Has Messi surpassed Gretzky/Jordan and others as the GOAT for all sports?

[blundluntman]

I'd argue his peak in 2007 is just as good if not better than most if not all QBs.

Perhaps it's arguable but Peyton, Mahomes and Rodgers at their best looked more impressive to me. Brady's 07 season is still around top 5

 

[ITM]

You are not going to get a consensus and definitely not in North America. Not everyone likes the same sports. There's a definite bias.

Bias doesn’t necessarily equate to error. You can have bias and be right.

I’m as big a hockey fan as I am a soccer fan. The argument used to include Pele vs Gretzky. I still think that’s a proper correlative given Pele’s numbers, championships in comparison to his peers.

Obviously I err towards Gretzky if only from the peer to peer comparison within sports and then the comparison to other sports’ best.

Does Messi have the same distance to his sports rival that Gretzky does to his? If not who is ahead of Messi and is that the player we should be comparing?

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Who says Messi is the GOAT soccer player?

Most people , The trio is pretty much Pele Maradona Messi at this point

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I played it after high school, I played varsity baseball my man. Did the reffing classes and played with friends for 2 years

A real manly game.

 

[The Note]

I am begging my fellow Americans who don't like soccer to either:
Just say you don't find it interesting -or- come up with a new shtick. The "they dive! not like me! I'm tough!" routine has been played out for like 15 years now.

 

[Dr Salt]

I don't know that he has separated himself from the likes of Ronaldo and Pele in the way that Gretzky or Bradman did from the rest of the pack to say this.

He definitely has.

 

[Ezekial]

Most people , The trio is pretty much Pele Maradona Messi at this point

I didn't realize he passed those two.

 

[amnesiac]

Brady
Gretzky
Jordan

Ali
Ruth
Messi
Djokovic
Nicklaus
Nurmagomedov
Lomu
Bolt
Phelps

honouable mentions:
Tiger
Lebron
Orr
Mario
Manning
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sanders
Federer
Nadal
Pele
Silva
GSP
Ohtani
Ted Williams
Richie McCaw

 

[x Tame Impala]

I am begging my fellow Americans who don't like soccer to either:
Just say you don't find it interesting -or- come up with a new shtick. The "they dive! not like me! I'm tough!" routine has been played out for like 15 years now.

Yet to be disproven though

 

[norrisnick]

Brady
Gretzky
Jordan

Ali
Ruth
Messi
Djokovic
Nicklaus
Nurmagomedov
Lomu
Bolt
Phelps

honouable mentions:
Tiger
Lebron
Orr
Mario
Manning
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sanders
Federer
Nadal
Pele
Silva
GSP
Ohtani
Ted Williams
Richie McCaw

Bradman, Karelin, Emelianenko

 

[Overrated]

Jordan in a no hand-check NBA would be unstoppable. NBA players past and present have said as much many many times.

I’m a biased American for sure but soccer is a boring game and I’ll never put Messi over greats like Jordan, Lebron, Gretzky, Lemieux, Bonds, Randy Johnson, Brady, Payton, etc…

Soccer sucks and is lame as f***. Come at me bro’s, as soon as you get up off the grass after faking an injury and crying your eyes out on global television

In America the kids who played soccer were the ones who didn’t have the strength, hand eye coordination, or quite frankly balls to play the real sports. I know Messi is supremely talented but it’s still soccer and I still don’t care about it. Never have never will. I played for about two years and even became a certified soccer ref at one point. It’s a lame game.

I hope you realize the US has produced exactly 0 stars in soccer's history. And I am not talking superstars. Basically in the top 50 best soccer players in the world there has never ever not even for a single season been a single American. So who gives a fck that soccer is a sport talented kids in America don't play when talented kids all over the world play soccer.

Nobody even bothers to make an argument for anyone other than Gretzky as the GOAT of Hockey.

Whereas people compare Ronaldo and Maradona to Messi and LeBron to Jordan.

Even if Messi and Jordan come ahead in those arguments, people still think there's room to make them.

I interpreted this question as "who is more untouchable in their sport" and thus my answer is Gretzky.

Nobody? There are threads all the time in here about whether Orr is the greatest or whether Lemieux peaked higher. People compare Ronaldo and Maradona to Messi for sentimental reasons. Unlike Americans most people couldn't care less about statistics, they vote based on emotion. Statistically Messi is far and beyond anyone and everyone.

 

[nowhereman]

I think there's a case to be made for it, as he's the best player of all time in the most popular (thus, most competitive) sport in the world. But there's an argument for Pele or Maradona, if one wants to make it. On the other hand, I don't think there's an athlete who dominated their respective sport quite like Gretzky. Phelps, Lomu, Williams, Bradman, Ruth and Jordan are in the conversation but I think Wayne takes it for unattainable greatness.

