Hamilton II: The City, The League, and The Coliseum

[Evil Doctor]

Here is an update on the possible Katz/Copps deal and the fallout from the 'breakfast' meeting...

Report on meeting coming

Hamilton's integrity watchdog is poised to rule on whether four councillors broke the rules when they met with an NHL executive behind closed doors.

Earl Basse, the city's integrity commissioner, says he plans to release the results of his investigation into a meeting between members of the city's NHL subcommittee and Edmonton Oilers CEO Pat LaForge next week.

I'm not sure what the report could possibly say since no one at the 'breakfast' has even be interviewed. I doubt that the city council will even take it seriously if it comes out as a condemnation of the meeting.

And, despite my theory that the Katz proposal might have simply been put aside and forgotten...

LaForge visited Hamilton last summer to help negotiate a deal to bring an NHL team to Hamilton. His consortium, the Katz Group, wants to lock up NHL rights to Copps Coliseum for the next four years.

If Hamilton doesn't have an NHL team by that time, the Katz group has said it will give the city $1 million.

The city is still in the process of negotiating that deal.

Obviously it's still on. I suspect the on-going audit of HECFI is delaying the deal, and that we might see a tendering of proposals for privatization of all of HECFI once audit is done.

Summer by the time we know what is going on?

Click to read more...

 

[WingsFan95]

There's more than just the Yotes in trouble so I can't see why Hamilton is not going to stay on the radar.

Frankly the city needs an NHL team for entertainment.

 

[Bryan574]

Here is an update on the possible Katz/Copps deal and the fallout from the 'breakfast' meeting...

Report on meeting coming



I'm not sure what the report could possibly say since no one at the 'breakfast' has even be interviewed. I doubt that the city council will even take it seriously if it comes out as a condemnation of the meeting.

And, despite my theory that the Katz proposal might have simply been put aside and forgotten...



Obviously it's still on. I suspect the on-going audit of HECFI is delaying the deal, and that we might see a tendering of proposals for privatization of all of HECFI once audit is done.

Summer by the time we know what is going on?

It didn't come from Bill Watters so I ain't believin a word of it

 

[JMROWE]

Coyotes - Hamilton - Jim Balsille ?
Stars - Hamilton - Tom Gaglardi ?

We don't know what gose on behind close doors in the NHL. for all we know the NHL. , BOG. any prospective owner of a team in Hamilton maybe has reached a deal with MLSE. & to a certian extent the sabers pavving the way for NHL. team in Hamilton you never know .

 

[Free Edler]

Coyotes - Hamilton - Jim Balsille ?
Stars - Hamilton - Tom Gaglardi ?

We don't know what gose on behind close doors in the NHL. for all we know the NHL. , BOG. any prospective owner of a team in Hamilton maybe has reached a deal with MLSE. & to a certian extent the Sabres pavving the way for NHL. team in Hamilton you never know .

Stars aren't going anywhere. Their financial issues and debt had nothing to do with the market and everything to do with the previous owner overextending himself.

 

[Bryan574]

Here is an update on the possible Katz/Copps deal and the fallout from the 'breakfast' meeting...

Report on meeting coming



I'm not sure what the report could possibly say since no one at the 'breakfast' has even be interviewed. I doubt that the city council will even take it seriously if it comes out as a condemnation of the meeting.

And, despite my theory that the Katz proposal might have simply been put aside and forgotten...



Obviously it's still on. I suspect the on-going audit of HECFI is delaying the deal, and that we might see a tendering of proposals for privatization of all of HECFI once audit is done.

Summer by the time we know what is going on?

I also think the fact that the Katz group are still ironing out the details with the Edmonton arena , with the NHL making a big step with relocating the Thrashers to Winnipeg ,and the ongoing Coyotes mess with no end in sight... I can see why this has been delayed and not made public.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I'd still rank Quebec City and Kansas City above Hamilton in the likelihood of getting an NHL team, to be completely honest, especially as it's all but guaranteed that the Leafs and Sabres would be against a team being plunked down in what they view as their turf and would try their hardest to rally opposition to any move there.

Oh, and there's no way that the NHL would ever support pulling out of Dallas. The league would sooner contract than relocate a Dallas franchise. Say what you want about Atlanta and other southern markets, but Dallas/Texas is far too massive for the NHL to willingly let go of.

 

[dronald]

There's more than just the Yotes in trouble so I can't see why Hamilton is not going to stay on the radar.

Frankly the city needs an NHL team for entertainment.

Haha, I like you. I'm so damn bored in the winter these days when I'm not playing pond Hockey.

