Has your faith in Holland been shattered?

Has your faith in Holland been shattered?


  • Total voters
    479

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
71,822
30,733
Calgary
I refuse to have any faith in this man while our goaltending remains Smith/Koskinen and I question anyone who doesn't feel the same way.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,141
27,826
Holland's good abilities as a GM seem to begin and end with being able to work with Barrie's agent and that's about it, lol.

Anyone can overpay for Hyman, Mac T could've and probably would've done the same thing.
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
14,653
15,203
Vancouver
What is interesting to me is what the spread sheet tells me about the 2022-23 season. It really calls for somewhere around $5M in additional spending over and above their current cap number in order to extend the the Nurse and Puls contracts. Both will be seeking significant raises.

I don't know how many more moves they will make this off-season but it looks like they will be pretty close to the cap by the end of the summer even with Klefbom on the LTIR. So where doe the additional funds come from in 2022-23? The only major deal coming off the books at the end of this season is the Kosko deal at 4.6M--- so perhaps their thinking is to go with him for the full season and then have the full contract come off the books at the end of these season.

I can understand this reasoning but the #1 priority this off season was to look at improved goaltending and right now that seems a bit distant. Some curious moves for sure.

So many holes to fill. I think the Larsson loss likely created a bit of chain reaction in how they had to approach free agency. Instead of finding a finishing piece for a strong, diverse d-corp with veteran top two pairing the Oilers were forced to do a pretty extensive retool. Larsson signs, I'm not sure they circle back to Barrie and then I'm not sure Bear is dealt for third line depth winger. The Oil could not afford to fallback on the blue line. Time will tell if Ceci cover a big bet...I'm not sure. And still another third pair guy is needed.

Goaltending is not good enough for a legitimate Cup contender imo. We see every playoff how elite goaltending can carry Cinderellas to unexpected heights and high pedigree drafted tenders deliver. They need to get Kuemper now than Ulmark has signed in Boston. Third line centre is another priority area which hasn't been addressed. Oil paid a high price imo for an energy bottom six winger who I think is an okay target but a second pair young NHL d-man seems an overpay.

Holland is starting to shape his team. But can't help to believe a lot of this work has been reactive to Larsson leaving.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
78,959
64,165
So many holes to fill. I think the Larsson loss likely created a bit of chain reaction in how they had to approach free agency. Instead of finding a finishing piece for a strong, diverse d-corp with veteran top two pairing the Oilers were forced to do a pretty extensive retool. Larsson signs, I'm not sure they circle back to Barrie and then I'm not sure Bear is dealt for third line depth winger. The Oil could not afford to fallback on the blue line. Time will tell if Ceci cover a big bet...I'm not sure. And still another third pair guy is needed.

Goaltending is not good enough for a legitimate Cup contender imo. We see every playoff how elite goaltending can carry Cinderellas to unexpected heights and high pedigree drafted tenders deliver. They need to get Kuemper now than Ulmark has signed in Boston. Third line centre is another priority area which hasn't been addressed. Oil paid a high price imo for an energy bottom six winger who I think is an okay target but a second pair young NHL d-man seems an overpay.

Holland is starting to shape his team. But can't help to believe a lot of this work has been reactive to Larsson leaving.
Weirdly enough, I'm a lot more optimistic about his moves today than you are. How the turns have tabled. ;)
 

MoontoScott

Registered User
Jun 2, 2012
7,726
8,347
So many holes to fill. I think the Larsson loss likely created a bit of chain reaction in how they had to approach free agency. Instead of finding a finishing piece for a strong, diverse d-corp with veteran top two pairing the Oilers were forced to do a pretty extensive retool. Larsson signs, I'm not sure they circle back to Barrie and then I'm not sure Bear is dealt for third line depth winger. The Oil could not afford to fallback on the blue line. Time will tell if Ceci cover a big bet...I'm not sure. And still another third pair guy is needed.

