Proposal: Hagelin to the Leafs

[Eb]

Kapanen makes Hagelin irrelevant. Johnnson too.

Redundant is a better word. Don’t @ me

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Redundant is a better word. Don’t @ me

Come @ me bro

 

[Boutette]

Kapanen makes Hagelin irrelevant. Johnnson too.

No. Because speedy players play best with speedy players. You'd think after watching Kapanen repeatedly zipping a zone ahead of his broken down geezers of linemates would have demonstrated that to people that sticking super fast with super slow doesn't really work all that well.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

No. Because speedy players play best with speedy players. You'd think after watching Kapanen repeatedly zipping a zone ahead of his broken down geezers of linemates would have demonstrated that to people that sticking super fast with super slow doesn't really work all that well.

I'm not going to put much into this but you are missing the point. We already have our centers set and a plethora of speedy wingers. Hagelin is useless to us at his caphit. You don't just go after a player because he's slightly faster than a better overall option.

And really this isnt Xbox. You don't need all 3 players on a line to be lightning fast to gel... I don't really get why you came at me like this.

 

[diceman934]

This...

I doubt we see Dubas waste the space we will have before at least the new year or the deadline.

They have shown patience all along, why change that now? Save that space for a possible impact player rather then wasting 4 million on a 4th liner for the sake of a pick. That's just poor cap management.

I'm hoping Kyle trys his hand at moving Hortons contract to the Yotes personally. It could be worth it to open up that money after all. They seem to be in a mood to take on contracts

Yotes do not want that contract as it is uninsured and we are paying his salary every year. It does not save them money at all. We are stuck with this contract unless we attach a high draft pick to it and hope a team like the Rangers take it.

 

[diceman934]

He is good on the PK and defensively, and has speed to burn.

My idea would mostly be to use him to expose other teams when the Leafs 4th line is on the ice.
If you have to deal with Matthews, Tavares and Kadris lines and your reprieve is dealing with Hagelin and Kappanens speed? WOOF!

Eniss does this already as he can still wheel.

 

[Boutette]

I'm not going to put much into this but you are missing the point. We already have our centers set and a plethora of speedy wingers. Hagelin is useless to us at his caphit. You don't just go after a player because he's slightly faster than a better overall option.

And really this isnt Xbox. You don't need all 3 players on a line to be lightning fast to gel... I don't really get why you came at me like this.

Disagreeing with you is not "coming at you". But you are right, you don't need 3 players on a line that are speedy. But you do need at least 2 if you want to get the most out of your speed. Also, Hagelin, like Hyman and Kapanen is a physical player, which this team is a little short of right now.

 

[Peasy]

We don't have the cap room because of bonuses for this year and next year, plus Hortons cap hit.

 

[aingefan]

Let Josh play.

I like the idea in general - leveraging cap space and resources (there’s lots of money around) for assets, but I don’t think adding a forward is all too helpful.

 

[thewave]

I like Hagelin but not for his cap hit or the idea of a second round pick going out the door for another rental.

In order to go big game hunting like Tampa has with McDonagh and Miller, we need to have the habit of making our 2nd round picks every year. How much better of a position would Toronto be in if we had the Plekanec and Boyle 2nd rounders right now? That's basically Alexander Volkov and Jacob Olofsson.

It's easy to drum up that conclusion but, perhaps it was that little bit of confidence in spending that made JT sign here. Perhaps he looks at it as though we are for real July 1st. Signs. Would you trade 2x2nds for JT?

I always say trade expiring assets and hoarde picks but, maybe just maybe what they did landed us the big fish and at that point I just stop and appreciate the wealth we have accumulated asset wise.

 

[IBeL34f]

Don't understand why people are talking about not needing Hagelin as if he's the important part of this trade scenario for the Leafs, when the obvious get is the 2nd-round pick. The only possible downsides I see with a move like this would be the inability to load up at the trade deadline (something I'm not 100% sure we'd be looking to do anyway) or not having the room to keep Horton off the LTIR (which I believe should not be considered an option this season).

If we did happen to bridge Nylander for about $4.5M for 2-3 years, I think that would leave us with the room required to make a trade like this (if Dubas wanted to) without screwing ourselves.
(There are obviously other benefits as well to signing Nylander to a bridge contract - Please don't think I would bridge him specifically to make a trade like this work.)

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Of all the positions the Leafs don't need help. Leafs are still trying to develop players not just adding more aging 3rd/4th liners at 4m a year.
Marleau, Hyman, Johnson, Grundstrom, Leivo maybe even Kapanen at LW, What is the purpose of the Hagelin on the team?
And yes there is cap issue, if the Leafs want to no Performance Bonus carryover into next season.