I will agree that QC is ahead of Hamilton in getting an NHL team, and is probably next in line, but after QC I think it's Hamilton. It may be another 10 years, but I really want one some day.

 

[5 Minute Major]

I'd still rank Quebec City and Kansas City above Hamilton in the likelihood of getting an NHL team, to be completely honest, especially as it's all but guaranteed that the Leafs and Sabres would be against a team being plunked down in what they view as their turf and would try their hardest to rally opposition to any move there.

Oh, and there's no way that the NHL would ever support pulling out of Dallas. The league would sooner contract than relocate a Dallas franchise. Say what you want about Atlanta and other southern markets, but Dallas/Texas is far too massive for the NHL to willingly let go of.

I completely agree with this.

Hamilton is a far fetched idea with the Sabres and Leafs in the equation, as well as an aging arena.

 

[Evil Doctor]

Coyotes - Hamilton - Jim Balsille ?
Stars - Hamilton - Tom Gaglardi ?

Balsillie is done with the the league, he ain't comin' back. He should be referred on this board as He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named for three simple reasons...

1) Detractors too often use him as a boogyman or as way to bolster a loosing argument. Example "Oh yeah? Well what Bald Silly? He's evil!"

2) Supports too often use him as wishful thinking.

3) Nobody spells his name right.

As for Gaglardi, I have no idea how serious his brief flirtation with buying the Thrashers and moving them to Hamilton was, or even if it's still a goal of his. If he does succeed in buying the Stars, I suspect, at least in the short term, he won't be moving them.

Honestly, there are too many other teams that might need to move long before Dallas will be considered...

We don't know what gose on behind close doors in the NHL. for all we know the NHL. , BOG. any prospective owner of a team in Hamilton maybe has reached a deal with MLSE. & to a certian extent the Sabres pavving the way for NHL. team in Hamilton you never know .

Possibly, but I always put that in my mental 'wishful thinking' tray. The only thing we know for sure is that Katz is still interested in managing HECFI and trying to bring a team to Hamilton.

 

[dronald]

Possibly, but I always put that in my mental 'wishful thinking' tray. The only thing we know for sure is that Katz is still interested in managing HECFI and trying to bring a team to Hamilton.

Ok, so Katz likes Hamilton. What does this mean for Edmonton... Anything?

 

[Bryan574]

Ok, so Katz likes Hamilton. What does this mean for Edmonton... Anything?

Nothing, he wants the rights to the arena that houses the SO team, not own the team outright.. Which is arguably more profitable and isn't against the NHL constitution.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Anyone remember that Burnside report from way back when he first reported that a "Winnipeg group" was trying to relocate the Thrashers to Winnipeg?

Well that same article also mentioned that Tom Gaglardi had also kicked tires on the prospect of bringing the Thrashers to Hamilton.

With Gaglardi now in the mix for the Stars, it seems like 1) Gaglardi has been approved by the BOG as an owner and 2) he's at least open to the idea of relocation of a team to Hamilton.

 

[JMROWE]

Balsillie is done with the the league, he ain't comin' back. He should be referred on this board as He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named for three simple reasons...

1) Detractors too often use him as a boogyman or as way to bolster a loosing argument. Example "Oh yeah? Well what Bald Silly? He's evil!"

2) Supports too often use him as wishful thinking.

3) Nobody spells his name right.

As for Gaglardi, I have no idea how serious his brief flirtation with buying the Thrashers and moving them to Hamilton was, or even if it's still a goal of his. If he does succeed in buying the Stars, I suspect, at least in the short term, he won't be moving them.

Honestly, there are too many other teams that might need to move long before Dallas will be considered...



Possibly, but I always put that in my mental 'wishful thinking' tray. The only thing we know for sure is that Katz is still interested in managing HECFI and trying to bring a team to Hamilton.

I don't think Balsille is done with NHL. or the NHL is done with him because I don't know if you herd but last year RIM. became one of the NHL's biggest sponsers & if Balsille was truly done with the NHL. he would apealed the judges rulling all the way to the highest court in the land & he also would of sued the NHL. & Bettman \ Daliy for slander & defamation of character & also would of pulled all sponsership RIM. had with the NHL. then & only then I would of said he was done but he didn't you know why because he wants another crack at bringing an NHL. team to Hamilton.

 

[JMROWE]

I'd still rank Quebec City and Kansas City above Hamilton in the likelihood of getting an NHL team, to be completely honest, especially as it's all but guaranteed that the Leafs and Sabres would be against a team being plunked down in what they view as their turf and would try their hardest to rally opposition to any move there.