 

[Mobiandi]

Messi is so much further ahead of the rest of the pack in any other sport

 

[Overrated]

Thats not true. Messi in his peak scored 91 goals in year. Haaland has 50 something goals. If you add Haaland's goals + Mbappe goals this season it's still less than what Messi scored in 2012.

Thats my point, Messi has been so dominant, it's hard to pin point what he did because we never had time to let it sit. He breaks records every season... Him winning the World cup as a slow 36 year old, is the last image of him people have. But thats the worst version of Messi. He's just that good that at 35-36 he takes his nation to a World Cup agaisnt peak Mbappe at age 24
View attachment 730725

If secondary assists were counted CR7 and Lewa and Suarez wouldn't even have their one season I bet.

 

[McFlash97]

Only person you can compare to Messi in any North American teams sports is Gretzky. The Wizardry and being born to play a sport. Gretzky much like Messi was just so far ahead of his peers at reading the games. IQ for both, off the charts.

 

[al secord]

Yet to be disproven though

You have a basketball player in your avatar. "Drawing a charge." Is a dive. Your sport celebrates diving. ...or flopping...difference is, 7ft , 300lbs of muscle do it.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Only person you can compare to Messi in any North American teams sports is Gretzky. The Wizardry and being born to play a sport. Gretzky much like Messi was just so far ahead of his peers at reading the games. IQ for both, off the charts.

Their rivals were arguably physically harder to stop too in Ronaldo and Lemieux, in terms of the athlete you would build to play their sport.

My struggle with Messi which to be clear was allowed medically by doctors, but he was given HGH injections after being diagnoses with GHD as a teen. It is also a topic that neither Barcelona or Messi were particularly willing to comment on throughout his career. We can assume/hope he came off of it as an adult but he would more than likely be ineligible to be tested by WADA as the result of his diagnosis.

 

[TBF1972]

I can understand the Messi argument due to global nature of the sport, but from a Canadian perspective and North American perspective in general, I think people would defer to someone outside of soccer…so Canadians might lean towards Gretzky and Americans may lean to someone like Jordan. My other issue with Messi is lots of people would argue Ronaldo over him…I’m not into the sport enough to argue that, but the point is, people can argue that without being complete idiots….even if there was no question…he didn’t dominate the field like Gretzky or Jordan.

there are three type of people, who would argue cristiano over messi:
- portugues
- fans of real madrid
- people who have no clue about football/ soccer

there is no reasonable argument for cristiano.

 

[J bo Jeans]

When comparing GOATS from different sports you have to take in consideration how popular each sport is. When you're the GOAT in soccer, you beat out BILLIONS of other players. To be the GOAT in hockey you beat out Millions.

Gretzky dominated more relative to his peers than Messi, but its easier to dominate a pool of millions than billions.

Therefore to be dominating in soccer is somewhat more impressive, not taking away anything from Gretzky who is easily a top 2-5 athlete of all time.

 

[Peat]

I'm slightly shocked to see people putting Lomu out there. Guy was iconic and super talented but his try scoring record isn't at all dominant compared to other All Black wingers - Savea, Howlett, Rokocoko, Wilson, Kirwan, Ioane all guys with comfortably better strike rates.

Tbh, I can't think of a player who's held higher for doing less in his sport. Like, he's fantastic... but so were many.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You have a basketball player in your avatar. "Drawing a charge." Is a dive. Your sport celebrates diving. ...or flopping...difference is, 7ft , 300lbs of muscle do it.

In actual basketball if you flop on a charge it's a technical foul.

Brady
Gretzky
Jordan

Ali
Ruth
Messi
Djokovic
Nicklaus
Nurmagomedov
Lomu
Bolt
Phelps

honouable mentions:
Tiger
Lebron
Orr
Mario
Manning
Sugar Ray Robinson
Sanders
Federer
Nadal
Pele
Silva
GSP
Ohtani
Ted Williams
Richie McCaw

Ohtani belongs nowhere near this list. And Bonds should be close to the top.

 

[Despote]

Nurmagomedov

You can argue that Khabib isn't top 10 in his own sport let alone all sports.

 

[MadLuke]

I would then argue that become a pro soccer player is not any harder given the shear number of professional leagues around the world vs ice hockey.

Yes which make becoming the best pro soccer player even more impressive (there is not one that would have challenged you that did not because he was on a slower development path and could not get a break on a roster in a key position)

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Its Messi. No disrespect to Gretzky but 95% of the world does not even know of sport named Ice Hockey or who Wayne Gretzky is...

 

[amnesiac]

In actual basketball if you flop on a charge it's a technical foul.


Ohtani belongs nowhere near this list. And Bonds should be close to the top.

Disagree…. I can only imagine if Ohtani was juiced.

Ohtani’s past 2 seasons are already better than any season Bonds put up pre-juice