Goaltending is not good enough for a legitimate Cup contender imo. We see every playoff how elite goaltending can carry Cinderellas to unexpected heights and high pedigree drafted tenders deliver. They need to get Kuemper now than Ulmark has signed in Boston. Third line centre is another priority area which hasn't been addressed. Oil paid a high price imo for an energy bottom six winger who I think is an okay target but a second pair young NHL d-man seems an overpay.

Holland is starting to shape his team. But can't help to believe a lot of this work has been reactive to Larsson leaving.

So its quite possible that there is no buyout of the Kosko deal and the team is stuck with a 4.6M cap hit for the season? I don't understand why Holland didn't just jump on the first buyout window and be done with it-especially when Holland appears to have lost all confidence in the guy? You might as well just go with Stalock and Skinner in the back-up spots?
 

GOilers88

Fer Da
Dec 24, 2016
14,173
20,681
Holland's good abilities as a GM seem to begin and end with being able to work with Barrie's agent and that's about it, lol.

Anyone can overpay for Hyman, Mac T could've and probably would've done the same thing.
So you're not happy with how today went?
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
14,653
15,203
Vancouver
Weirdly enough, I'm a lot more optimistic about his moves today than you are. How the turns have tabled. ;)

Bizarro Seinfeld. I'm okay with his substantively changing the mix - too passive for two long. Hyman's relentless motor and versatility will make a big difference. Expensive but addresses a major weakness of this club. Keith I think will be even more important with this blue line retool. A lot weights on Ceci for me - a player I don't know a lot about. Foegele I think will be solid bottom six energy guy just feel the cost was a bit high. Find this type in free agency. Save your trade chips (& the Oil have few) for a higher end roster player.

Goaltending is vital and I don't think it coincidence the patchwork effort of this organization at likely the most critical position on ice is contributory to its extended stay as bottom feeder. I though Bear might go for Kuemper which I would have been 100% behind.

Things always seem good throwing money around. I just think there's still questions on d, goaltending and third line centre.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
78,959
64,165
Bizarro Seinfeld. I'm okay with his substantively changing the mix - too passive for two long. Hyman's relentless motor and versatility will make a big difference. Expensive but addresses a major weakness of this club. Keith I think will be even more important with this blue line retool. A lot weights on Ceci for me - a player I don't know a lot about. Foegele I think will be solid bottom six energy guy just feel the cost was a bit high. Find this type in free agency. Save your trade chips (& the Oil have few) for a higher end roster player.

Goaltending is vital and I don't think it coincidence the patchwork effort of this organization at likely the most critical position on ice is contributory to its extended stay as bottom feeder. I though Bear might go for Kuemper which I would have been 100% behind.

Things always seem good throwing money around. I just think there's still questions on d, goaltending and third line centre.

I would agree that it all hinges on the goaltending. If he doesn't improve it, it threatens to unravel all his decent work today.
 
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bellagiobob

Registered User
Jul 27, 2006
21,842
50,408
So its quite possible that there is no buyout of the Kosko deal and the team is stuck with a 4.6M cap hit for the season? I don't understand why Holland didn't just jump on the first buyout window and be done with it-especially when Holland appears to have lost all confidence in the guy? You might as well just go with Stalock and Skinner in the back-up spots?

As bad as Kosko was at points last year, they need to be sure they have a better option than him before they buy him out. I don't think either of those two guys are. Give it a few days, I think we will see a move at some point.
 
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Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
72,141
27,826
So you're not happy with how today went?

I'm ok with the Barrie and Ryan moves.

Hyman ... like the player, but I don't think that contract is going to work out well could be bad even as a sooner as year 2/3.

No goalie add is awful.

Defence I think is more or less the same tier as last year except Holland managed to pay like double the amount for this version. Granted, yes, in a tight playoff game, I suppose this group would be less apt to do stupid things.
 

GOilers88

Fer Da
Dec 24, 2016
14,173
20,681
Today was fine, but it won't mean much if the guys behind the guys we signed can't stop anything.
Yeah I know we want a goalie but I'm shocked at the amount of moves we made today, and I like most of them in the sense that I think all of them made us harder to play against.

And as much as I agree with you all and want Koski gone, I also don't think having the same tandem to start the year dooms the entire season into oblivion. Trades can always be made down the line.
 
