Proposal: Hanifin for Nylander Revisited

[member 157595]

How many 2nd line wingers forget to show up in the playoffs?

While Nylander's softness is concerning, I'm not willing to write him off in the playoffs just yet. He's still young. Also, there are plenty of 1st line players that have had bad playoff runs, just look at Giroux this year, or Max Pacioretty. Are you saying those two aren't 1st line players?

The track record for players starting with two seasons of ~60 or more points per year is generally good.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

How many 2nd line wingers forget to show up in the playoffs?

Lots, just like how lots of first line players don't perform every single playoff series.

He didn't have a good series by his standards but 4 points in 7 games is not bad. Many players (especially young ones) who had to play against the Bergeron line and Chara pairing would have trouble...

He has 8 points in 13 playoff games in his career. Wouldn't call that a no show lol.

 

[member 157595]

Lots, just like how lots of first line players don't perform every single playoff series.

He didn't have a good series by his standards but 4 points in 7 games is not bad. Many players (especially young ones) who had to play against the Bergeron line and Chara pairing would have trouble...

He has 8 points in 13 playoff games in his career. Wouldn't call that a no show lol.

Mostly agreed. I do have some concern about Nylander shying away from heavy contact on the corners; the Bruins could and did exploit that (as they should have). But I'm definitely not ready to move him for Hanifin.

I mean, I actually wanted Hanifin at #4 for the Leafs at the draft. Over Marner, Provorov or Werenski (as long as we didn't pick Strome or Crouse, I would have been okay though.) But I would have developed him much more slowly than Carolina has (I have nothing against Carolina; they're my favorite fanbase on this site) because I firmly believe he wasn't ready to be thrown into the fire the way he was. I haven't seen the progression I expected to see from him.

Carolina does have a defenseman I'd move Nylander for but it doesn't make sense for Carolina to do that trade, so we're kind of stuck.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Mostly agreed. I do have some concern about Nylander shying away from heavy contact on the corners; the Bruins could and did exploit that (as they should have). But I'm definitely not ready to move him for Hanifin.

I mean, I actually wanted Hanifin at #4 for the Leafs at the draft. Over Marner, Provorov or Werenski (as long as we didn't pick Strome or Crouse, I would have been okay though.) But I would have developed him much more slowly than Carolina has (I have nothing against Carolina; they're my favorite fanbase on this site) because I firmly believe he wasn't ready to be thrown into the fire the way he was. I haven't seen the progression I expected to see from him.

Carolina does have a defenseman I'd move Nylander for but it doesn't make sense for Carolina to do that trade, so we're kind of stuck.

Ya Nylander was soft this playoff series but he battled way more in the corners against Washington. When Boston are throwing head shots left right and center I could see why Willy didn't want to go into the corner against Chara.

Ya your probably right on Hanifin maybe needing some time dominating the AHL before being thrown right into the NHL. Ya I was between Strome as the Leafs didn't have a big bodied center and Hanifin myself. Very pleased with Marner though. Such a joy to watch.

Ya Huricanes are a better trsding partner for a team that needs offensive defenders which is not the Leafs. I could see Faulk getting some serious attention around the league. Faulk to Edmonton seems to make sense to me.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Nylander = Aho right now, Carolina doesn't need him. They need an actual center. Toronto needs good d though, more than they need a skilled winger. They already Marner for that role.

 

[member 157595]

Ya Nylander was soft this playoff series but he battled way more in the corners against Washington. When Boston are throwing head shots left right and center I could see why Willy didn't want to go into the corner against Chara.

Boston is a very well-run team. They have a great mix of talented youth like Pastrnak, McAvoy, DeBrusk and others but they complement those young guys with some of the best leaders the game has seen in recent years. In order to take steps forward we're going to have to beat them in a playoff series at some point, so we better start learning what it takes to win.

Ya your probably right on Hanifin maybe needing some time dominating the AHL before being thrown right into the NHL. Ya I was between Strome as the Leafs didn't have a big bodied center and Hanifin myself. Very pleased with Marner though. Such a joy to watch.

