Prospect Info: Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL)/Maine Mariners (ECHL) Thread *Part X*

[ManUtdTobbe]

This board is well known for hating any physical, stay at home, smart defensive defenseman who don't skate very fast. Sadly the Rangers fan base has adopted AV's idiotic philosophy on players that they have to skate fast and move the puck. Which is a big reason this team has no clue how to play defense or where to stand in order to prevent goals. Lindgren is probably the Pack's best defenseman by far. However, since he doesn't fit the AV mold, our wanna be scouts don't like him. Nothing new on these boards.

Gilmour for example is a heaping pile tie of crap compared to Lindgren. He is one of the worst defensive defenseman I've seen in this organization the past 10 years. However, he moves the puck, skates fast so our AV thinkers like him. Gimme a break.

Lindgren Packs best D-man? LMAO... I'm guessing you've seen about 0 Pack games because Lindgren isn't a top 4 D-man on this Pack team.

Gilmour is multiple tiers above Lindgren right now, Lindgren has upside though.

 

[Don Chytil]

Please tell me this post is meant as a joke?

Pretty sure that whole account is a joke/poor attempt at trolling

 

[tradenashnow]

No joke. This board has hated safe, stay at home defenseman ever since AV was hired. The Rangers scouting department, you know, the guys who actually know how to evaluate players unlike the wanna be scouts on this board, state Lindgren and Hajek are right on track. Gilmour is a piece a garbage. He has no ability to play defense on the NHL level. Lindgren should be playing 20 minutes a game. Gilmour should be released. He has no NHL future.

 

[cwede]

... Gilmour should be released. He has no NHL future.

2 straight AHL All*, he should have trade value.

My wish reasonable deal would be for Pionk's exUMD mate Toninato, to me he is maybe better all round than Lettieri, but lesser scoring touch

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

No joke. This board has hated safe, stay at home defenseman ever since AV was hired. The Rangers scouting department, you know, the guys who actually know how to evaluate players unlike the wanna be scouts on this board, state Lindgren and Hajek are right on track. Gilmour is a piece a garbage. He has no ability to play defense on the NHL level. Lindgren should be playing 20 minutes a game. Gilmour should be released. He has no NHL future.

Genuine question: if you don’t like or value anyone’s opinion here, why do you keep coming back?

 

[Fireonk]

This board is well known for hating any physical, stay at home, smart defensive defenseman who don't skate very fast. Sadly the Rangers fan base has adopted AV's idiotic philosophy on players that they have to skate fast and move the puck. Which is a big reason this team has no clue how to play defense or where to stand in order to prevent goals. Lindgren is probably the Pack's best defenseman by far. However, since he doesn't fit the AV mold, our wanna be scouts don't like him. Nothing new on these boards.

Gilmour for example is a heaping pile of crap compared to Lindgren. He is one of the worst defensive defenseman I've seen in this organization the past 10 years. However, he moves the puck, skates fast so our AV thinkers like him. Gimme a break.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument. Rangers Prospect Ranking (Summer 2018) - FINAL LIST

Lindgren voted our 10th best prospect, Gilmour at 26 back in July. Everyone must hate him!!!

 

[nyr2k2]

Lindgren Packs best D-man? LMAO... I'm guessing you've seen about 0 Pack games because Lindgren isn't a top 4 D-man on this Pack team.

Gilmour is multiple tiers above Lindgren right now, Lindgren has upside though.

O'Gara, who could be playing in the NHL in some capacity, is clearly better. Bigras brings more right now and is more mature, but that's to be expected given he's in his fourth pro season. Hajek has been pretty good in my estimation, generally good defensively for a rookie but not yet possessing the confidence to push the play like I think he can. So, for sure three guys are ahead of Lindgren. That brings us to Gilmour.

I just don't like Gilmour. He's reckless and I don't think he's particularly concerned with playing defense. I hesitate to call him a defenseman. He's a rover, if you ask me. The offense he contributes is nice, but he doesn't even really drive the play that much more than Bigras who is reasonably capable and at least dedicated to defending his own end. I'd put Crawley even with Gilmour in terms of playing like an actual defenseman (yep, I'm serious). I hope they don't bring Gilmour back because I think he's a net negative.

So, for me, I'd have no problem stating Lindgren is the fourth-best defenseman on the team at the moment. Probably with the second-highest upside.

 

[ThirdEye]

No joke. This board has hated safe, stay at home defenseman ever since AV was hired. The Rangers scouting department, you know, the guys who actually know how to evaluate players unlike the wanna be scouts on this board, state Lindgren and Hajek are right on track. Gilmour is a piece a garbage. He has no ability to play defense on the NHL level. Lindgren should be playing 20 minutes a game. Gilmour should be released. He has no NHL future.

Can you please refer me the posts were all these people are calling Lindgren "garbage"? In fact, your post is the only time I've ever heard him and "garbage" mentioned in the same sentence.

Same with Gilmour... the consensus here is that he's at best a career AHL'er and I haven't heard much push back on that consensus, so to me you're making stuff up

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

If we had enough actual data for the AHL i'd bet Gilmour would be looked at as Packs best D-man @nyr2k2. Gilmour is imo not bad defensively at all, he's not great at it, but not bad. He plays a bit of a high risk game but to me he's a pretty big net positive. He also had good numbers in the NHL last season which helps my view.

 

[nyr2k2]

If we had enough actual data for the AHL i'd bet Gilmour would be looked at as Packs best D-man @nyr2k2. Gilmour is imo not bad defensively at all, he's not great at it, but not bad. He plays a bit of a high risk game but to me he's a pretty big net positive. He also had good numbers in the NHL last season which helps my view.

