Has Scheifele proven he is better than Couturier now?

[ps241]

I'm unsure which of the two is the better player; this poster sure seemed to have a definitive opinion regarding the matter though...
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=75201401&postcount=129

Oop.

Ok that is pretty funny, then amps up to "REALLY FUNNY" when you look at who started this thread but I will throw Leafster7 a bone and give him props for adjusting with the changing weather conditions on the ground and celebrating the growth of a young talent.

 

[buggs]

Not to take anything away from Scheifele, but I think the roles of the players are pretty different in how they are being used by their teams. Scheif has been cast more in a scoring role than Couturier, who has been asked to do more defensively and as such, his scoring may suffer.

I definitely like Scheifele right now and he sure is trending in the right direction. Kane-Scheifele-Wheeler?

 

[Samcanadian]

Ok that is pretty funny, then amps up to "REALLY FUNNY" when you look at who started this thread but I will throw Leafster7 a bone and give him props for adjusting with the changing weather conditions on the ground and celebrating the growth of a young talent.

lol the funny thing is that was RIGHT before he went on his hot streak.

 

[pucka lucka]

Not to take anything away from Scheifele, but I think the roles of the players are pretty different in how they are being used by their teams. Scheif has been cast more in a scoring role than Couturier, who has been asked to do more defensively and as such, his scoring may suffer.

I definitely like Scheifele right now and he sure is trending in the right direction. Kane-Scheifele-Wheeler?

Looking forward to that. I couldn't figure out why Noel wasn't trying that.

 

[wpgsilver]

I've like the Schiefele pick all along, save the 5 minutes right after we picked him.
That said, we're not going to know who the better player is for years.

 

[ps241]

lol the funny thing is that was RIGHT before he went on his hot streak.

The Sipowicz bounce!

 

[Flair Hay]

I'm unsure which of the two is the better player; this poster sure seemed to have a definitive opinion regarding the matter though...
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=75201401&postcount=129

Oop.

Hehe pretty sick burn. I think most of us have been surprised with how consistently dangerous Scheifele has been creating chances. Once he's got his man strength he's going to be a #1C. It might take 4-5 years til he can win vs top NHL players and that fits our timeline pretty well!

 

[bennysflyers16]

Speaking as someone who has watched every single NHL game by both players, each team got the player they need. Jets need a big center who can put up points, Flyers need a big elite defensive center to go against Sid, Malkin, Tavares for the next 15 years.

Couts can put up the offense in the few chances he has had, but scoring is not what the Flyers are asking him to do. Top Pk er and shutdown role while playing 2nd PP.

 

[ps241]

Speaking as someone who has watched every single NHL game by both players, each team got the player they need. Jets need a big center who can put up points, Flyers need a big elite defensive center to go against Sid, Malkin, Tavares for the next 15 years.

Couts can put up the offense in the few chances he has had, but scoring is not what the Flyers are asking him to do. Top Pk er and shutdown role while playing 2nd PP.

Yea this is how it is shaping up.....not "either or" but all the above. Both players fit their team and situation very well.

 

[surixon]

Speaking as someone who has watched every single NHL game by both players, each team got the player they need. Jets need a big center who can put up points, Flyers need a big elite defensive center to go against Sid, Malkin, Tavares for the next 15 years.

Couts can put up the offense in the few chances he has had, but scoring is not what the Flyers are asking him to do. Top Pk er and shutdown role while playing 2nd PP.

Pretty much how I've always seen it. Add Ottawa with Zib to the mix and I think all three teams got the player they needed.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Pretty much how I've always seen it. Add Ottawa with Zib to the mix and I think all three teams got the player they needed.

Me personally, I would of taken Hamilton for the Flyers, but I knew they wouldn't pass on Couts, and he has worked out very well. If we move Brayden for a young D man and Couts gets to 2nd hole and Laughton in the 3rd hole, then we will be able to compare point totals pretty fairly. Now it is almost pointless though.

 

[knorthern knight]

Couts can put up the offense in the few chances he has had, but scoring is not what the Flyers are asking him to do. Top Pk er and shutdown role while playing 2nd PP.

Sort of like Burmistrov's strong points. A Euro east-west dangler who hangs on to the puck, but doesn't score that much doesn't fit a 1C or 2C role. But he'd be ideal on PK killing time with the puck.

 

[allan5oh]

Again this is a silly comparison and way too early. Couturier is essentially Scheifele and Burmistrov in one player. Although their stat lines are very similar, they're used differently. Couts gets PK time, and he's damn good at it.

Right now if we swapped the two players our team would improve slightly, but long term?????

 

[Aela*]

I think Coots is the better player - as his defense is Little-like, and given a chance, his scoring could jump up too. Scheifele scores, and creates chances though (I certainly never thought he'd have this sort o offensive pressure) and that's what we need. Would easily take Scheifele over Coots right now especially with Burmistrov in he wings.

