Speculation: Has Adam Oates Been Fired Yet????

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Roughing

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Oct 11, 2010
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Someone explain Oates' system to me. Seriously. While there has definitely been a "country club" atmosphere here, which I hate, I don't think they have a clue what they're supposed to do on the ice and/or don't want to do it because they know it's ****ing stupid. Beyond anything else, they played hard for Dale. This team is more in need of a veteran (likely hardass) coach than any professional sports team I've ever seen.
 

RandyHolt

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All I know is a 2 on 4 against its the responsibility of the 4 to go to their zones, and concede the shot. We hope to force the forward to an angle such that the save springs us into a break the other way.
 
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KevinM

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Is the system making the players look bad or is the lack of execution by the players making the system look bad? Or both? A question for the ages.
 

NobodyBeatsTheWiz

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Someone explain Oates' system to me. Seriously. While there has definitely been a "country club" atmosphere here, which I hate, I don't think they have a clue what they're supposed to do on the ice and/or don't want to do it because they know it's ****ing stupid. Beyond anything else, they played hard for Dale. This team is more in need of a veteran (likely hardass) coach than any professional sports team I've ever seen.

Well the few things I've picked up:

- Defensemen must move the puck within 5 seconds in the defensive zone
- Sticks of screeners are not to be taken away
- Forced turnovers in the neutral zone may not be turned into rushes. The pucks must be recycled back through the defense before methodically plodding up the ice.

Beyond those things, there's obviously an emphasis on the dump and chase and cycling in the offensive zone. The major problem with that is the team was not constructed to play in that manner. How many good forecheckers are there? 3-4? How someone who is supposed such a smart tactician cannot adapt his stone age tactics to his particular personnel, I do not know.

I've been thinking for a while that Oates isn't a particularly smart hockey mind at all, he just had superior instincts as a player.
 

usiel

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Oates's system... I don't know.... it sounded decent when he first got hired. With the eye test feels like it can be a little passive and predictable and on the D side maybe a bit rigid on the D side.

On the offense side sometimes it seems like the the other team knows and anticipates exactly what the Oate's offensive predicates. At the same time might not totally be a fair judge coming from the vulnerabilities on the D side.

On the defense front I favor I believe D coverage is man to man. I favor more of a zone D. Caps have played both that last few years. Just seems like man on man once a dman is playing behind the other player it opens up things.

I'm no hockey strategy guy but sometimes it feels they are predictable and a little passive and a bit rigid in the sense sometimes impose a plan that doesn't necessarily fit the personnel.
 

RandyHolt

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Treat every opposition player as a junior Oates, a cerebral player, and favor the pass, and have no concerns about their shot and speed. Don't play the shot, no blocked shots attempted, oh and don't hit them. They didnt like to be hit as players.
 

RandyHolt

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I see no sign that Oates is realizing his system has failed.

He blames an icing. During his era, icing was used by all teams to relieve pressure. The limiting of line changes aside, its still better to ice it instead of turn it over for a odd man against.

His system has players so confused that we cannot even execute a faceoff, and he blames an icing. 4 failures off the draw. How can the team expect to get better when the problem with those 4, was the icing?

We eek out our wins on the PP and shootout. Should we be gifted in, we are going to get smoked in the playoffs.
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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I see no sign that Oates is realizing his system has failed.

He blames an icing. During his era, icing was used by all teams to relieve pressure. The limiting of line changes aside, its still better to ice it instead of turn it over for a odd man against.

His system has players so confused that we cannot even execute a faceoff, and he blames an icing. 4 failures off the draw. How can the team expect to get better when the problem with those 4, was the icing?

We eek out our wins on the PP and shootout. Should we be gifted in, we are going to get smoked in the playoffs.

He's always talking about "the mistake". Like there's one or two THINGS he can isolate and then fix with his convoluted methods. The problem isn't the system or motivation or anything else, it's A MISTAKE made by the players, who he will name in the press before even engaging in his method of consulting with his coaches to determine the best way to gently approach the player about it.

