Proposal: Hanifin to Dallas

[MNRube]

As a Flames fan I would do this. I would probably try to send Hanifin with an extension+ whatever is necessary for a younger C like Anton Lundell or C prospect like Matthew Savoie first, but those are much more unrealistic and this seems like as fair of an offer as we'd get.

Lundell has been horrific this year. Might be a good chance to buy low I guess

 

[Magic Mittens]

I'd be asking for Mavrik Bourque, Logan Stankoven, and a 2024 2nd.

Not sure what water your drinking in Calgary, but thank God I'm not drinking it lol

Come on dude, that's terrible

 

[Mike Jones]

Gilbert, Oesterle, DeSimone, and Rooney (when healthy) simply don't have much trade value at all. They might get a combined 6th rounder in value but more likely future considerations or a throw in with one of the big guys.

Greer has trade value but probably a 4th at most

Kylington probably won't be traded at all as he hasn't played in so long. I think he's more likely to stay with the Flames and sign an extension

Then obviously the big 3 have good value

Even if they bring in a 6th or 7th it all adds up.

I didn't count Kylington in with the other FAs that can be traded.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Good player but far from a cornerstone piece. Pure supporting cast.

Hanifin makes perfect sense for contender with a clear cut number one. He makes no sense in a rebuild.

xG is such a flawed stat box. Hanifin is perfectly cast as the B part of your 1st pair or the A part of a 2nd pair.

You guys are saying the exact same thing. He is a very good #2 and elite if in a #3 role. I don't think anyone is calling him a #1 by any stretch of the imagination. But with Dallas they already have a top 10 defenseman in Miro, he just lacks that great partner D. Hanifin with his playstyle and age would be a fantastic fit there. It would be on par with how Boston added Lindholm to play with McAvoy

 

[Double Dion]

You guys are saying the exact same thing. He is a very good #2 and elite if in a #3 role. I don't think anyone is calling him a #1 by any stretch of the imagination. But with Dallas they already have a top 10 defenseman in Miro, he just lacks that great partner D. Hanifin with his playstyle and age would be a fantastic fit there. It would be on par with how Boston added Lindholm to play with McAvoy

This is a good post. I see him as a H. Lindholm/ D. Toews type.

 

[Blueston]

After listening to Eric Francis on today's Jeff Marek show and reading some of the posts and threads around here I'm starting to think that mediocrity is what people in Calgary actually want. They don't want a team that recognizes reality, goes into a rebuild, and comes out the other side a better team. They want a team that's always in a playoff hunt but never Stanley Cup contention.

This TDL is a serious opportunity to do a surgical 7-8 trade teardown, turn a corner and work towards something new. It's just bizarre to see so few people actually want that.

Yes, they should emulate Sabres or red wings and plan to miss playoffs for next decade. How silly they would want to avoid that path and try to return to playoffs in next couple years.

 

[Mike Jones]

Yes, they should emulate Sabres or red wings and plan to miss playoffs for next decade. How silly they would want to avoid that path and try to return to playoffs in next couple years.

There are good rebuilds and not-so-good rebuilds. There are best practices that work and lots of things that don't. The best rebuilds are about five years - 2 years of tear down - roughly two years of playoff contention and year 5 pushing past the first round. But to do that you have to do critical things like gathering, keeping, using and developing draft picks. That's one of the many things the Oilers failed to do in their hideous rebuild. They acquired picks and then threw them away. They could never make up their mind what they were doing and it bit them several times.

Rebuilds can work and it doesn't help anybody to write the process off.

 

[Blueston]

There are good rebuilds and not-so-good rebuilds. There are best practices that work and lots of things that don't. The best rebuilds are about five years - 2 years of tear down - roughly two years of playoff contention and year 5 pushing past the first round. But to do that you have to do critical things like gathering, keeping, using and developing draft picks. That's one of the many things the Oilers failed to do in their hideous rebuild. They acquired picks and then threw them away. They could never make up their mind what they were doing and it bit them several times.

Rebuilds can work and it doesn't help anybody to write the process off.