 

[TML1967]

I don't disagree we could use a d man over a forward, but no team near the cap ceiling has a d on an expiring deal who is with it.

Maybe Detroit and Kronwal? They have less than 2.5 million in cap and need to sign Larkin (around 5-6 mil would be my guess)

Filip Hronek would be an amazing get, but we would need to add a.decent piece going back.
Maybe Gustav Lindstom? Or Saarijarvi? They also have an extra 2nd round pick.

Maybe Kronwal can handle bottom pair?
Idk just spitballing

 

[egd27]

This is dumb, the last thing we need is a cap dump. You are a few years behind us, please catch up. We just signed a top player and are cup favorites in Vegas. If we waste our cap space like this we will look stupid at the trade deadline when our competition adds good rentals we can no longer afford because an extra second round pick was just so important to have. Like I said, dumb.

Good message, but poorly delivered.

 

[deletethis]

The Leafs have the room to make a creative move like this. The question is whether Hagelin is the right player. If the Leafs lacked speed then this move might have made sense but this isn't an area of deficiency. A 2nd rounder is nice but you don't add a salary to the lineup for the 2018-19 Leafs solely for a draft pick, that's a move for Montreal or Buffalo to make. Another reason to not make this deal is that it's Pittsburgh: as soon as the Leafs give Pittsburgh wiggle room Pittsburgh may sign/acquire a player Leafs would preferably like to add themselves.

I don't have a specific player in mind but I'd like to add bottom of the lineup physical forward instead. Or a veteran defenseman capable of some top 4 minutes. Either with a year remaining on their contract.

 

[Stephen]

It's easy to drum up that conclusion but, perhaps it was that little bit of confidence in spending that made JT sign here. Perhaps he looks at it as though we are for real July 1st. Signs. Would you trade 2x2nds for JT?

I always say trade expiring assets and hoarde picks but, maybe just maybe what they did landed us the big fish and at that point I just stop and appreciate the wealth we have accumulated asset wise.

The idea that Tavares may have been persuaded to sign here because we spent liberally on Boyle and Plekanec is insane.

 

[Crease Master]

Ok. Please tell me who you want to sign right now who's left on the market.

Only people I'd want are Rick Nash (may be retired), Hamhuis (is looking for a multi year deal and a good salary), Vermette (would love a faveoff specialist 4c who can pk. Limited minutes would be perfect)

Maybe Enstrom/ Sbisa / Hansen/ Hartnell/ Winnik if they are super cheap on a 1 year deal.

I wouldn't suggest taking a multi year cap killer. I also think Hagelin with Kappanen would be a terror speed wise and on the PK to teams.

I also don't think a 2nd round pick is something to sneaze at. Would help recover the cost of getting Plekanec from last year. Even if it's leivo+4th for Hagelin+2nd I'd be happy. Hell at the TDL retain 50% and flip him for another pick to a team with injuries

Like I said, this is dumb. Sure a 2nd round pick is nothing to sneeze at, but neither is having 4 million dollars of cap space when the trade deadline arrives. Only one of those things will help us win a cup this year. We aren't some rebuilding team looking to horde assets because the cupboards are bare, we're a cup contender looking to add players for a cup run. We have draft picks through the wazoo already and the prospect pool is so deep there isn't a need to add what will be a very late 2nd round pick at the expense of our cap. Honestly, how dumb would you feel if a top player became available at the trade deadline that could help the Leafs win a cup, but we can't trade for him because we have a 4 million dollar 4th liner? How happy are you going to be to have that late 2nd round pick if a top rental player you want goes to Boston or Tampa because we couldn't fit him under the cap? Use your head man, we have nothing but cheap, fast and skilled wingers on entry level deals just killing each other for a chance at that 4th line spot, but you want to trade for an old expensive one? Shoot yourself in the foot much? Pittsburgh's second round pick simply isn't worth crapping all of our cap flexibility for the season down the drain before the season even starts. Every year good players become available at the deadline that you wouldn't expect to be available, it would be nice to be able to trade for one. You're stuck in rebuild mode buddy, we've moved past that and into win mode in case you hadn't noticed. Teams that want to win don't add cap dumps, teams that expect to lose add cap dumps. Go tell your awesome idea to a Montreal fan or something, I'm sure they'll love it.

