list.

How is it hollands fault that he couldnt trade for him?

And how are we absorbing a 7m goalie contract with zero going back the other way also.

People just love to cry about literally everything here.

 

[KCC]

It's going to be a long upcoming season. lol

 

[Tobias Kahun]

we’d have lots of room for a goalie without Keith, and the body of evidence over the last few weeks is that Bowman held Holland in the toilet by his ankles and swirlied him.

Del’s been up everyone’s ass that’s had anything remotely critical to say about Holland for months now. It’s gross.

People bitching at Holland for Chicago acquiring fleury deserves to be called out.

lots of things to complain about, that isn’t one of them.

 

[brentashton]

we’d have lots of room for a goalie without Keith, and the body of evidence over the last few weeks is that Bowman held Holland in the toilet by his ankles and swirlied him.

Del’s been up everyone’s ass that’s had anything remotely critical to say about Holland for months now. It’s gross.

So Ken should have demanded MAF take Edmonton off his no trade list? He’s Ken Holland, he’s not David Blaine.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He needs to take advantage of these teams willing to take bad contracts.

 

[oilexport]

Stevie (Wonder) Yzerman is making magic again, this time back in Detroit. After building the Lightning to back to back Stanley cups he is now doing this in Detroit. My lord what is he doing to force these teams to make these trades?
Carolina Traded Alex Nedeljkovic to Detroit in return for the signing rights of Bernier and a 3rd round draft pick.
For those unaware, Nedeljkovic finished 3rd in Calder voting this year.

---- So this I what a smart GM does. We got a washed up one here.

 

[McCombo]

I had very little faith to begin with, but the way he handled the Puljujärvi case I started believing. Kassian contract was first big mistake. Some good signings here and there with limited cap space, but the Keith trade and current rumours are really concerning. Keith was a cap dumb for Chicago and Holland paid assets for him... Oilers are closer to McDavid asking a trade than Stanley Cup.

Larsson -> Keith is a big downgrade. I don't know if Hamilton had any desire to come Edmonton, but should have at least tried. He would have been a game changer.

Possible adds by rumours:

- Hyman would be good addition, but not a fan of the term. Tatar probably signs a lot more team friendly contract so that would have been better imo.

- Barrie extension is meh. Sounds like term and dollars are reasonable at least. Problem is that he isn't a good fit (max 2nd pairing minutes with steady LD and it would be great).

- Getzlaf is done. Useful in PP, but PP is set.

- Ceci coming also? WTF and heard 4 year term. If they trade Bear for peanuts, I don't even know what to say...

At the end of the day the team will most likely be marginally better than last year. Slightly above average NHL team. Playoffs are likely thanks to very easy division. Hard to call the team even dark horse for SC, long shot is closer. And we are entering 7th year of McDavid era, absolutely incredible. Bob Nicholson was a bad, bad hire. Old-school guy hires old-school GM's and we are seeing the results in front of our eyes.

Edit. Bear traded to Carolina. Organization that values analytics. For Warren Foegele??? 3rd liner, for promising RD that was forced to play 1st pairing minutes rookie season.

FIRE HOLLAND!

 

[aqib]

It seems like we never win a trade. We never make that deal that makes us go "ah ha! here is what we need!" So as a result everything annoys me. Taking all of Keith's contract while giving up assets annoys me. Then you have the draft. I can't say I am an expert on the draft. I didn't watch any of these guys play so its not like I know how good an 18 year old from Sweden is going to be. However, I am sitting there thinking "We haven't had an elite goalie since Cujo and haven't drafted one in the first round since Dubnyk and here is a guy ranked #10 in overall prospects who projects to be a #1 goalie and he is sitting there at #20. ok make this pick" So of course we don't. In the past I would normally give the GM the benefit of the doubt but Holland hasn't given me a reason to trust him. I get that free agency is hard for some reason Edmonton is a tough draw (I've only visited but I liked it) but even Lowe was able to have 1 good year as GM. Now I almost wish we had kept McT as GM

 

[McDoused]

Loving his moves so far today.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Loving his moves so far today.

SO you are happy with KOsk and Smith in net again and you actualy like our D? and the cap space everyone was talking about? Klefbom has to be done because there is no way we can sign Foegle and Yams unless he is done for the year

 

[Ementy]

the team is way better today, Ceci haters, go watch some hockey, he's played well since leaving OTT and does a defensive roll well.

If Holland gets a starting goalie, and moves Koski I will be more than content, he put in work today, while being silent as other teams all made moves. (my previous post in this thread was not positive towards Holland)

 

[ZenOil]

Keith thing annoyed me, but today he has done some good things. I'd rather be positive then a whiny bitch so hope it works out

 

[nturn06]

Stevie (Wonder) Yzerman is making magic again, this time back in Detroit. After building the Lightning to back to back Stanley cups he is now doing this in Detroit. My lord what is he doing to force these teams to make these trades?
Carolina Traded Alex Nedeljkovic to Detroit in return for the signing rights of Bernier and a 3rd round draft pick.
For those unaware, Nedeljkovic finished 3rd in Calder voting this year.

---- So this I what a smart GM does. We got a washed up one here.

Oh man, it looks like Detroit found their Raycroft

 

[GOilers88]

SO you are happy with KOsk and Smith in net again and you actualy like our D? and the cap space everyone was talking about? Klefbom has to be done because there is no way we can sign Foegle and Yams unless he is done for the year

It's been 3 hours of free agency. Nothing saying our goalies are locked in. There's lots of time to work something out if there's a deal out there.