As a blues fan, we are in similar boat. And while some folks think that we should deal off all the good vets so we can have better shot at getting top pick, it’s not clear that is really better path. Yes, flames should be clear eyed about where they are and what they need, but there is solid argument to be made that if you keep core of good players and try to maintain competitive culture that you as franchise are better off. Obviously drafting and developing well is always key in a rebuild, but my larger point is that embracing the suck is risky and for fans or teams to want to avoid that in favor of smaller retool/rebuild and quicker return to playoffs shouldn't just be dismissed as folly by folks.

 

[Johno]

Seems a little lite to me, but not terrible. I'd counter if I was the Flames, but if this is the best they can do... It's a deal you probably make at the last moment before the TDL expires.

If Dallas is desperate today due to their injury Situation to their 1D, then I'd demand Mavrik Bourque + 2nd rounder and filler like Faska or whomever Dallas needed to dump that's on an expiring contract.

I’d rather call up and play Petrovic for the rest of the year than lose Bourque.

Besides that the Stars should be looking for a RHD partner for Miro.

 

[DJJones]

Hanifin is a solid #2, likely around 40-45th in rankings. Been consistent enough that shouldn't be much of a debate.

If he spiked offense more then he'd be a #1. Not sure why people always seem to lump players as either elite or trash. See the same thing with Lindholm, "you can't pay him 8M, he only gets' 60-70 points". Like ya, if he got 80-90 points he'd get 11 or 12 million.

 

[DJJones]

There are good rebuilds and not-so-good rebuilds. There are best practices that work and lots of things that don't. The best rebuilds are about five years - 2 years of tear down - roughly two years of playoff contention and year 5 pushing past the first round. But to do that you have to do critical things like gathering, keeping, using and developing draft picks. That's one of the many things the Oilers failed to do in their hideous rebuild. They acquired picks and then threw them away. They could never make up their mind what they were doing and it bit them several times.

Rebuilds can work and it doesn't help anybody to write the process off.

This isn't even a rebuild imo. Selling UFAs when your team is not contending just makes sense. Lindholm and Hanifin have big value because they make hardly any money. If they both make 7-9M next year they lose a lot of that value.

Calgary will still likely spend to the cap next year. Those players are impossible to replace with ~16M in cap space. It's difficult and requires some luck but it's not some team destroying move.

 

[Spotty 2 Hotty]

I’d rather call up and play Petrovic for the rest of the year than lose Bourque.

Besides that the Stars should be looking for a RHD partner for Miro.

I get where you're coming from, but I do not give a shit what handedness a partner for Miro is, he just needs to be quality. Our defenseman signings haven't been great as of late, so I just ain't trying to see Nill go and sign someone like Tyler Myers because he's a RHD, lol.

 

[Mike Jones]

As a blues fan, we are in similar boat. And while some folks think that we should deal off all the good vets so we can have better shot at getting top pick, it’s not clear that is really better path. Yes, flames should be clear eyed about where they are and what they need, but there is solid argument to be made that if you keep core of good players and try to maintain competitive culture that you as franchise are better off. Obviously drafting and developing well is always key in a rebuild, but my larger point is that embracing the suck is risky and for fans or teams to want to avoid that in favor of smaller retool/rebuild and quicker return to playoffs shouldn't just be dismissed as folly by folks.

The more you do at the front end of a rebuild the less suffering that has to be endured later. Holding players back and signing extensions only prolongs the agony. The Flames are in a position where they can clear 7-9 people out in short order and perhaps shorten the tear down phase by over a year. Signing guys like Hanifan to extensions only prolongs the teardown and delays the return to the playoffs.

 

[Mike Jones]

This isn't even a rebuild imo. Selling UFAs when your team is not contending just makes sense. Lindholm and Hanifin have big value because they make hardly any money. If they both make 7-9M next year they lose a lot of that value.

Calgary will still likely spend to the cap next year. Those players are impossible to replace with ~16M in cap space. It's difficult and requires some luck but it's not some team destroying move.

It's one part of a rebuild. It's like renovating a house. You gut the place and then you build it back better.

As I've said elsewhere, teams may be tempted to sign people to extensions but that only prolongs the agony. They have to rip the band aid off and then start drafting and developing. If a team wants leadership and veterans they can make waiver claims and sign free agents.