 

[TML1967]

Like I said, this is dumb. Sure a 2nd round pick is nothing to sneeze at, but neither is having 4 million dollars of cap space when the trade deadline arrives. Only one of those things will help us win a cup this year. We aren't some rebuilding team looking to horde assets because the cupboards are bare, we're a cup contender looking to add players for a cup run. We have draft picks through the wazoo already and the prospect pool is so deep there isn't a need to add what will be a very late 2nd round pick at the expense of our cap. Honestly, how dumb would you feel if a top player became available at the trade deadline that could help the Leafs win a cup, but we can't trade for him because we have a 4 million dollar 4th liner? How happy are you going to be to have that late 2nd round pick if a top rental player you want goes to Boston or Tampa because we couldn't fit him under the cap? Use your head man, we have nothing but cheap, fast and skilled wingers on entry level deals just killing each other for a chance at that 4th line spot, but you want to trade for an old expensive one? Shoot yourself in the foot much? Pittsburgh's second round pick simply isn't worth crapping all of our cap flexibility for the season down the drain before the season even starts. Every year good players become available at the deadline that you wouldn't expect to be available, it would be nice to be able to trade for one. You're stuck in rebuild mode buddy, we've moved past that and into win mode in case you hadn't noticed. Teams that want to win don't add cap dumps, teams that expect to lose add cap dumps. Go tell your awesome idea to a Montreal fan or something, I'm sure they'll love it.

I'd respectfully disagree.

Johnsson and Kapanen are good prospects, but neither has shown they are actually better than Hagelin yet.
He is a pretty solid PK guy who can flat out fly.
There is a chance we can add at the TDL to get something, but I'd rather take the asset now and use it for something going into the season.

I.e. Leivo +4th for Hagelin +2nd.
Use the second + picks/prospects to get a RHD.

I'm not saying your wrong, but weaponizong the cap is an advantage of being a rich team.

 

[Crease Master]

I'd respectfully disagree.

Johnsson and Kapanen are good prospects, but neither has shown they are actually better than Hagelin yet.
He is a pretty solid PK guy who can flat out fly.
There is a chance we can add at the TDL to get something, but I'd rather take the asset now and use it for something going into the season.

I.e. Leivo +4th for Hagelin +2nd.
Use the second + picks/prospects to get a RHD.

I'm not saying your wrong, but weaponizong the cap is an advantage of being a rich team.

Weaponizing the cap is not an advantage of being a rich team, it's an advantage of a team with no prospects of competing in the immediate future.

 

[thewave]

The idea that Tavares may have been persuaded to sign here because we spent liberally on Boyle and Plekanec is insane.

Not really. Perhaps Boyle was the reason we got in the PO last year. The only games we won vs Boston Pleks was out against Bergeron. If we miss a PO and we get swept, do we really look as good?

 

[PromisedLand]

Not really. Perhaps Boyle was the reason we got in the PO last year. The only games we won vs Boston Pleks was out against Bergeron. If we miss a PO and we get swept, do we really look as good?

Boyle was not the reason leafs made the playoffs. Tampa/Isles sucking that season due to injuries to their superstars was the reason Leafs made the playoffs.

In 21 games with the Leafs he put up 3 points

 

[IBeL34f]

Weaponizing the cap is not an advantage of being a rich team, it's an advantage of a team with no prospects of competing in the immediate future.

Weaponizing the cap is an advantage to any team that is capable of weaponizing the cap. The question in this case is whether or not the $4M Hagelin would take up is better spent acquiring a draft pick, or acquiring a deadline rental.

You implied in a previous post that cap space would help a team win a Cup, which is inherently false, unless utilized properly. What kind of rental are you looking to acquire at the deadline, what kinds of assets are you expecting to give up to acquire that player, and how can we be so sure that that move would be wiser than taking on a cap dump (that can play) for a future asset of our own?

If Dubas has no intention of spending picks or prospects on $4M of short-term help, that cap space sitting there unused isn't helping us win now or in the future.

 

[luvdahattymatty]

The focus right now for Dubie is very simple. He has been told to focus his attention on improving our defence for next season without getting ripped off.

 

[hector morrison]

No. Because speedy players play best with speedy players. You'd think after watching Kapanen repeatedly zipping a zone ahead of his broken down geezers of linemates would have demonstrated that to people that sticking super fast with super slow doesn't really work all that well.

His speed is an asset but speed alone isn't enough. He had lotsa chances to make that speed pay off last season but didn't capitalize.
Speedy line-mates could help and more experience as well. I geuss the question is ...can he improve or does Hagelins experience make a better fit?

 

[TML1967]

His speed is an asset but speed alone isn't enough. He had lotsa chances to make that speed pay off last season but didn't capitalize.
Speedy line-mates could help and more experience as well. I geuss the question is ...can he improve or does Hagelins experience make a better fit?

Calling him just a speedy player I'd a disservice. He is a 200ft player who forchecks well.
He's biggest issue is he doesn't shoot well, and he probably could be more selfish instead of trying to force passes on 2 on 1s.

I still think him and Kapannen on a 4th line would be a great counter punch line. They won't play a ton at even strength, but will get a decent amount of time on the PK.