But I won't blame Holland if nobody wants to touch Koskinen. The way this fanbase talks about him is anyone really upset that we cant make someone want him? Inheriting Lucic and Koskinen was a tough pill.

 

[North Cole]

I said I would wait until FA is over before making my decision in respect to the thread. After the Hyman rumours I was starting to get pretty sour WRT to Holland, but have turned around a little.

The fails:
Keith - Still disappointed in not having retention. He is not a $5.5M defenceman today.
Hyman - Term is bad and $ are a little rich. 7 years is too long of a commitment to this player.
Larsson - Losing Larsson for free sucks.
Ceci - Not happy with the fourth year and the AAV is a little high.

Decent to good:
Barrie contract is legit theft. Best move of his offseason.
Nuge deal is awesome, though the NMC could be somewhat painful.
Happy with the Bear trade - WF is exactly what our middle six is looking for and I'm not really sold on Bear.
Neal buyout - thank god.

Unknown:
We need a damn goalie, if we don't get one then this becomes the number one fail. Jury is still out.

IDK, in a Vacuum the Hyman, Keith, and Ceci contracts leave something to be desired and are bad. Adding in the context of the horrifically bloated market today, these deals don't even look as horrible. Would rather have Savard at 3.5 but seems he wanted to stay out East. Suter went to a tax haven and wasn't gonna come to Canada. Would like to have been in on the Arvy trade, I think we could have fit his protection in knowing they take Larsson in the draft. Keith at 5.5M probably saves us from some other abomination, I get that this is still an indictment of Holland, but my faith hasn't been totally ruined.

- WRT to Hyman, Goodrow was an awful contract, Coleman signed just as bad a contract in CGY but is worse. Danault doesn't buck this trend and Granlund 4x5 is bad. If we had the term of the Schwartz contract I think I'd be extremely happy with the Hyman deal.
- Poolman got 2.5M and is worse than Ceci, Hamonic got 3M and Mike Reilly somehow got 3M. Larsson ripped himself off by taking that contract early and not testing the market. Jones contract is an abomination.
- Then you have star forwards looking for insane prices, like Zib reported 10M. Lande got a good deal, but that's a outlier like Barrie - a player who wanted to stay and was comfortable to take less. Guarantee both get paid if they test the market.
- Not sure about Goalies. Grub is rumoured to be headed to Seattle, EDIT - it's confirmed, figured it would be more $ than Markstrom but it's the same. That's good for us. I mean, Jones and Holtby got 2M and Halak got 1+ with performance bonuses, so the Mike smith deal isn't even bad.

I was thinking Hamilton would get paid but who knows how much money will be left out there for him based on how much went today.

 

[OilerTitanFan]

Stevie (Wonder) Yzerman is making magic again, this time back in Detroit. After building the Lightning to back to back Stanley cups he is now doing this in Detroit. My lord what is he doing to force these teams to make these trades?
Carolina Traded Alex Nedeljkovic to Detroit in return for the signing rights of Bernier and a 3rd round draft pick.
For those unaware, Nedeljkovic finished 3rd in Calder voting this year.

---- So this I what a smart GM does. We got a washed up one here.

And why should we care about what Yzerman and Detroit does? They are still bottom feeders who will not make the playoffs. If that's what you want, go cheer for Detroit.

 

[MoontoScott]

The Summer of Ken is upon us.

Scorecard so far is showing pretty pedestrian GMing.

Other teams like Philly and Florida have wriggled out of cap handcuffs burying their dead in the Desert. Of course you need to have spare assets to do that and ghosts of Kenny's past left this team without the draft collateral to move Neal and Koskinen. Oil goaltending seems lurching its way back to an underwhelming pairing of the ageless one (we hope!) and Koskinen.

Losing Larsson despite holidaying in the sun with Draisaitl makes the Kenny Do list even longer with silly season upon us. Not putting this on the GM but heading into free agency it seems likely the Oilers could go 1-4 in retaining their own free agents which is tough for a franchise that is consistently on player's no fly zone as a possible millionaire homestead.

The fanbase has been primed for a Hyman overpay. Low hanging fruit for Oiler GM work we've seen before. Can we "Expect the Unexpected" Oiler trademark slogan to address a lot of roster holes? Staying tuned ... keeping some faith and hope...

EDIT: Forgot the Keith deal. Still love the player but not the Mr. Rogers good neighbour act in failing to leverage cap retention and holding the line on draft compensation. Chicago subsequently leveraged this benevolence into an overpayment to the good Jones brother and stealing the current Vezina goaltender.

What is interesting to me is what the spread sheet tells me about the 2022-23 season. It really calls for somewhere around $5M in additional spending over and above their current cap number in order to extend the the Nurse and Puls contracts. Both will be seeking significant raises.

I don't know how many more moves they will make this off-season but it looks like they will be pretty close to the cap by the end of the summer even with Klefbom on the LTIR. So where doe the additional funds come from in 2022-23? The only major deal coming off the books at the end of this season is the Kosko deal at 4.6M--- so perhaps their thinking is to go with him for the full season and then have the full contract come off the books at the end of these season.

I can understand this reasoning but the #1 priority this off season was to look at improved goaltending and right now that seems a bit distant. Some curious moves for sure.