 

[Double Dion]

I like the defenseman package that was offered. Bourque or Stankoven don't have to be part of a trade for Hanifin. Bisschel or Kyrou would be fine. Bisschel and a 2nd or Kyrou and a 1st. If you want to dump a Faksa to make the money work on us that's fine.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

This isn't even a rebuild imo. Selling UFAs when your team is not contending just makes sense. Lindholm and Hanifin have big value because they make hardly any money. If they both make 7-9M next year they lose a lot of that value.

Calgary will still likely spend to the cap next year. Those players are impossible to replace with ~16M in cap space. It's difficult and requires some luck but it's not some team destroying move.

I doubt it. Calgary probably doesn't have more than 80M on the cap next year if they sell those guys. They aren't going to go big name hunting (or at least shouldn't be) for like Reinhart or Guentzel because they will cost ~10M to sign.

 

[Double Dion]

I doubt it. Calgary probably doesn't have more than 80M on the cap next year if they sell those guys. They aren't going to go big name hunting (or at least shouldn't be) for like Reinhart or Guentzel because they will cost ~10M to sign.

Cap space isn't really an issue for us. I'm hoping Conroy can move one of Markstrom or Kadri too this year. A trained seal could move out the UFAs. If he can move out one of those 2 he's a worthy GM.

You're probably right on UFA price tags. I'm fine signing short term deals to flip, but we shouldn't be signing any long term deals this summer.

 

[DJJones]

I doubt it. Calgary probably doesn't have more than 80M on the cap next year if they sell those guys. They aren't going to go big name hunting (or at least shouldn't be) for like Reinhart or Guentzel because they will cost ~10M to sign.

If they can trade Lindholm and bring back an equivalent center as Ufa they would 100 percent do that.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Cap space isn't really an issue for us. I'm hoping Conroy can move one of Markstrom or Kadri too this year. A trained seal could move out the UFAs. If he can move out one of those 2 he's a worthy GM.

You're probably right on UFA price tags. I'm fine signing short term deals to flip, but we shouldn't be signing any long term deals this summer.

Markstrom has full control over his location and I would rather keep him to mentor Wolf the same way Rinne mentored Saros and how Gibson is currently mentoring Dostal. Marky has already proven to be very good at that role in the way he openly supports, encourages, and offers advice to his backup when he is on the bench, while also not taking it to heart that he is not the only playing.

Kadri will be next to impossible to move due to his age and term. Edwards will never let us retain on a deal like that either.

I have no issue with short term additions for stability but our main focus should be adding players drafted in 2018 and forward. Like I think it's pretty likely Kylington signs and extension almost out of loyalty and to prove himself again but I would not be particularly interested in someone like Sam Girard, Morgan Frost, or Casey Mittelstadt for example. If we wanted to get a Girard like player we would probably just extend the strictly better player in Hanifin. And someone like Frost or Mittelstadt aren't legitimate 1C's, we already have Backs and Kadri who can eat those top 6 minutes at center but we will need a true 1C in the post Lindholm era at some point, and trying to band-aid that is just not a viable option.

If they can trade Lindholm and bring back an equivalent center as Ufa they would 100 percent do that.

There are no UFA centers of Lindholm's caliber or higher hitting the market any time soon with the exception of Draisaitl who probably wouldn't sign in Calgary anyways. Best bet is to draft one or trade for a prospect with that potential.

 

[DJN21]

I hope this doesn't derail the thread at all by my asking and if so Mods do as you will but seeing Faksa thrown in this made me wonder how Stars fans view him in terms of a long term now vet type to simply be a throw in here? I'd liken it to the Sabres throwing Girgensons in as the cap balance in a trade which I just don't see ever happening but maybe my understanding of Faksa's role is incorrect based on limited watching of westcoast hockey living in NY myself....I'm genuinely just curious how Dallas fans view him...

 

[Johno]

I get where you're coming from, but I do not give a shit what handedness a partner for Miro is, he just needs to be quality. Our defenseman signings haven't been great as of late, so I just ain't trying to see Nill go and sign someone like Tyler Myers because he's a RHD, lol.

If he can lug around Colin Miller and have an elite season, definitely could do it with Myers too But that’s besides the point, didn’t say just bring in any RHD, needs to be top 4 quality. The point being that it’s all about the small details in Miro’s game which seem to work a lot better when he is on the left side. That’s why I’m of the mind that it should be a RHD, if talking about a partner for Miro.

