Value of: Hamilton for a winger

[The Moose is Loose]

I agree to an extent but sometimes there are differences. Boston wouldn’t trade with chia and he went to the flames

I mean there was that example, and frankly it was very petty. And I don't think that kind of animosity exists between the Oilers, Flames, and Blackhawks GMs.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

Its just the Oilers don't feel like gifting a player like Wahlstrom to the Flames, there is an incredibly high price on that side too, and the kinda cancel out. Also this fan hatred for other teams doesn't exist among professionals. Your "it goes incredibly high" is just immaturity that wouldn't really exist.

I think what I proposed was fair, and frankly my main team isn't the Oilers, so I really don't care if CaptainCrunch67 (aka obviously the GM, President, and Owner of the flames) vetos the trade.

You're kind of playing the victim here. I pointed out that your proposal doesn't fill a need for the Flames who are not looking at going into another rebuild. So picks and prospects don't mean anything right now.

Your proposal meets the needs of the other two teams, while creating a massive hole for the Flames while bringing in prospects that may or more likely may not be ready for a year or two.

And yes, if there is a trade to a pacific division team that's immediately going to improve that team then the price is going to be high enough to hurt.

 

[Hoganer13]

Hamilton's last year in Boston has been very similar to his first 3 years in Calgary... around 0.5-0.6 PPG, around 19-21 minutes per game, gets PP points but doesn't rely on them to get points and is a very solid overall player. My only problem is that while he has maintained that he is a really good defence man, he hasn't stepped into really great level. You guys got him for the 15th, 45th and 52nd pick in 2015. While I understand Boston's hands were tied because he wanted to be moved, he still only got a mid first and 2 second round picks. To think that he has improved so exponentially that he would demand so much more in a trade makes no sense to me. I think a high first would be a reasonable offer, but some of you seem a bit delusional if you think he would pull in 2-3 top notch prospects/picks. Personally he just doesn't defend well enough to merit the trade proposals that are flying around in this forum.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

You're kind of playing the victim here. I pointed out that your proposal doesn't fill a need for the Flames who are not looking at going into another rebuild. So picks and prospects don't mean anything right now.

Your proposal meets the needs of the other two teams, while creating a massive hole for the Flames while bringing in prospects that may or more likely may not be ready for a year or two.

And yes, if there is a trade to a pacific division team that's immediately going to improve that team then the price is going to be high enough to hurt.

I just saying the majority of trades aren't a 1 for 1 swap, a precedent is usually a big name player going for a main piece (Wahlstrom here) with a 1st round pick and a prospect attached on top.

And while yes it creates a hole, I'd argue its one that can overcome by prospects, as well as the fact they have Brodie and Hamonic on the right side top4. Also getting a RHS sniper fills an even bigger hole for the flames imo.

 

[blankall]

I just saying the majority of trades aren't a 1 for 1 swap, a precedent is usually a big name player going for a main piece (Wahlstrom here) with a 1st round pick and a prospect attached on top.

And while yes it creates a hole, I'd argue its one that can overcome by prospects, as well as the fact they have Brodie and Hamonic on the right side top4. Also getting a RHS sniper fills an even bigger hole for the flames imo.

Naw...teams that want to compete typically trade high end players for other high end players. There are pieces added sometime, but usually at least one big piece coming back.

Subban/Weber
Duchene/Turris
Hall/Larsson


The kind of trades you're talking about typically involve rebuilding teams and deadline deals. It's very rare, that the value of a high end player gets broken up when two teams who are looking to compete are involved. It does occasionally happen when a team has cap issues or when a team thinks they can money ball their way into a cup with the last few pieces, but typically those deals are seen as really bad in hindsight. Neither of those situations apply to Calgary right now. They're a team that wants to compete, but nowhere near the point where a few last minor pieces will secure a cup.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Naw...teams that want to compete typically trade high end players for other high end players. There are pieces added sometime, but usually at least one big piece coming back.

Subban/Weber
Duchene/Turris
Hall/Larsson


The kind of trades you're talking about typically involve rebuilding teams and deadline deals. It's very rare, that the value of a high end player gets broken up when two teams who are looking to compete are involved. It does occasionally happen when a team has cap issues or when a team thinks they can money ball their way into a cup with the last few pieces, but typically those deals are seen as really bad in hindsight. Neither of those situations apply to Calgary right now. They're a team that wants to compete, but nowhere near the point where a few last minor pieces will secure a cup.

Duchene/Turris was far from a clean swap, with A TON of pieces being added from all sides. And Hall/Larsson, Subban/Weber, and Jones/Johansen are pretty rare, and far from the norm. I just don't think that kind of trade is to be expected. If Hamilton is dealt, my guess is its for a top 6 winger (or a potential 1st line winger who is unproven) with a 1st and a prospect added on.

 

[blankall]

Duchene/Turris was far from a clean swap, with A TON of pieces being added from all sides. And Hall/Larsson, Subban/Weber, and Jones/Johansen are pretty rare, and far from the norm. I just don't think that kind of trade is to be expected. If Hamilton is dealt, my guess is its for a top 6 winger (or a potential 1st line winger who is unproven) with a 1st and a prospect added on.

Nope...The Flames have no need for late 1sts in that scenario. The 1/1 deals are rare, because it's rare that a player like Hamilton gets traded. Another example would be:

Jones/Johanssen

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Nope...The Flames have no need for late 1sts in that scenario. The 1/1 deals are rare, because it's rare that a player like Hamilton gets traded. Another example would be:

Jones/Johanssen

Another example? Did you even read my post? I cited Jones/Johansen.

And not really top 4-top 2 d-men get dealt more frequently than you'd think. Its defensemen like Subban/Weber thats rare, and they were swapped for each other

 

[D3vilsH0ck3y]

Wish he played the left side then I would be open to Something around Palmieri? If not maybe something around Zacha and our first

 

[blankall]

Another example? Did you even read my post? I cited Jones/Johansen.

And not really top 4-top 2 d-men get dealt more frequently than you'd think. Its defensemen like Subban/Weber thats rare, and they were swapped for each other

The deal needs to make the Flames a better team. Unless one top line winger of high value is coming back, that's not happening.

To add to this, the Flames are looking to compete shortly, and do not need to move Hamilton. Hamilton is getting better and better defensively every game, and his offence is great. So giving us a 50 point winger (Hamilton puts up that many points as a defenceman) plus a mid-late 1st is totally useless and makes the Flames a much worse team. So unless a 70+ point winger is coming back, there's zero incentive for the Flames to move Hamilton.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Flames have an ok offense right now but i think there missing one good winger to even it out. You need to give to get and with the acquisition of Hamonic in the offseason we can maybe afford to trade Hamilton (it will hurt but you need to give to get). I cant think of many off the top of my head so fans of other teams shoot away. One i think both teams would do is Nylander for Hamilton.
ps. this is just for fun and to see value i know its not smart to trade Hamilton

I think the Nylander for Hamilton trade is probably fair value but as a Leafs fan, I'd explore other options for a better fit before I'd do that.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Hamilton is worth more than Nylander. But keep on dreaming leaf fans.

All he said was that Nylander isn't available, which is most likely true.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Hamilton wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd probably trade Nylander for him if other, more defensive options aren't available. I certainly wouldn't add Liljegrin or a first to make it happen though.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Something around Hoffman and Pittsburgh's 1st/Ceci, +

Smith could be included, too, if desired, maybe as a swap for Brouwer.

Stone simply would not be available, unless the Sens trade Karlsson for a top forward.