Yet at the same time he blows off talk about mistakes and claims he doesn't want to dwell on that stuff, and that he'd rather build players up with positives and encouragement because that's what he wanted as a player.

:help:

It's a pattern with Oates. He wants it both ways in all things and he talks out of both sides of his mouth: It's a rookie mistake, but vets make it. Stats are meaningless, but Beagle was on the wrong side for a faceoff because of percentages. He's not engaging in amateur psychology, but then describes a litany of amateur shrink moves and theories. He doesn't yell, but claims he's raised his voice.


Oates is a narcissistic ******** artist who pays lip service to the concept of treating players like he wanted to be treated while he cherrypicks the aspects of coaching and leadership he feels comfortable with.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

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Well the few things I've picked up:

- Defensemen must move the puck within 5 seconds in the defensive zone
- Sticks of screeners are not to be taken away
- Forced turnovers in the neutral zone may not be turned into rushes. The pucks must be recycled back through the defense before methodically plodding up the ice.

Beyond those things, there's obviously an emphasis on the dump and chase and cycling in the offensive zone. The major problem with that is the team was not constructed to play in that manner. How many good forecheckers are there? 3-4? How someone who is supposed such a smart tactician cannot adapt his stone age tactics to his particular personnel, I do not know.

I've been thinking for a while that Oates isn't a particularly smart hockey mind at all, he just had superior instincts as a player.

I will add:

- there seems to be little to no emphasis on putting bodies in front of the net and making life uncomfortable for the opposing goalie.
- the entire team is seemingly told not to block shots. The emphasis seems to be on getting out of the way so the goalie can see the puck.
- if the right break-out pass is not there right away, flip the puck to center and hope for the best.
- if by chance you do get a rush, wait for a defenseman to join the play before doing anything in the offensive zone.
 

Capsman

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Nov 21, 2008
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Is the system making the players look bad or is the lack of execution by the players making the system look bad? Or both? A question for the ages.

We have two proven, bona fide star forwards. We have at least 3 other solid, proven top 6 forwards (MJ, Grabo, and Brouwer). We have a formidable 3rd line. We have a couple solid young talents in Wilson and Kuznetsov. On defense we have a US olympian and his solid partner as a first pairing. Our second pairing is a couple guys with excellent puck moving skills. We have a guy in Hershey who in my mind is a solid 2nd pairing guy in the making(Schmidt).

Why on earth would execution suddenly suck for everybody but the 3rd line? Because that is the only round peg for the round hole. Everything else is a square peg that he is trying to force into a round hole. it is perfectly OK for different lines to have different approaches. It is perfectly OK for guys like Green and Orlov to carry the puck up ice, and in fact when they do so the defense collapses on them which should open up our offense. But it's outside the game plan, so forwards have no idea what the hell to do when that happens and it ends up with a 60 foot Orlov shot.
 

g00n

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Also, I heard an interview with Marcin Gortat of the Wizards yesterday. The guy talked about all the sacrifices you have to make and your obligations to your teammates to put in the work day and night, and to "find the limit and push yourself beyond it" in order to take the next step as a player and a team. If you're not holding up your end, the guys in the locker room will let you know QUICKLY.

Compare that to Oates' style of trying to keep the veteran players "fresh" and not stress them out too much, while waiting to consult his staff on how best to approach his stars about a Mistake. And players who shrug their shoulders and say "I guess we weren't ready" and claim it makes no difference to make those "movie speeches".

Maybe that stark contrast is one of the reasons the Wiz are in the playoffs for the first time in 6 years, and the Caps are about to miss the playoffs for the first time in 6 years.
 

RandyHolt

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He's always talking about "the mistake". Like there's one or two THINGS he can isolate and then fix with his convoluted methods. The problem isn't the system or motivation or anything else, it's A MISTAKE made by the players, who he will name in the press before even engaging in his method of consulting with his coaches to determine the best way to gently approach the player about it.