 

[Nothing Is New]

Of course nothing is proven until several more years have passed. Right now, IMO they are about equal with Scheifele scoring a few more points and Coots playing lots of good two-way minutes. Scheif is getting better and has eased some concerns. But Coots has already provided the Flyers two good years.

The question remains whether Scheif was a better pick at draft time - based on all indications. I think I would take Scheifele head to head TODAY for Winnipeg. But I would hope that we don't make a habit of bypassing consensus higher rated players in the draft.

 

[Samcanadian]

For anyone to say Scheifele was a slam dunk at that draft spot, I'd probably disagree...but looking at everything we know, I wouldn't change a single thing about his development to this point.

 

[Scheifele55]

Winnipeg took a HUGE risk drafting Scheifele who had a meteoric rise up until his draft. He was probably the biggest reach in the NHL draft that year. Scheifele is 4th in scoring this year out of all the 2011 draft choices behind #1 #2 and Saad.

I am starting to believe that Scheifele could be the biggest steal in the draft. He has 21 points in the last 25 games which may be better than Nugent-Hopkins and Ladeskog over that period and Scheifele is making a case for Rookie of the Year.

 

[surixon]

I think Coots is the better player - as his defense is Little-like, and given a chance, his scoring could jump up too. Scheifele scores, and creates chances though (I certainly never thought he'd have this sort o offensive pressure) and that's what we need. Would easily take Scheifele over Coots right now especially with Burmistrov in he wings.

I don't get the if given a chance bit for Couturier. He is getting offensive looks this year. He gets 2nd unit pp time the sme as Mark and has spent a decent amount of time with Lecavier lately.

 

[ps241]

Of course nothing is proven until several more years have passed. Right now, IMO they are about equal with Scheifele scoring a few more points and Coots playing lots of good two-way minutes. Scheif is getting better and has eased some concerns. But Coots has already provided the Flyers two good years.

The question remains whether Scheif was a better pick at draft time - based on all indications. I think I would take Scheifele head to head TODAY for Winnipeg. But I would hope that we don't make a habit of bypassing consensus higher rated players in the draft.

To add to this point and the flip side of it is that Couts is in year 3 in the NHL and will become a UFA in 4 seasons (pending his next contract). Mark is in year 1 and will become a UFA in 6 seasons.

 

[truck]

Winnipeg took a HUGE risk drafting Scheifele who had a meteoric rise up until his draft. He was probably the biggest reach in the NHL draft that year. Scheifele is 4th in scoring this year out of all the 2011 draft choices behind #1 #2 and Saad.

I am starting to believe that Scheifele could be the biggest steal in the draft. He has 21 points in the last 25 games which may be better than Nugent-Hopkins and Ladeskog over that period and Scheifele is making a case for Rookie of the Year.

He definitely is playing well, but players like Brandan Saad, Andrew Shaw and Ondrej Palat were picked far deeper into the draft and look like legit steals.

 

[surixon]

He definitely is playing well, but players like Brandan Saad, Andrew Shaw and Ondrej Palat were picked far deeper into the draft and look like legit steals.

Yeah getting a first or 2nd line winger from the 2nd round is more of a steal than getting a potential 1st line center from the 7th overall pick. If he can more than cover the bet and turn into a two-way #1 it will be a big win for us regardless.

 

[Whileee]

He definitely is playing well, but players like Brandan Saad, Andrew Shaw and Ondrej Palat were picked far deeper into the draft and look like legit steals.

The common feature of those three is that they were picked up in the draft+1 or draft+2 eligible draft (at 20). They are all 22 years old this season.

That's why I like Chevy's selection of Lipon and Kichton down in the draft. We might get some good value in those picks because they were overlooked a bit due to their older age.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

The common feature of those three is that they were picked up in the draft+1 or draft+2 eligible draft (at 20). They are all 22 years old this season.

Saad wasn't a +1, 2011 was his first eligible year to be drafted.

You're right in that being an older 18 year old may have tempered his value.

 

[JetsFan815]

It's gonna be another 2-3 years before we definitively know which one of Zibenajad, Strome, Scheifele and Couturier was the best player but I think all these players look like legit NHL'ers which is the best you can hope for as a team.

On a sidenote, that 2011 draft looks like a really good draft for the NHL in hindsight. Every single one of the top 10 picks is playing in the NHL and making meaningful contributions.

 

[KingBogo]

Of course nothing is proven until several more years have passed. Right now, IMO they are about equal with Scheifele scoring a few more points and Coots playing lots of good two-way minutes. Scheif is getting better and has eased some concerns. But Coots has already provided the Flyers two good years.

The question remains whether Scheif was a better pick at draft time - based on all indications. I think I would take Scheifele head to head TODAY for Winnipeg. But I would hope that we don't make a habit of bypassing consensus higher rated players in the draft.

This is where I disagree. Consensus is media projections and fan speculation based on media projections. I'd much rather the Jets rely on their scouts and their order of ranking that they spend millions of dollars on rather then something you or I could print off free of charge on draft day.