Oh, and there's no way that the NHL would ever support pulling out of Dallas. The league would sooner contract than relocate a Dallas franchise. Say what you want about Atlanta and other southern markets, but Dallas/Texas is far too massive for the NHL to willingly let go of.

Why would anybody rank Quebec City ahead of Hamilton c'mon Quebec City is way off from getting a NHL. team they don't even have all the funding they need to bulid the arena also are in no position to make any kind of offer on any team right now & it is stupid thing to say will they can play at the arena they have which is over 60 years old & is falling apart . As for Kansas City will they have a brand new arena all set to go but ownership group has steped up to buy or move a team there . In my opinion Hamilton is the only city right now other than Winnipeg that is ready for the NHL. & I think the NHL. knows that & with the thrashers all but gone to Winnipeg the NHL. might not have much choice but to sell the team to someone that will move it to Hamilton wethier it is Balsille remains to be seen because there are lot of other ownership groups that want to bring an NHL. team to Hamilton other than Balsille & Gaglardi acording to the NHL. .

 

[dronald]

Why would anybody rank Quebec City ahead of Hamilton c'mon Quebec City is way off from getting a NHL. team they don't even have all the funding they need to bulid the arena also are in no position to make any kind of offer on any team right now & it is stupid thing to say will they can play at the arena they have which is over 60 years old & is falling apart . As for Kansas City will they have a brand new arena all set to go but ownership group has steped up to buy or move a team there . In my opinion Hamilton is the only city right now other than Winnipeg that is ready for the NHL. & I think the NHL. knows that & with the thrashers all but gone to Winnipeg the NHL. might not have much choice but to sell the team to someone that will move it to Hamilton wethier it is Balsille remains to be seen because there are lot of other ownership groups that want to bring an NHL. team to Hamilton other than Balsille & Gaglardi acording to the NHL. .

I do agree with you that Hamilton is the only city ready for an NHL team, but I don't think they'll be next. QC will find a way to get a team next for sure, and then KC is more or less hit or miss... They'll either get one or they wont.

 

[JMROWE]

I do agree with you that Hamilton is the only city ready for an NHL team, but I don't think they'll be next. QC will find a way to get a team next for sure, and then KC is more or less hit or miss... They'll either get one or they wont.

Yeah but this is a business & the current state the coyotes are in & Winnipeg is off the table & a lot of angry crediters wanting there money it would not surprise me if the NHL. has talked to Balsille about taking the coyotes off there hands because he is the only one right now willing to buy the coyotes & just not buy he will over pay for the team because he knows he would make all that money back in 1 year or maybe 2 at the most when he moves them to Hamilton . But it would not surprise me ethier if they go to Quebec City as bettman is notorious for backroom deals & if there is regarding bring a team to Quebec City but people in Quebec could say the same thing that ther is a back room deal going on to bring the coyotes to Hamilton .
As Kansas City will they got a brand new fancy arena all ready to go but with ownership comming forward because the clock is ticking to get an NHl. team in Kansas City because the NBA. has there eyes set on that market as well & if the NBA. gets there first the NHL. can kiiss that market goodbye reason I say that is if you ask people in Kansas City if they had a choice of which sport or league that they want to come to there city I would garrentee that 80% of them would pick the NBA. over the NHL. .

 

[dronald]

Yeah but this is a business & the current state the coyotes are in & Winnipeg is off the table & a lot of angry crediters wanting there money it would not surprise me if the NHL. has talked to Balsille about taking the coyotes off there hands because he is the only one right now willing to buy the coyotes & just not buy he will over pay for the team because he knows he would make all that money back in 1 year or maybe 2 at the most when he moves them to Hamilton . But it would not surprise me ethier if they go to Quebec City as bettman is notorious for backroom deals & if there is regarding bring a team to Quebec City but people in Quebec could say the same thing that ther is a back room deal going on to bring the coyotes to Hamilton .
As Kansas City will they got a brand new fancy arena all ready to go but with ownership comming forward because the clock is ticking to get an NHl. team in Kansas City because the NBA. has there eyes set on that market as well & if the NBA. gets there first the NHL. can kiiss that market goodbye reason I say that is if you ask people in Kansas City if they had a choice of which sport or league that they want to come to there city I would garrentee that 80% of them would pick the NBA. over the NHL. .

If Balsillie ever gets a team and moves it to Hamilton, it wont be the Coyotes after all that has happend. Even if JB gets in GB's good books, he's not going to sell the Yotes to Ballsy for less then the 212 million origionally offered and admit defeat. The NHL has too much pride to let Hamilton get a team that way.