I thought Marner would struggle out of the gate, and nothing that transpired in his first training camp changed my mind. However, since then, he's completely sold me. His IQ and competitiveness are off the charts. He has the heart of a champion and I hope he never plays in another uniform.

Ya Huricanes are a better trsding partner for a team that needs offensive defenders which is not the Leafs. I could see Faulk getting some serious attention around the league. Faulk to Edmonton seems to make sense to me.

Completely agreed. Faulk is a perfect fit for Edmonton.

 

[Randy Randerson]

JVR>>Nylander.

Nylanders trash.

well that should be a nice post for anyone you get into an argument on here to reference as an instant disqualifier of your opinion on all things hockey, nicely done

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Boston is a very well-run team. They have a great mix of talented youth like Pastrnak, McAvoy, DeBrusk and others but they complement those young guys with some of the best leaders the game has seen in recent years. In order to take steps forward we're going to have to beat them in a playoff series at some point, so we better start learning what it takes to win.



I thought Marner would struggle out of the gate, and nothing that transpired in his first training camp changed my mind. However, since then, he's completely sold me. His IQ and competitiveness are off the charts. He has the heart of a champion and I hope he never plays in another uniform.



Completely agreed. Faulk is a perfect fit for Edmonton.

It will be interesting to see how Boston deal with Chara retiring in the next few years. Such a important player on and off the ice for them.

 

[rent free]

Sounds like a fair trade to me. Maybe Nylander is a a bit better right now but d men are worth more than wingers and D men take longer to blossom.

Actually think this helps the leafs more, as Carolina doesn't really need another winger, they have their own Nylander in Aho

Aho is actually a lwer to much surprise if many people, and Nylander could develop there as a centre. He was drafted as one.

 

[Murzu]

Leafs should do this.

Hurricanes should not do this.

 

[glucker]

Mostly agreed. I do have some concern about Nylander shying away from heavy contact on the corners; the Bruins could and did exploit that (as they should have). But I'm definitely not ready to move him for Hanifin.

I mean, I actually wanted Hanifin at #4 for the Leafs at the draft. Over Marner, Provorov or Werenski (as long as we didn't pick Strome or Crouse, I would have been okay though.) But I would have developed him much more slowly than Carolina has (I have nothing against Carolina; they're my favorite fanbase on this site) because I firmly believe he wasn't ready to be thrown into the fire the way he was. I haven't seen the progression I expected to see from him.

Carolina does have a defenseman I'd move Nylander for but it doesn't make sense for Carolina to do that trade, so we're kind of stuck.

For me, Hanafin was my choice if Arizona took Marner.

I think the Leafs has eyes for Werenski/Provorov, though.

 

[glucker]

Aho is actually a lwer to much surprise if many people, and Nylander could develop there as a centre. He was drafted as one.

Played center while Matthews was out, too. And splits FO duties with him when he’s healthy.

 

[Liferleafer]

For me, Hanafin was my choice if Arizona took Marner.

I think the Leafs has eyes for Werenski/Provorov, though.

You mean had eyes? Because if you mean they would target now, i don't see either being available. As to the OP, if the Leafs decide to move Nylander for D, it would have to be someone that is extremely good on the defensive side....we are loaded to the hilt with offense 1st guys....and Hanafin does not seem to fit that description.

 

[Liferleafer]

Leafs should do this.

Hurricanes should not do this.

I'm not condoning this deal, but a team in need of offense and a surplus of defense (Canes) shouldn't make a trade with a team in need of defense that has a surplus of offense (Toronto)?

 

[ITM]

I'm not condoning this deal, but a team in need of offense and a surplus of defense (Canes) shouldn't make a trade with a team in need of defense that has a surplus of offense (Toronto)?

Not when the team in need of defense isn't dealing offense from a position of strength. We're simply not there yet.

 

[Liferleafer]

Not when the team in need of defense isn't dealing offense from a position of strength. We're simply not there yet.

We need a big...really big defensive upgrade, how we get it....i don't know, but we've been bounced in the 1st round 2 years in a row....we're there.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Imagine if Tanev could actually play a full season, he'd be worth Nylander AND Marner +

No human being could ever imagine Tanev playing a full season, it's such an unrealistic prospect. Check their records, Nylander is Horvat's value.