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MoontoScott

Registered User
Jun 2, 2012
7,726
8,347
As bad as Kosko was at points last year, they need to be sure they have a better option than him before they buy him out. I don't think either of those two guys are. Give it a few days, I think we will see a move at some point.

Yes, your response makes sense but I still wonder why they didn't give Stalock a few starts last season to see what they had--I guess they didn't like what they saw in practice.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
14,653
15,203
Vancouver
So its quite possible that there is no buyout of the Kosko deal and the team is stuck with a 4.6M cap hit for the season? I don't understand why Holland didn't just jump on the first buyout window and be done with it-especially when Holland appears to have lost all confidence in the guy? You might as well just go with Stalock and Skinner in the back-up spots?

Yup, me too. Rip the bandaid on both he and Neal. Hard to say what information we are missing with whispers of a trade market for Koskinen. Seems preposterous but Arizona is taking on bad cap for lottery tickets clearly trying to bottom out for the next couple of draft years with elite prospects available. But lagging on pulling the trigger now has Colorado desperately needing goaltending so price likely goes up and the Oil are light on draft picks to throw at them.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
78,959
64,165
Goaltending. Defense is not clearly improved imo. Still questions.
Even if the defense stays roughly the same (maybe more puck moving and less in-zone defending, but on balance), the improvements in the forward ranks should be enough to propel this team to the next level ... IF he improves the goaltending.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
14,653
15,203
Vancouver
Even if the defense stays roughly the same (maybe more puck moving and less in-zone defending, but on balance), the improvements in the forward ranks should be enough to propel this team to the next level ... IF he improves the goaltending.

IF.

I prefer a balanced d that includes a more traditional physical shutdown defender. Might be the old schooler in me but I want a d with length and at least one that can physically make it difficult on opposing teams to get into the high chance scoring areas. Nurse is great at that but this team still needs another meat eater on the backend imo.

This team is being shaped to play a more playoff style with greater compete but goaltending is an issue and I'm not rushing to judgement thinking this d corp is good enough.

EDIT: A-ha! Was out and missed the Derek Ryan signing. Cheap, serviceable 3C lower end that I had hoped for but another upgrade as Holloway percolates a wee bit.
 
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Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
78,959
64,165
IF.

I prefer a balanced d that includes a more traditional physical shutdown defender. Might be the old schooler in me but I want a d with length and at least one that can physically make it difficult on opposing teams to get into the high chance scoring areas. Nurse is great at that but this team still needs another meat eater on the backend imo.

This team is being shaped to play a more playoff style with greater compete but goaltending is an issue and I'm not rushing to judgement thinking this d corp is good enough.
Ceci was that last year, so hopefully he can maintain that.

I'm crossing my fingers for the goaltending.
 

Mr Sakich

Registered User
Mar 8, 2002
9,641
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Motel 35
vimeo.com
So its quite possible that there is no buyout of the Kosko deal and the team is stuck with a 4.6M cap hit for the season? I don't understand why Holland didn't just jump on the first buyout window and be done with it-especially when Holland appears to have lost all confidence in the guy? You might as well just go with Stalock and Skinner in the back-up spots?

we have two players eligible for arbitration which opens up a 2nd buyout window. No need to buy him out if there is a chance someone will take him at 50% retained or too high of a futures (pick or player). Now that the frenzy is over, there are a number of teams who could use him even if it is just a roster spot while they try to tank. That should drive the price down
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
14,653
15,203
Vancouver
Ceci was that last year, so hopefully he can maintain that.

I'm crossing my fingers for the goaltending.

Ceci is the X-factor. I don't know the player and definitely did not know him to be a physical shutdown guy. Clear his game has evolved from Toronto and Ottawa. If he is now leaning on opposition, leveraging his size and competing for all spaces on the ice then this is promising. Like I've admitted... I don't know this player from beyond the early post-draft era of play. The Oil are certainly betting that everything's clicked for the guy with his time in Pittsburg. Personally, I'll need to see him in an Oil jersey but open minded to this player being a solid addition.
 

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