....

Another great post.

So a guy feels forced to ice it after missing a good passing opportunity. BFD. A guy missing a pass happens countless times a game. Oates probably has that guy counting steps, distracted by the system.

Oates seems desperate to assign blame, grasping at straws to focus on innocent well intented plays as the problem, to mask the real problem. His system.

And in doing so, admits to make sure he goes around the room to make sure to assign blame to everyone. Everyone, but him.

Good one, Adam
 

swimmer77

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Well then - so Oates' system evolves around dump and chase and grind. So that explains why Chim and Ward excel. Chim has the speed to get to the puck and Ward has the moxie to win a board battle or two. The skilled players, because of the handedness crap and lack of motivation (?), have minimal creativity.

The D zone coverage is a complete mess. Saw no explanation for that. Make them play man to man.

Seemingly, it's always like a calculated, numbers game with Oates except the Caps are not very good mathematicians. The only numbers game the Caps win is the amount of scoring chances and odd man rushes they allow. Out of the games I've watched I honestly don't remember seeing a team give up as many odd man rushes in short order as the Caps did the other night. They are lucky it was only 5 zip.
 

Blades of Steel

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Its really simple, if the caps didn't have a player that could score goals of Ovechkins caliber, the power play would have been much worse, and we would be in dead last or near dead last.
 

BobRouse

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Mar 18, 2009
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We have two proven, bona fide star forwards. We have at least 3 other solid, proven top 6 forwards (MJ, Grabo, and Brouwer). We have a formidable 3rd line. We have a couple solid young talents in Wilson and Kuznetsov. On defense we have a US olympian and his solid partner as a first pairing. Our second pairing is a couple guys with excellent puck moving skills. We have a guy in Hershey who in my mind is a solid 2nd pairing guy in the making(Schmidt).

Why on earth would execution suddenly suck for everybody but the 3rd line? Because that is the only round peg for the round hole. Everything else is a square peg that he is trying to force into a round hole. it is perfectly OK for different lines to have different approaches. It is perfectly OK for guys like Green and Orlov to carry the puck up ice, and in fact when they do so the defense collapses on them which should open up our offense. But it's outside the game plan, so forwards have no idea what the hell to do when that happens and it ends up with a 60 foot Orlov shot.

All this is true.

Oates feeling the pinch that the team is quitting on him. To save face he does what the media wanted...scapegoat Ovechkin.
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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If you weren't ready to run Oates out of town, you will be when you read this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...in-beagle-experiment-that-line-hasnt-hurt-us/

“I read the comments [about playing Ovechkin and Beagle] but we started it and we got points in [six] out of eight games that we did it,†Oates said. “The results I was looking for is the balance in the lines that you’re always looking for in terms of who you play, the pace of our game. Guys have strengths and weaknesses no question but Grabo was banged up. We were weak in the middle and we’ve had guys playing center that aren’t centers. You’re doing a little bit of a patchwork jut to keep the pace of the game going.

“I thought that line hasn’t hurt us. They didn’t get scored on the whole [California] trip, obviously our five on five numbers have got to improve,†Oates said. “I’m always focused on Ovi in terms of getting him his touches and goals, no question. But the team still comes first and he knows that. He knows how I feel and we talk about that all the time.â€


196696371_5bb3550412.jpg
 

swimmer77

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I keep waiting for the subject title to change again....................something like...............

Adam Oates Has Been Fired
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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Missing from another version of this quote is the infamous "it is what it is":

“It is what it is,” said the Capitals’ captain, per CSN Washington. “He’s the head coach. I get the blame for it. In that moment I think everybody quit on the play.”

Welp, that's it. That's about as close to a middle finger as you're going to get from Ovechkin. IIWII has been dropped and hands have been washed.
 
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