 

[Double Dion]

Markstrom has full control over his location and I would rather keep him to mentor Wolf the same way Rinne mentored Saros and how Gibson is currently mentoring Dostal. Marky has already proven to be very good at that role in the way he openly supports, encourages, and offers advice to his backup when he is on the bench, while also not taking it to heart that he is not the only playing.

Kadri will be next to impossible to move due to his age and term. Edwards will never let us retain on a deal like that either.

I have no issue with short term additions for stability but our main focus should be adding players drafted in 2018 and forward. Like I think it's pretty likely Kylington signs and extension almost out of loyalty and to prove himself again but I would not be particularly interested in someone like Sam Girard, Morgan Frost, or Casey Mittelstadt for example. If we wanted to get a Girard like player we would probably just extend the strictly better player in Hanifin. And someone like Frost or Mittelstadt aren't legitimate 1C's, we already have Backs and Kadri who can eat those top 6 minutes at center but we will need a true 1C in the post Lindholm era at some point, and trying to band-aid that is just not a viable option.


There are no UFA centers of Lindholm's caliber or higher hitting the market any time soon with the exception of Draisaitl who probably wouldn't sign in Calgary anyways. Best bet is to draft one or trade for a prospect with that potential.

I don't know that we need to keep Markstrom as a mentor. Look at it from the players perspective. You came here because your BFF Lindholm was here and your favorite defenseman Tanev was here. The team also looked like a top half roster for sure and possible a contender. Now it's a bottom 30% roster and both of those guys are gone. Does he want to stay? I'm doubtful personally.

Kadri might be impossible to move, but if we ever have an opportunity it's with how he's playing this season and the cap going up significantly the next 2. It should definitely be explored, but I tend to agree with you it might not be moveable.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I don't know that we need to keep Markstrom as a mentor. Look at it from the players perspective. You came here because your BFF Lindholm was here and your favorite defenseman Tanev was here. The team also looked like a top half roster for sure and possible a contender. Now it's a bottom 30% roster and both of those guys are gone. Does he want to stay? I'm doubtful personally.

Kadri might be impossible to move, but if we ever have an opportunity it's with how he's playing this season and the cap going up significantly the next 2. It should definitely be explored, but I tend to agree with you it might not be moveable.

Markstrom just had a kid and bought a house in the area. Personally I think he prioritizes be a father more than anything now. I doubt he wants to uproot his family. But if he asks for a trade the. Conroy should definitely explore it. If not leave him be as he's probably happy

 

[Double Dion]

Markstrom just had a kid and bought a house in the area. Personally I think he prioritizes be a father more than anything now. I doubt he wants to uproot his family. But if he asks for a trade the. Conroy should definitely explore it. If not leave him be as he's probably happy

These guys have absurd amounts on money. Buying a house somewhere doesn't mean much. It didn't stop Iginla wanting to move on 8 months after he finished building his custom 8M mansion.

 

[catters078]

I hope this doesn't derail the thread at all by my asking and if so Mods do as you will but seeing Faksa thrown in this made me wonder how Stars fans view him in terms of a long term now vet type to simply be a throw in here? I'd liken it to the Sabres throwing Girgensons in as the cap balance in a trade which I just don't see ever happening but maybe my understanding of Faksa's role is incorrect based on limited watching of westcoast hockey living in NY myself....I'm genuinely just curious how Dallas fans view him...

Valuable player on a Cup contender.

1st rate penalty killer and his line is always a shut-down line. Very good defensively and good at faceoffs.

Main problem is He gives very little offense (though did score a shorty last night).

Reason he is viewed as a possible trade piece is he makes 3.5m and Dallas is hard against the cap. So if there is any option to bring in a top 4 defenseman which might be the piece which makes Dallas a cup contender or even favourite in West...faksa may have to be the moveable piece.

Dallas has Dellandrea as the 13th fwd at moment who can come in and support the 4th line and defensive game similair to faksa.

So while his play is beneficial in the playoffs, they can cover his lose on their 4th line and PK. Yet free up salary for an important defensive piece.

Still a good player though.