 

[howkie]

No human being could ever imagine Tanev playing a full season, it's such an unrealistic prospect. Check their records, Nylander is Horvat's value.

Get both Tanevs, we can settle with a guy like Dermott for Brandon, and then Kapanen+1 for Chris

I promie, you will always have one Tanev in every game

(This is sarcasm if you dont notice...)

 

[ITM]

We need a big...really big defensive upgrade, how we get it....i don't know, but we've been bounced in the 1st round 2 years in a row....we're there.

By "there" I mean the position of strength from which to deal one of our primary assets. One of the other things we saw against Boston, was that although we can skate score in parts of the series, their depth, demonstrated that contenders require depth, everywhere.

You're right. We need...NEED...an upgrade on our defense. I think we can mitigate some of the deficiency through the UFA market and we might improve from within as Dermot gains experience and as Liljegren emerges. Key to solving our problem however is team defense, structure that everyone buys into all game long. Boston demonstrated TEAM defense. Until we have the right forward corps from which to determine who we need and who we can maximize into an upgrade on D, we need more time.

Nylander is a fantastic possession player. I would hate to move on him too soon until we've seen another year or two to determine what he is...And I think in order to determine what we have in the likes of Kapanen, Johnsson, Grundstrom, Korshkov, we need time and we need to see how the market can offset any possible moves we need to make.

 

[FerrisRox]

Up and coming Hanfin for Nylander. Both players need a change of scenery. Strsight up 1 for 1. Hanfin is unproven come playoff time. We know what Nylander does come playoff time. Would or wouldn't you and why?

Why does Hanafin need a change of scenery?

 

[FerrisRox]

No for the a millionth time. Hanafin won't help our defence issues.

You may not like the proposed trade, but suggesting Hanafin wouldn't help the Maple Leafs defense is absurd.

 

[Chan790]

Why does Hanafin need a change of scenery?

Doesn't. BD just thinks he's old and busted because Werenski and Provo developed faster and because we have a plethora of LHD.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

You may not like the proposed trade, but suggesting Hanafin wouldn't help the Maple Leafs defense is absurd.

In a sense, he’s right. 2017-2018 Noah Hanifin wouldn’t have made a difference against Boston. Hanifin was far more raw defensively than expected coming into the league and his improvement has been modest since his debut. No one really seems to notice, though, because of where he plays.

I will say, however, if he pans out, he’ll do it relatively soon. As I said the other day, Hanifin is entering post-draft year 4. Thinking about highly touted defenders that came into the league a bit raw, Jones started to hit his stride in post-draft year 4 and really broke out in 5. Hedman first hit 50 points in post-draft year 5 and was the 1D on a SCF finalist in 6. Dumba and Reilly broke out in post-draft year 6. If he does pan out, this may have been the only time to buy.

 

[FerrisRox]

In a sense, he’s right. 2017-2018 Noah Hanifin wouldn’t have made a difference against Boston. Hanifin was far more raw defensively than expected coming into the league and his improvement has been modest since his debut. No one really seems to notice, though, because of where he plays.

I will say, however, if he pans out, he’ll do it relatively soon. As I said the other day, Hanifin is entering post-draft year 4. Thinking about highly touted defenders that came into the league a bit raw, Jones started to hit his stride in post-draft year 4 and really broke out in 5. Hedman first hit 50 points in post-draft year 5 and was the 1D on a SCF finalist in 6. Dumba and Reilly broke out in post-draft year 6. If he does pan out, this may have been the only time to buy.

Uh, don't you think they would be looking for more long term results in acquiring a defensemen of his age?

Pointing out the difference the 2017-18 version would make is silly. Also, even despite all that, he would be an improvement even right now over half of the guys they currently ice who are defensively inept.

 

[branch]

I guess we should move Mattthews then. The Bruins are an anomaly. They play a shut down game and load up on goons, Chara included. We just have to wait for Chara, Mcquaid and Backes to retire. It alloys players like Mcavoy and Marchand to play like there 10 feet tall.

Ohhhhh okay