Half-Season Awards: James Norris

[Pyrophorus]

It's a study on Toronto homer-ism. I'm trying to determine if Toronto fans can still objectively rank players outside of their team.

I meant, what is the "Best defenseman" to you, and who do you choose?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Rielly is 2nd in voting win a notable edge on 3rd, despite the fact that he has never been a Norris caliber defenseman before, his 5V5 defensive metrics are poor, and he is 2nd in scoring for defensemen - as far from 3rd as he is from 1st.

Rielly still leads all defensemen in total goals with 13 goals and is only 4 points behind Burns.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Rielly still leads all defensemen in total goals with 13 goals and is only 4 points behind Burns.

Goals didn’t really help Brent Burns when he had 11 more than Karlsson but 7 fewer points in 2015-2016. On top of that, Rielly’s shooting percentage is 230% of his career average; Burns’ shooting percentage is 72.86% of his career average. Let’s see where those goals (and the points) are by season’s end.

 

[Golden_Jet]

but it did help him the year Karlsson had 82 points and Burns had a lot of goals.

 

[DFF]

Game over for Rielly. There is no more justification for him. Burns is now the leading scorer...Thanks god!!!!

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Game over for Rielly. There is no more justification for him. Burns is now the leading scorer...Thanks god!!!!

Must suck when the leafs and their players are so good and your team is a dumpster fire, they really are the only thing related to hockey you seem to care about anymore.

 

[Connor McConnor]

I meant, what is the "Best defenseman" to you, and who do you choose?

My top 5 would probably be
Karlsson
Hedman
Jones
Burns
Subban

However, guys like Gio, Josi, Doughty, Carlson and Reilly would be in the next group.

 

[Rubi]

Giordano picks up 3 assists and is +1 tonight with 26:11 ice time.
Currently has 43 pts and a +/- of +31 in 43 GP.

 

[Rubi]

My top 5 would probably be
Karlsson
Hedman
Jones
Burns
Subban

However, guys like Gio, Josi, Doughty, Carlson and Reilly would be in the next group.

... when 1 facepalm just isn't enough.

 

[Connor McConnor]

... when 1 facepalm just isn't enough.

If you actually had context you might understand a bit better. I've already said I have Gio as the front runner for the Norris. There is a big difference between the Norris and who I think is the best defenceman. Gio is having a great year. An amazing year. He's also having the best year of his career at age 35. That doesn't catapult him above guys who have done this consistently and have not really had major drop offs this year. Guys like EK, Hedman and Jones all started off slowly for reasons such as injury or new team but have started to heat up and return to their norms.

 

[DRW204]

Gio
Reilly
Burns

 

[Rubi]

If you actually had context you might understand a bit better. I've already said I have Gio as the front runner for the Norris. There is a big difference between the Norris and who I think is the best defenceman. Gio is having a great year. An amazing year. He's also having the best year of his career at age 35. That doesn't catapult him above guys who have done this consistently and have not really had major drop offs this year. Guys like EK, Hedman and Jones all started off slowly for reasons such as injury or new team but have started to heat up and return to their norms.

Fair enough.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Defensemen with as few minutes as Rielly compared to the others generally don’t win the Norris unless they have a big lead in points. While people talk like the Norris is essentially an offensive award this is not entirely true. Minutes count. As does PK time. Generally the winner plays huge minutes in all situations including the PK.
At this point I doubt that Rielly is in the top three.
Probably Gio, EK, and Burns, imo.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Defensemen with as few minutes as Rielly compared to the others generally don’t win the Norris unless they have a big lead in points. While people talk like the Norris is essentially an offensive award this is not entirely true. Minutes count. As does PK time. Generally the winner plays huge minutes in all situations including the PK.
At this point I doubt that Rielly is in the top three.
Probably Gio, EK, and Burns, imo.

When Erik Karlsson won the Norris 2x I remember others saying him leading all defensemen in points mattered the most, even though he wasn't as good defensively or using his minutes as another reason why he deserved it.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

When Erik Karlsson won the Norris 2x I remember others saying him leading all defensemen in points mattered the most, even though he wasn't as good defensively or using his minutes as another reason why he deserved it.

Terrible example. EK won because he had way more points and is much better defensively than the casual fan realizes. He also played huge minutes in all situations.
That just really backs up my original post.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Terrible example. EK won because he had way more points and is much better defensively than the casual fan realizes. He also played huge minutes in all situations.
That just really backs up my original post.

Either he won because he had the most points among defensemen which you said is one criteria the voters used and now he also won because he played a lot of minutes. You can not have it both ways.

 

[triggrman]

Terrible example. EK won because he had way more points and is much better defensively than the casual fan realizes. He also played huge minutes in all situations.
That just really backs up my original post.

He's never played huge minutes in all situations.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Either he won because he had the most points among defensemen which you said is one criteria the voters used and now he also won because he played a lot of minutes. You can not have it both ways.

Learn to read the post you’re responding to. I said if you don’t have big minutes you need to have a big point lead to win. EK had both a big point lead and played almost 30 minutes a night. It’s a terrible example.
Rielly has low minutes relative to the others who are ahead or close to him in points. He needs to win the point race by a lot to even have a shot. The myth that the Norris is just a points race is just that. A myth. You still need big minutes or a big lead in points.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Learn to read the post you’re responding to. I said if you don’t have big minutes you need to have a big point lead to win. EK had both a big point lead and played almost 30 minutes a night. It’s a terrible example.
Rielly has low minutes relative to the others who are ahead or close to him in points. He needs to win the point race by a lot to even have a shot. The myth that the Norris is just a points race is just that. A myth. You still need big minutes or a big lead in points.

Let's say at the end of the season Rielly ends up leading all defensemen by 5 points and still plays around the same minutes. Would that be enough in your opinion to make him the favorite? Before it was leading defensemen in points to make them the favorite and now you changed it to leading the points race by a lot. So you keep moving the posts at the requirements because you have a bias against Rielly because he plays in Toronto.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Let's say at the end of the season Rielly ends up leading all defensemen by 5 points and still plays around the same minutes. Would that be enough in your opinion to make him the favorite? Before it was leading defensemen in points to make them the favorite and now you changed it to leading the points race by a lot. So you keep moving the posts at the requirements because you have a bias against Rielly because he plays in Toronto.

Swing and a miss! Again.
The only one moving goal posts is yourself.
Read my post first then respond.

 

[Jonesey]

Ekholm should be top 5. He's carried our defense all season and it seems his offensive game is finally coming into it's own.

 

[DFF]

Must suck when the leafs and their players are so good and your team is a dumpster fire, they really are the only thing related to hockey you seem to care about anymore.

Sorry bud, my dumpster fire team is ahead of the Leafs.

 

[Rubi]

Is this Mark Giordano's year to win the Norris Trophy? - TheHockeyNews

 

[koyvoo]

I think this is Gio’s year. He’s playing like a tank but a couple other strong candidates too. Good race.

 

[Phil McKraken]

Hard to see Giordano losing it even if he slows down a bit. Not having won it before will help too.