 

[danishh]

Why would anybody rank Quebec City ahead of Hamilton c'mon Quebec City is way off from getting a NHL. team they don't even have all the funding they need to bulid the arena also are in no position to make any kind of offer on any team right now & it is stupid thing to say will they can play at the arena they have which is over 60 years old & is falling apart . As for Kansas City will they have a brand new arena all set to go but ownership group has steped up to buy or move a team there . In my opinion Hamilton is the only city right now other than Winnipeg that is ready for the NHL. & I think the NHL. knows that & with the thrashers all but gone to Winnipeg the NHL. might not have much choice but to sell the team to someone that will move it to Hamilton wethier it is Balsille remains to be seen because there are lot of other ownership groups that want to bring an NHL. team to Hamilton other than Balsille & Gaglardi acording to the NHL. .

my memory on this is a bit fuzzy, but i believe the NHL has come out publicly (either bettman or daly, maybe both) and said that copps in its current state is not NHL ready.

the generally accepted requirements are:
a) NHL arena
- KC has one. Houston has one. Quebec has plans for one. Hamilton has no plans for the replacements of copps or the building of a new one at this point.

b) NHL owner
- QC has one. KC doesnt have one (though JR from chicago has been rumored). Houston doesnt have one (no public interest since sens/oil problems, need les alexander to be involved as he owns the arena). Hamilton doesnt have one (unless you believe balsillie is really a consideration).

c) proven market
- Balsillie did a ticket drive in hamilton. Houston is in the top tier of AHL. Hamilton is in the bottom tier of AHL. KC has no hockey. QC has junior, which is a terrible comparison because of price levels.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

my memory on this is a bit fuzzy, but i believe the NHL has come out publicly (either bettman or daly, maybe both) and said that copps in its current state is not NHL ready.

Just curious. Do you know what they consider "NHL ready."

 

[Scouter]

I still think Hamilton will prove to be a major hurdle to overcome trying to get an NHL team there, the owners of Toronto, Detroit and Buffalo would all have to approve it, considering what happened before I don't think that will happen.

 

[danishh]

Just curious. Do you know what they consider "NHL ready."

no, but they have publicly stated in the past that MTS was acceptable, and it's only 15000 seats.

my guess is it has to do with age/facilities(players)/corporate boxes.

 

[Killion]

my memory on this is a bit fuzzy, but i believe the NHL has come out publicly (either bettman or daly, maybe both) and said that copps in its current state is not NHL ready.

Suggesting Copps' is not exactly NHL ready is correct; suggesting it cant be made NHL ready, & rather quickly at that, is completely & utterly false. Its a 1980's built but 1990's generation building that can easily be built out from within in order to accommodate expanded media, concessions & the like. Games could be played there immediately as renovations are ongoing without a blip.

 

[danishh]

i did qualify it.

I'm not sure how quickly it could be done. From what i understand it's not something that can be made up to standard in say, an offseason. A few consecutive offseasons of construction would probably be needed.

There is also the question of cost. JB's proposal called for a significant amount of money (again, fuzzy memory, but i think it was over $200M) to be spent.


Just like QC right now has no nhl arena, but has approved plans for one and is well on it's way to having one, having plans for the upgrades at copps would be a necessity before the NHL looks there seriously. The NHL doesnt want cities/owners to say: give us a franchise, then we'll get the arena ready. They want you to build the arena and then they'll consider you for a franchise.

That's what winnipeg did, and that's why they may be about to get a team. That's what QC is in the process of doing, and that's why there is suddenly a lot of conversation about an NHL return there. Hamilton needs to make their move on the arena first, then the NHL and the media will start respecting it as a potential market.

 

[Killion]

i did qualify it..

Ya, no worries danishh, you did indeed qualify it, its been the NHL's stock answer for about a decade whenever Hamiltons' name comes up. If expansion teams (San Jose for example) are awarded franchises prior to their buildings completions & forced to play elsewhere, Its' pretty hard to buy into the leagues position over Copps' when the shell & infrastructure are there, a $150-$250M reno required, with the team actually able to play in the place from pre-season onward. Winnipeg as we well remember was told "no way, that buildings too small for the NHL"; Quebec could also house a team at the Colisee' if push came to shove in awaiting completion of their new building if awarded a franchise via relo in advance. This whole "build it & we MIGHT come" nonsense has gotta stop. Enjoin the 2 if you must; maybe its a city with an NBA franchise wanting to add an NHL team or whatever. Hamilton did build, there have been serious expressions of interest given to the league since 1980 & here we are 26yrs later, still waiting....... And so ya, the NHL might be right in a rather sardonic fashion. Hamilton doesnt have a suitable arena because the house they originally built for the NHL is now 30, 40, 50 years old. But by all means, lets do it again shall we?.