Well Pionk has had "good numbers" since he's broken in, but we know his advanced stats have been terrible. I would guess Gilmour is the same. IDK. Agree to disagree. I think his defense is a tire fire.

 

[ThirdEye]

He's a -75 in his 185 games split between the AHL and NHL. +/- is not the end all, but it's hard to ignore that

Pionk is a -15 in 115 games for reference

 

[UnSandvich]

He's a -75 in his 185 games split between the AHL and NHL. +/- is not the end all, but it's hard to ignore that

Pionk is a -15 in 115 games for reference

Counterpoint: Remember how terrible the Pack was in 16-17? Gilmour was a -39 that year.

 

[Osminator]

Counterpoint: Remember how terrible the Pack was in 16-17? Gilmour was a -39 that year.

What a FLASHBACK that stat gave me just now lol... that was worst in the entire AHL.

 

[nyr2k2]

Counterpoint: Remember how terrible the Pack was in 16-17? Gilmour was a -39 that year.

The next-worst defenseman to play the whole year in Hartford was Ryan Graves at -17. Luminaries such as Mat Bodie and Tommy Hughes were -14 and -13, respectively.

Steven Kampfer was -22 in just 43 games, but +/- is an impossible stat to prorate.

Gilmour was abhorrent.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

This board is well known for hating any physical, stay at home, smart defensive defenseman who don't skate very fast. Sadly the Rangers fan base has adopted AV's idiotic philosophy on players that they have to skate fast and move the puck. Which is a big reason this team has no clue how to play defense or where to stand in order to prevent goals. Lindgren is probably the Pack's best defenseman by far. However, since he doesn't fit the AV mold, our wanna be scouts don't like him. Nothing new on these boards.

Gilmour for example is a heaping pile of crap compared to Lindgren. He is one of the worst defensive defenseman I've seen in this organization the past 10 years. However, he moves the puck, skates fast so our AV thinkers like him. Gimme a break.

You've been a member of these boards for less than a year. I don't think that's enough time to say "well known".

 

[nyr2k2]

You've been a member of these boards for less than a year. I don't think that's enough time to say "well known".

Tip from a former admin/mod: when someone constantly refers to an extensive knowledge of the board, tendencies, posters, etc., and they've been here for a year or less, they haven't really been here for a year or less. Not their first time at this rodeo, if you catch my drift.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Tip from a former admin/mod: when someone constantly refers to an extensive knowledge of the board, tendencies, posters, etc., and they've been here for a year or less, they haven't really been here for a year or less. Not their first time at this rodeo, if you catch my drift.

Yet something still never gets done about it, especially when it's blatantly obvious that there's two other accounts that have the same exact MO and posting style. Hell, my post is the one that's gonna get deleted and I'll be the infracted one for this, but c'est la vie.

 

[UnSandvich]

The next-worst defenseman to play the whole year in Hartford was Ryan Graves at -17. Luminaries such as Mat Bodie and Tommy Hughes were -14 and -13, respectively.

Steven Kampfer was -22 in just 43 games, but +/- is an impossible stat to prorate.

Gilmour was abhorrent.

To be clear, not saying he wasn't. Just that the 16-17 season makes it seem worse than it probably is (I also put 0 stock in +/-, so there's that too)

 

[nyr2k2]

To be clear, not saying he wasn't. Just that the 16-17 season makes it seem worse than it probably is (I also put 0 stock in +/-, so there's that too)

Yeah, agreed.

I don't put a ton of stock into +/- either, though when you're consistently among the worst on your team as a defenseman despite not drawing anywhere near the toughest match ups, it sort of looks like a bad trend.

 

[nyr2k2]

Maine lost 8-4. Ronning scored a goal.

After a stellar debut, Toivonen allowed 7 goals on 32 shots.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Well Pionk has had "good numbers" since he's broken in, but we know his advanced stats have been terrible. I would guess Gilmour is the same. IDK. Agree to disagree. I think his defense is a tire fire.

When i say he had good numbers in the NHL i mean his underlying numbers. And Gilmour plays a very different game to Pionk, i'd guess he has very very good underlying numbers, but that's just a guess of course.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

He's a -75 in his 185 games split between the AHL and NHL. +/- is not the end all, but it's hard to ignore that

Pionk is a -15 in 115 games for reference

Never ever use +/-, it's not just "not the end all", it's a stat which is plain bad and makes any argument you make worse.

 

[tradenashnow]

Gilmour was one of the worst defensive defenseman I've seen in a long, long, time when he played some for the big club. He is awful. I've accepted that most of our fan base likes clueless, small, puck moving defenseman like DeAngelo who are never in the right place in the defense zone and can't move anybody in the crease. Worse yet, they will come up with useless, geek stats to try and counter that analysis. Just open your eyes. He sucks also.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Gilmour was one of the worst defensive defenseman I've seen in a long, long, time when he played some for the big club. He is awful. I've accepted that most of our fan base likes clueless, small, puck moving defenseman like DeAngelo who are never in the right place in the defense zone and can't move anybody in the crease. Worse yet, they will come up with useless, geek stats to try and counter that analysis. Just open your eyes. He sucks also.

Open your eyes, your analysis sucks.

No chance we can get this guy out of this thread? He adds absolutely no value with any of his posts.

 

[UnSandvich]

Open your eyes, your analysis sucks.

No chance we can get this guy out of this thread? He adds absolutely no value with any of his posts.

I disagree. He provides similar value to the defensive defenseman he so loves, like today's McQuaid, Girardi, and Staal.