Half-Season Awards: James Norris

[Riseonfire]

I don't think Reilly should be in this conversation similar to how John Carlson didn't belong last year.

They are good to great players who have their status elevated by a near perfect 'situation' (teammates and usage).

 

[bobholly39]

Hard to see Giordano losing it even if he slows down a bit. Not having won it before will help too.

Really? To me he's barely even the favorite. But even if he is I think it's absolutely still a wide open race.

Not having won can help - but voters also love come from behind victories and Karlsson has a great story there.

Mostly - there's a lot of hockey left.

 

[Tkachuky]

Really? To me he's barely even the favorite. But even if he is I think it's absolutely still a wide open race.

Not having won can help - but voters also love come from behind victories and Karlsson has a great story there.

Mostly - there's a lot of hockey left.

Why is he not a favorite? Curious?

 

[bobholly39]

Why is he not a favorite? Curious?

It's less about not being the favorite than the "barely" part. The gap is small - and with top guys like Karlsson roaring back, I just think there's a lot of hockey left to play and some players with strong name recognition. So to me it's very easy to see Gio losing the Norris, as there's a few strong contenders and lots of potential for movement.

I did vote Morgan Rielly at time of poll creation. To me the vote was more about who would win if a vote was held today than who I personally thought was most deserving. I think Morgan will benefit from a lot of hype, moreso than Gio.

Also - I'm saying Gio may not be "the" favorite - I didn't say he's not "a" favorite. He's obviously one of a few leading candidates though.

 

[BostonBruins11]

So much focus on offense for a DEFENSEmen award....

At least Giordano plays well in his own zone. So Him

 

[CraigsList]

How is it not Gio?

Of all the defenseman considered he is the best in his own zone. Top that off with a PPG pace (which will probably regress to .8/.85), but he is by far the better defenseman this year. He’s really been our backbone of the Flames.

 

[Regal]

So much focus on offense for a DEFENSEmen award....

At least Giordano plays well in his own zone. So Him

Offense is a part of a defenseman's job

 

[BostonBruins11]

Offense is a part of a defenseman's job

Playing proper "defense" is the #1 priority, offense should always be secondary

 

[Regal]

Playing proper "defense" is the #1 priority, offense should always be secondary

I disagree. Whatever benefits the team in the long run should be the priority. The best defensemen know when to gamble, but in general safe play alone isn't going to give you the most value. The best defensemen either do both at a high level, or score at such a high level to overcome any defensive shortcomings.

 

[Rubi]

I disagree. Whatever benefits the team in the long run should be the priority. The best defensemen know when to gamble, but in general safe play isn't going to give you the most value.

LOL... disagreeing with "a DEFENSEMAN's first priority should be DEFENSE".
Good one.

 

[Regal]

LOL... disagreeing that a DEFENSEMAN's first priority shouldn't be DEFENSE.
Good one.

You're right, positional names are important. That's why McDavid is the best player in the league. Because he's so good at forwarding.

 

[Rubi]

You're right, positional names are important. That's why McDavid is the best player in the league. Because he's so good at forwarding.

 

[Regal]

Back at ya buddy. The name was created when forward passes weren't allowed, and there was a rover. The position has changed dramatically since then and defensemen need to be part of the offense to have full value. If your argument for why defensemen should be valued for their defense first is based on a name instead of how the game is actually played, well, it's not really an argument

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

Back at ya buddy. The name was created when forward passes weren't allowed, and there was a rover. The position has changed dramatically since then and defensemen need to be part of the offense to have full value. If your argument for why defensemen should be valued for their defense first is based on a name instead of how the game is actually played, well, it's not really an argument

What about if a Dman is top 3 in D scoring and is probably playing the best D in the league currently at the same time?

 

[La Masse]

Probably Giordano right now

 

[3074326]

Playing proper "defense" is the #1 priority, offense should always be secondary

Gio does both, that's why he deserves it.

But yeah, it does favor the offensive dmen. But as long as they're playing good D, that's a good way to rank them.

 

[Regal]

What about if a Dman is top 3 in D scoring and is probably playing the best D in the league currently at the same time?

I voted for Gio here, I'm not arguing against him.

My post wasn't about specific players, it was about how we evaluate them in general. The original poster I quoted was criticizing the discussion for focusing on points instead of defense, because they believe defense should be the priority for a defenseman, but I think defensemen should be valued on their contribution to goal differential regardless of how they go about it. Lots of goals are scored for both teams when Brent Burns is on the ice for example, but the outcome is still in his team's favour. This is more valuable than a stay at home defenseman who limits goals against, but whose team rarely scores when he's on because he can't move the puck.

With Gio, his offense is up near the leaders so it shouldn't matter at this point. It would be a more interesting question if he had, say 25-30 points.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

I voted for Gio here, I'm not arguing against him.

My post wasn't about specific players, it was about how we evaluate them in general. The original poster I quoted was criticizing the discussion for focusing on points instead of defense, because they believe defense should be the priority for a defenseman, but I think defensemen should be valued on their contribution to goal differential regardless of how they go about it. Lots of goals are scored for both teams when Brent Burns is on the ice for example, but the outcome is still in his team's favour. This is more valuable than a stay at home defenseman who limits goals against, but whose team rarely scores when he's on because he can't move the puck.

With Gio, his offense is up near the leaders so it shouldn't matter at this point. It would be a more interesting question if he had, say 25-30 points.

I totally agree with this and in fact some of the best defense is a good offense :p .. The game is to fast and you need quick transition, which so happens to be who the best defenders are now (Burns, Karlson and even Gio)